Issue with Claire Voyant

So Kabam I have to say what an amazing job you have done with her amazing champion
One issue I’ve found with her
When attacking attacking any champion with unstoppable buff-
Using a light or medium attack the buff is nullified, but the champion ur face then attacks u ! So Claire Voyant can’t nullify and continue her combo

I believe reading into her this is a bug and makes a massive difference to her as a viable champ to play -
Please could this be sorted ASAP
Please look at this vid and how amazing she is but have to parry to be safe to remove unstoppable buff

This shows that there is a slight delay In the nullify what causes this issue
On the vid u can see when parried the Hit doesn’t more the champion back at all when nullifying the unstoppable buff
Hope this explains and helps to get her fix as she is amazing

Comments

  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    edited September 2019
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit sorry to bother you guys but i would like to add to this. On Claire's champion spotlight it says 'After she lands an attack' and yet on her own description in game it does not say 'After' it just says Landing an attack....

    That being said this clearly ruins her ability to intercept champions with unstoppable. We all know which champion needs to be intercepted and nullified. 6.2.6 Champion boss. So it totally ruins her a bit there.

    In addition when fighting Annihilus he throws a heavy attack. Its just one swing of an attack. He has unstoppable. I go to punish this heavy attack and it nullifies the unstoppable BUT Annihilus then hits me with me a combo. This is where this interaction doesn't make sense to me. He threw a heavy. I'm not even trying to intercept him. Yet Annihilus gets that advantage to follow up with hits. You can test this yourself or you can skip to 8:02 in this video and he does it immediately at the start of the fight; the very first heavy attack. He also does it again later in the fight.



    Is this working as you intended? I feel like it was done to make her less of a complete powerhouse against 6.2.6 but you overlooked this heavy unstoppable interaction.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    This is how others champions work too. It does not counter other attacks hitting into you already
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    Lormif said:

    This is how others champions work too. It does not counter other attacks hitting into you already

    Are you just not even looking at what happened? He's not hitting into me already when he throws a heavy attack, I evade it and punish him. He's getting hit advantage after a heavy attack. Please actually look at the issue before commenting.

    Also you can't even BLOCK his follow hits. Even if you throw a single medium attack. He will hit you and there is nothing you can do about it. You may as well just say she can only nullify everything but unstoppable and just remove the ability to do so altogether. If thats intended. Which i dont think it is. I think this is just an oversight.
    What does this comment have with mine? I am not even sure. You made 2 comments, I original replied to the first, but yet you come at me for not addressing your second, here goes. Both behaviors are the say way that nullifying unstoppable works in other "on hit" champions, such as capiw. I dueled jcmp 30, a 5/65 Annihilus with my caiw to verify. the only difference in this is the aspect of war node which state that it "prematurely" ends the effect.

    When you attack into someone with unstoppable it does not trigger the disorient/stun state, even if your attack removes the unstoppable as a secondary effect of the hit there is no reason to believe that it would retroactively put that champion into that state. If you can attack him a second time before he hits you after nullifying the buff then that should work.
  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    These are the nullifying abilities of Cap IW and Claire.

    Cap IW - "100% chance to Nullify all Unstoppable Buffs when striking the Opponent."
    Claire - "If the Opponent has 1 or more Buffs, landing or receiving a Light or Medium attack consumes a charge and Nullifies 1 of their Buffs."

    From my understanding, Cap IW can Nullify an unstoppable buff right away. So you can intercept or punish opponents heavy or special while they still have an unstoppable buff active. With Claire, the unstoppable buff doesn't appear to get Nullified as quickly as Caps. I'm not sure how the descriptions of the buffs make up the difference in nullifying. I might need to play around with it more. The video in ilacskills fight against Annihilus seems to show it pretty well, but I think I need a video of cap iw doing that same fight so you can see the difference.
  • RektorRektor Posts: 668 ★★★
    KerayZ said:

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit sorry to bother you guys but i would like to add to this. On Claire's champion spotlight it says 'After she lands an attack' and yet on her own description in game it does not say 'After' it just says Landing an attack....

    That being said this clearly ruins her ability to intercept champions with unstoppable. We all know which champion needs to be intercepted and nullified. 6.2.6 Champion boss. So it totally ruins her a bit there.

    In addition when fighting Annihilus he throws a heavy attack. Its just one swing of an attack. He has unstoppable. I go to punish this heavy attack and it nullifies the unstoppable BUT Annihilus then hits me with me a combo. This is where this interaction doesn't make sense to me. He threw a heavy. I'm not even trying to intercept him. Yet Annihilus gets that advantage to follow up with hits. You can test this yourself or you can skip to 8:02 in this video and he does it immediately at the start of the fight; the very first heavy attack. He also does it again later in the fight.



