I think at this point all we can do is wait for the changes to be announced. KABAM is clearly not interesting in responding to us about this at the moment and since we dont know what the exact nerf will be, we can only assume things. Corporate white knights will always defend kabam so there is no point arguing with them. Let kabam announce the nerf and we'll see if kabam is scamming the players or actually balancing the game. If kabam truly wants to balance the game then cull will be rebalaced instead of being nerfed. If his damage is reduced a bit but his block prof. is increased then it's a fair trade and that would be a proper rebalance. But if they straight up nerf his damage then at that point kabam is just scamming people by selling solid champs and then changing them so people would be more enticed to spend more money on newer OP champs they release at that point in time.
What I've been trying to say though I'm probably labelled a corporate white knight. When all I have been saying is wait for further announcements before you pick up the pitch fork. I certainly wouldn't stop ranking champs out of fear that is blowing this out of proportion.
I'm just saying wait. It makes sense because we don't know the degree of change. I don't think that is unreasonable to hold, Cull is not a game changing champ for end game content right now. So, why not execute a little patience because he will change for good or for bad.
Also, he has great prestige so if that's your reason for the rank up I say go ahead but the person involved said nothing about prestige.
Spent years consistently grinding milestones and the best shards so with enough pulls I could reasonably pull whoever I wanted over the long run.
For me this game was extremely momentum based. Success produced more success and more motivation. Blew past all my former alliance mates trying to chase the dream. It was sink or swim, so in a way the whole operation was flimsy. I was always walking a tightrope of go-go-go or rage quitting. Dodged many monkey wrenches on the way to my goals but after a while it was death due to 1000 cuts that did me in, not burn out.
You don't want to de-incentivize the community.
Seen it first hand many times. Players on the best teams who had zero reason to quit on paper were always teetering on the edge of retirement. Our rosters are the only things we can control. You don't want to remove that sense of control and replace it with helplessness.
We can talk about the TOS all day from a safe distance and how we don't own anything. That's absolutely right. But in practice it's something entirely different. Players are spending the equivalent of a high end sports car on this stuff, so it's not a silly change in a silly video game.
Judging from the timing of Colossus and OML bug which has taken 6 months from the announcement, it seems like the new champions won't be in their final balanced state for more than 9 months!
Does anyone at Kabam see the ridiculousness of this timeline?
KT1 posted a video recently about ranking fear and he made a good point. By the time they actually implement any champ balances (6 months at a minimum but mostly likely more time then that) most champs aren't that useful anymore. Defenders get figured out and Kabam creates new champs/nodes/content to counter them so 6-9 months is about as long as most champs are useful. Something I didn't think about but outside of a few champs it's pretty true.
Judging from the timing of Colossus and OML bug which has taken 6 months from the announcement, it seems like the new champions won't be in their final balanced state for more than 9 months!
Does anyone at Kabam see the ridiculousness of this timeline?
KT1 posted a video recently about ranking fear and he made a good point. By the time they actually implement any champ balances (6 months at a minimum but mostly likely more time then that) most champs aren't that useful anymore. Defenders get figured out and Kabam creates new champs/nodes/content to counter them so 6-9 months is about as long as most champs are useful. Something I didn't think about but outside of a few champs it's pretty true.
I disagree with KT1 to a certain degree, especially when it comes to offensive champions but he did make an excellent point regarding defenders and waiting for the change.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
Cull is not as good as you guys think. Medusa, Hyperion, and especially Corvus are way better than Cull. I was about to make the mistake of taking him to R2 but Kabam stopped me from doing that because of the re-Balancing. THANK YOU KABAM. Now I have Hyperion and Corvus at R5 and I cannot be happier. Thats 4 T5B for two champs, instead of 3 T5B for one un-duped, no immunity, and bad block proficiency champ, who just hits hard. KT1 has an excellent point here concerning Cull. "Cull Obsidian - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly! - Champion review!" Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rfkqtTGlk
It's not really difficult for us to discern what they're looking at. They said Damage. What is it about Cull's Damage that stands out from others? What can he do within the span of a Fight that others can't? Data isn't just a term they threw in there. If they said they looked at internal statistics, that's exactly what they did. As for specifics, I'm not sure what that will change on our end. You can try to dodge anything that can potentially be changed, but since anything and everything has always been up for review and potential revision, I'd rather play the game. It isn't a precedent when they've had the ability to revise and balance things since the game began. Which is a good thing. If they hadn't reassessed and updated things up until now, the game would have been in shambles long ago.
