Redoubled Determination and Armor Shattered (Medusa vs. Robot)

MetaphorUranium

I encountered multiple Ultrons with redoubled determination in dungeons. No, force of will was NOT present. I used my 4/55 Medusa, got to armor shatter, and Ultron gains around 30-40% despite the armor shatter (I can't remember the exact percentage on the node and don't have a screenshot). I understand the node states that the defender will gain x% more power per debuff on them, and I understand Medusa's ability reads that "this debuff shatters Robot Champions' systems, reducing their ability accuracy and power gain by 100%."

Clearly Kabam's math is to subtract Medusa's -100% power gain first, then add the +30-40% power gain from the debuff called armor shatter. This mathematically can be done either way (-100% then +30-40% vs. +30-40% then -100%), and each way would yield different results (30-40% total power gain in the former, zero power gain in the latter).

Kabam's choice, subtract 100% then add 30-40% for a total 30-40% power gain rate, reminds me of the rules governing "the stack" in MTG. However, it logically makes little sense if we are saying the reason for Medusa's power reduction is a complete shattering of the robot's system. This should be fixed.

CoatHang3r

Or 100% +40% -100% =40%. If they wanted robots to have no chance of gaining power they would’ve used phasing like “robots cannot gain power when armor shattered”.

MetaphorUranium

Well, your overall point is fine, but your math doesn't work. Order of operations would apply here, so 100% plus 40% would be 140%, and then if you subtract 100% of 140% (the new 100%), you get zero. Because 100% of 140 is 140. Percent is a fraction/rate -- or if we want to get technical, percentage is a dimensionless number.

Think about it this way. If let's say Ultron normally gains power at 6% per light hit taken, and the node adds another 2% power to his power gain rate, his power gain rate is now 8% per light hit. If Medusa then reduces his power gain rate by 100%, 100% of his new power gain rate is 8%, which once subtracted from his power gain rate of 8% is 0%. He gains no power.

Now if we did it the way I described in the original post, and let's say Ultron normally gains power at 6% and we first apply Medusa's armor shatter subtracting 100% from his base power gain rate, he goes from 6% to zero. Then, we apply the node buff adding an additional 40% on top of zero, to get a total power gain rate of 40%. That's how he ends up gaining power as Kabam currently has it.

Regardless, your point about how Kabam should have worded Medusa's ability is more what I was trying to get at. I think that's what "their system is shattered" should mean, that she reduces the robot's power by 100% implies what you said -- the robot should not be able to gain power when their systems are down. It doesn't make any sense for Kabam to say robots' systems are down, but then allow the node buff to override the systems being down to provide power. I can agree with you that your wording would make it clearer. I'm simply saying Kabam should word it the way you wrote it, and make the ability actually do that, because that's what's implied with the systems shattered language.

MetaphorUranium

I like your example, but maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but it seems to work against your point? Let me think through it:

You're saying Duped Voodoo has 100% AA when brother Daniel is active, and Aspect of War gives unstoppable which then can't be reduced by She Hulk's slow? Doesn't that exactly mirror what I want Medusa to do, where Medusa would armor shatter and reduce robot power gain by 100%, which I'm arguing the node buff should not be able to override?

Fred_Joeity

It’s not overriding it per se, it’s more like having more to get rid of. It’s like Medusa can get rid of 1 apple, but the node gives it another 40% of an apple. The weirdness of dealing with an additive percent system I suppose.

Fred_Joeity

As clarification, I don’t actually mean apples: It’s just a metaphor

MetaphorUranium

For some reason Kabam forum didn't allow my prior reply to stay up. Must have been too mathematical. My point in response to your first comment was that order of operations would kick in and you'd have Ultron going from, let's say, 6% power gain to 8% due to the node buff, which should then be reduced by armor shatter by 100%. 100% of 8% is 8%. 8 - 8 = 0. Percentages are dimensionless numbers, not dimensional numbers. In other words, they have to refer to something to affect a total.

Fred_Joeity

To make things simpler(?), Kabam has decided that percentages are treated as actual numbers instead of percentages. I’m fine with it, but it leads to strange interactions like this

Fred_Joeity

So really, “percentage” is sort of a misnomer, but it’s easier than saying “the base for the RNG” or something like that.

MetaphorUranium

That's fair. I bet you're right, which is how we get weird descriptions like Proxima's reduction of 200% offensive ability accuracy when blocking........

MetaphorUranium

Fred_Joeity said:

So really, “percentage” is sort of a misnomer, but it’s easier than saying “the base for the RNG” or something like that.

Maybe I think too much. I'll get back to studying for the bar exam.