    Is this working as you intended? I feel like it was done to make her less of a complete powerhouse against 6.2.6 but you overlooked this heavy unstoppable interaction.

    There is something unique to annihulus’ first unstoppable. Even CapIW who can hit through eveeyone’s unstoppable when he has a kinetic charge cannot hit through the first one from annihulus. Same thing that happens at 8:02 in your vid.

    Don’t know if that’s intended or not. Doesn’t say anywhere that annihulus should be able to do that.

    It also doesn’t make sense that Claire can hit them to nullify unstoppable and then after it’s nullified she gets hit by them. Hitting anyone with a light or medium means you are technically in a combo. How can someone interrupt your combo to hit you when the only means by which they could hit you (unstoppable) has already been nullified?
  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    edited September 2019
    Okay so I was able to do some testing against The Champion with both Claire and Cap IW to show the difference in the Nullify of the Unstoppable. As you can see in the videos, Cap IW pushes back The Champion when he is Unstoppable since he Nullified the buff. Claire, on the other hand, does NOT push back The Champion when he is Unstoppable. Seems to be some interaction difference that I'm not seeing in the description.

    Cap IW pushing back The Champion after Nullify

    Claire Voyant NOT pushing back The Champion after Nullify
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    Rektor said:

    Opponents are maintaining their unstoppable abilities against Claire even after their unstoppable buff has been nullified.

    Seems like a bug.

    Annihulus maintains his unstoppable against everyone in the same manner, even against champs like CapIW who were designed and intended to hit through unstoppable and can do so against everyone else. It’s almost as if his unstoppable cannot be nullified, which is found nowhere in his abilities page.

    Also seems like a bug.

    Would be nice to see a hotfix for both interactions.

    In the case of annihulus it is not a bug, it is an interaction in his character sheet. If a buff (unstoppable) is to be nullified his control rod is removed instead. He only gets unstoppable if his control rod is up (with the exception of the .9 second one when you dash back while stiffled.)
  • RektorRektor Posts: 668 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Rektor said:

    Opponents are maintaining their unstoppable abilities against Claire even after their unstoppable buff has been nullified.

    Seems like a bug.

    Annihulus maintains his unstoppable against everyone in the same manner, even against champs like CapIW who were designed and intended to hit through unstoppable and can do so against everyone else. It’s almost as if his unstoppable cannot be nullified, which is found nowhere in his abilities page.

    Also seems like a bug.

    Would be nice to see a hotfix for both interactions.

    In the case of annihulus it is not a bug, it is an interaction in his character sheet. If a buff (unstoppable) is to be nullified his control rod is removed instead. He only gets unstoppable if his control rod is up (with the exception of the .9 second one when you dash back while stiffled.)
    His unstoppable should be nullified by CapIW and then the cosmic rod should be removed. Instead, CapIW hits the unstoppable and it is not nullified at all.

    That would be a bug. Nowhere in Annihulus’ abilities does it say that you cannot nullify his unstoppable.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    Rektor said:

    Lormif said:

    Rektor said:

    Opponents are maintaining their unstoppable abilities against Claire even after their unstoppable buff has been nullified.

    Seems like a bug.

    Annihulus maintains his unstoppable against everyone in the same manner, even against champs like CapIW who were designed and intended to hit through unstoppable and can do so against everyone else. It’s almost as if his unstoppable cannot be nullified, which is found nowhere in his abilities page.

    Also seems like a bug.

    Would be nice to see a hotfix for both interactions.

    In the case of annihulus it is not a bug, it is an interaction in his character sheet. If a buff (unstoppable) is to be nullified his control rod is removed instead. He only gets unstoppable if his control rod is up (with the exception of the .9 second one when you dash back while stiffled.)
    His unstoppable should be nullified by CapIW and then the cosmic rod should be removed. Instead, CapIW hits the unstoppable and it is not nullified at all.

    That would be a bug. Nowhere in Annihulus’ abilities does it say that you cannot nullify his unstoppable.
    Actually it does:
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/131529/champion-spotlight-annihilus/p1
    Whenever any Buff would be removed by a Nullify, Fate Seal, or Stagger, the effect is Purified and the Cosmic Control Rod is removed for 10 seconds.

    It says that if the unstoppable would be nullified the nullify is purified and the rod is removed instead.

    You hit into his attack, your attack goes the nullify unstoppable, the control rod says nope and purifies the nullify (stopping it)

    If the control rod is down then that is another story, but that should only happen in the case of a backdraft intercept due to how his unstoppable works.

  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    I am wrong about how he gets his unstoppable, it is the dashing back always, I was thinking it was the obliterating strike, but it is not. So if he gets it and the rod is down on timer you should be able to nullify properly, but if the rod is up you cannot.
  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?
  • RektorRektor Posts: 668 ★★★
    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    Not sure, but would like someone to explain how an opponent can interrupt her combo to hit her when the only means by which they could hit her (unstoppable) has already been nullified.

    They are maintaining unstoppable abilities while no longer having an unstoppable buff.
  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    Rektor said:

    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    Not sure, but would like someone to explain how an opponent can interrupt her combo to hit her when the only means by which they could hit her (unstoppable) has already been nullified.

    They are maintaining unstoppable abilities while no longer having an unstoppable buff.
    I can only guess that it might have to do with timing. Cap IW nullifies the unstoppable and seems pretty straight forward. Claire, on the other hand, nullifies ONE buff with a hit so if there are multiple buffs, it has to determine which of the buffs to remove. I'd guess determining which one to remove has something to do with it, but that's just me making a guess.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    This has to be bugged.
  • BendyBendy Posts: 868 ★★★
    I think if u test sw on any unstoppable she dont get pushed back if she nullify but with claire she does get pushed back either issue with claire or issue with nullify
  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    are we sure? i mean....you can see it. the unstoppable is gone and then he's following up after the heavy with a combo. if its gone how does he get this fast attack with a combo? you should at least be allowed to block it.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    KerayZ said:

    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    are we sure? i mean....you can see it. the unstoppable is gone and then he's following up after the heavy with a combo. if its gone how does he get this fast attack with a combo? you should at least be allowed to block it.
    Very, if you look at the video there is 2 times this comes into play, 8:25 and 9:24

    At 8:25 in the video the nullify removes the rod leaving the unstoppable as his ability says.

    9:24 is the heavy I believe you are talking about. You will note here if you slow it down to 25% speed the unstobble is not nullified, it expires, and there is good reason for that, your CV has no Clairvoyance Charges left as you can see in this image:


  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    KerayZ said:

    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    are we sure? i mean....you can see it. the unstoppable is gone and then he's following up after the heavy with a combo. if its gone how does he get this fast attack with a combo? you should at least be allowed to block it.
    I saw two times where ilacskills got hit because of the unstoppable. The first time was because of annihilus having that cosmic rod taking the nullify and the reason unstoppable got removed so fast, is because Claire ALSO has a chance to nullify when SHE is hit. It happened so fast (have to really look closely) that it appears both the unstoppable and cosmic rod were removed at the same time.

    As for the 2nd time he got hit, he didn't nullify it because he didn't have any charges (which you need to nullify). It went away because it expired, not because it was nullified.
  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    edited September 2019
    Kyliente said:

    KerayZ said:

    Kyliente said:

    Annihilus one doesn't sound like a bug after reading the FULL description of his abilities.

    Is anyone able to provide input on why Claire's nullify of unstoppable buffs doesn't push them back as Cap IW does?

    are we sure? i mean....you can see it. the unstoppable is gone and then he's following up after the heavy with a combo. if its gone how does he get this fast attack with a combo? you should at least be allowed to block it.
    I saw two times where ilacskills got hit because of the unstoppable. The first time was because of annihilus having that cosmic rod taking the nullify and the reason unstoppable got removed so fast, is because Claire ALSO has a chance to nullify when SHE is hit. It happened so fast (have to really look closely) that it appears both the unstoppable and cosmic rod were removed at the same time.

    As for the 2nd time he got hit, he didn't nullify it because he didn't have any charges (which you need to nullify). It went away because it expired, not because it was nullified.

    ooooo i really need to rewatch this now in slowmo. thats interesting! lemme look. the first time is the start of the fight with the very first heavy attack.

    EDIT: @Kyliente @lormif Yep youre right and wrong. It happens so fast. The first nullify shuts off the rod but then the unstoppable just runs out. It doesnt get nullified by hitting me or anything. Good catch.

    So now that that is settled what do yas think? Do you think Claire shouldn't be allowed to intercept Juggernaut? I got footage of her failing to do that too.
  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    ok so here yas go. didnt feel like making a whole new video when folks with claire know about it. but for you guys and kabam heres a quick clip showing the problem first hand. Thanks those clearing up the annihilus stuff btw. appreciate that. happens so fast its hard to see until ya slow it all down.

  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    KerayZ said:

    ok so here yas go. didnt feel like making a whole new video when folks with claire know about it. but for you guys and kabam heres a quick clip showing the problem first hand. Thanks those clearing up the annihilus stuff btw. appreciate that. happens so fast its hard to see until ya slow it all down.

    I 100% agree with this and I posted two videos (one with capiw and one with claire) against the champions unstoppable. There is a difference in the interaction between capiw nullify unstoppable vs claire nullify unstoppably. I'd like someone to clarify why they are different as I'm trouble seeing that in the descriptions of either. From reading it, I'd assume they would work the same but clearly are not.
  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    Kyliente said:

    KerayZ said:

    ok so here yas go. didnt feel like making a whole new video when folks with claire know about it. but for you guys and kabam heres a quick clip showing the problem first hand. Thanks those clearing up the annihilus stuff btw. appreciate that. happens so fast its hard to see until ya slow it all down.

    I 100% agree with this and I posted two videos (one with capiw and one with claire) against the champions unstoppable. There is a difference in the interaction between capiw nullify unstoppable vs claire nullify unstoppably. I'd like someone to clarify why they are different as I'm trouble seeing that in the descriptions of either. From reading it, I'd assume they would work the same but clearly are not.
    the only difference is that in her "champion spotlight" it says she nullifies AFTER she lands an attack. it does not state this in the game description though. which is odd.

    the exact quote for champion spotlight
    "After landing or receiving a Light or Medium attack and the Opponent has 1 or more Buffs, a charge is consumed and 1 Buff is Nullified."

    the game description says
    "if the opponent has 1 or more Buffs, landing or receiving a Light or Medium attack consumes a charge and Nullifies 1 of their Buffs."

    Honestly why bother having it nullify unstoppable at all if it wont work as normal? Just seems this was done as a mistake or to protect the 6.2.6 champion boss.

    Luckily the sp2 buff immunity still prevents unstoppables from triggering but doesnt help when you are skilled with intercepts. or as you've already seen in this thread prime examples.

    Scarlett Witch can do it just fine with her nullify can't she? Correct me if i'm wrong.
  • KylienteKyliente Posts: 26
    Ugh! So it's an error with the description in-game. Thanks for pointing that out! Looks like the sp2 buff immunity is the safe way.
  • KerayZKerayZ Posts: 177 ★★
    Kyliente said:

    Ugh! So it's an error with the description in-game. Thanks for pointing that out! Looks like the sp2 buff immunity is the safe way.

    well maybe, maybe not. they still havent responded. all i seen so far was a support ticket response that said its intentional. whether or not thats true is up to the developer team to respond with.
  • RoninManRoninMan Posts: 748 ★★★★
    Lormif said:

    KerayZ said:

    Lormif said:

    This is how others champions work too. It does not counter other attacks hitting into you already

    Are you just not even looking at what happened? He's not hitting into me already when he throws a heavy attack, I evade it and punish him. He's getting hit advantage after a heavy attack. Please actually look at the issue before commenting.

    Also you can't even BLOCK his follow hits. Even if you throw a single medium attack. He will hit you and there is nothing you can do about it. You may as well just say she can only nullify everything but unstoppable and just remove the ability to do so altogether. If thats intended. Which i dont think it is. I think this is just an oversight.
    What does this comment have with mine? I am not even sure. You made 2 comments, I original replied to the first, but yet you come at me for not addressing your second, here goes. Both behaviors are the say way that nullifying unstoppable works in other "on hit" champions, such as capiw. I dueled jcmp 30, a 5/65 Annihilus with my caiw to verify. the only difference in this is the aspect of war node which state that it "prematurely" ends the effect.

    When you attack into someone with unstoppable it does not trigger the disorient/stun state, even if your attack removes the unstoppable as a secondary effect of the hit there is no reason to believe that it would retroactively put that champion into that state. If you can attack him a second time before he hits you after nullifying the buff then that should work.
    As someone who uses CAIW on a regular basis, this is false. Every time I’ve used him against Jugg and UC with unstoppable, they’ve been staggered when you nullify their unstoppable and you can continue to finish your combo.
  • DJSergyDJSergy Posts: 168 ★★
    Can a mod please respond to this? @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious

    This definitely looks like a bug, both Cap IW and Claire nullify the opponent unstoppable buff when attacking them, so they both should work the same way unless we are missing something
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,523 ★★★★★
    There you go.

    Rotelly said:

    I think there is an issue with her nullify against unstoppable buffs, even after she nullifies unstoppable the opponent with a light or medium hit the opponent is able to counter as if he is still unstoppable

    I checked with out team and was able to find some info on this. The intention of Claire's Nullify ability is to Nullify an effect the Opponent would gain after Claire lands an attack. EG: Fury granted when struck.

    She is not supposed to have the ability to safely remove Unstoppable Buffs if they are already preexisting; her loop is more about putting on Buff Immunity to prevent Buffs to begin with. Immediately removing Unstoppable safely is a powerful mechanic and not one that Claire is intended to have. Given the feedback we've received about this, we are going to be working on updating the description of this ability to be more clear about how this ability is intended to work and that it works differently from Champions who are intended to be able to remove an existing Unstoppable Buff safely.
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