Has MCOC given any specific, clear & confirmed updated "rebalancing" information on Cull? I recently got him as a 6* but very hesitant to R2 him or even RUp others for synergies (5* GHulk). Not a fan of waiting 6-9 months to be confident whether I got lucky on a pull or whether to invest resources to RUp a new champ. This vague "rebalancing": whether nerf, buff or true balance is really taking some of the enjoyment out of playing MCOC personally.
Has MCOC given any specific, clear & confirmed updated "rebalancing" information on Cull? I recently got him as a 6* but very hesitant to R2 him or even RUp others for synergies (5* GHulk). Not a fan of waiting 6-9 months to be confident whether I got lucky on a pull or whether to invest resources to RUp a new champ. This vague "rebalancing": whether nerf, buff or true balance is really taking some of the enjoyment out of playing MCOC personally.
Nope. They've been almost entirely silent on this topic.
All I’m going to say is : when you get a new champion that has mega hype abuse the **** out of it till he’s “balanced” also with the whole RDT thing we should have sig stones also as I was saving my cosmic stones for months till I pulled a worthy champ and along cane cull so I pumped 120 stones into him and now he’s getting changed and I know damn well I’m not the only one who’s done this. I don’t like the road this game is going down it’s a long slippery slope downhill from here
That's a shame you can't even enjoy that pull. I wouldn't take him past r3 at this point.
You couldn't be more wrong. I played him at rank 4, and immediately made him my third rank 5 champ. I'm going to use these two months to 100% Variant 2, and if the nerf makes him substandard, I will have recouped enough rankup materials from the event that it won't matter (a 4-5 gem, 3-4 gem, and 3 2015 3-4 gems, plus the other goodies).
I've been running this team: Cull Ebony Maw (crit boost for the first 20 seconds, plus a bonus charge for KO during rout) Cap IW (crit boost x2) Cap Marvel (increased cosmic buff duration via Cap IW synergy) Gladiator Hulk (grants fury to Cull on specials, longer against heroes)
Obviously, you can't do it for poison or bleed, but I've cleared 7 paths in the past two days after not clearing any variant content, 6.2, or LOL. Hit 1-2 heavies for armor break at the start of the fight. Trigger rout. Trigger SP1 for combo shield and just go wreck everything. I also can't imagine a better counter for that Adaptoid with the ridiculous evade, since Cull is XL and gets true accuracy with charges accrued. Edit: and this is unduped btw.
That's a shame you can't even enjoy that pull. I wouldn't take him past r3 at this point.
You couldn't be more wrong. I played him at rank 4, and immediately made him my third rank 5 champ. I'm going to use these two months to 100% Variant 2, and if the nerf makes him substandard, I will have recouped enough rankup materials from the event that it won't matter (a 4-5 gem, 3-4 gem, and 3 2015 3-4 gems, plus the other goodies).
I've been running this team: Cull Ebony Maw (crit boost for the first 20 seconds, plus a bonus charge for KO during rout) Cap IW (crit boost x2) Cap Marvel (increased cosmic buff duration via Cap IW synergy) Gladiator Hulk (grants fury to Cull on specials, longer against heroes)
Obviously, you can't do it for poison or bleed, but I've cleared 7 paths in the past two days after not clearing any variant content, 6.2, or LOL. Hit 1-2 heavies for armor break at the start of the fight. Trigger rout. Trigger SP1 for combo shield and just go wreck everything. I also can't imagine a better counter for that Adaptoid with the ridiculous evade, since Cull is XL and gets true accuracy with charges accrued. Edit: and this is unduped btw.
Well I have a diverse roster and Cull wouldn't even make my rank 5 list. I don't want to constantly dump potions into a champ for end game content. Plus I've already beat all the variants. I never said Cull is a terrible champion, I'm saying the uncertainty of what he'll be after the update will take the enjoyment out of playing him. If you find him useful and you clearly do, congratulations.
That's a shame you can't even enjoy that pull. I wouldn't take him past r3 at this point.
You couldn't be more wrong. I played him at rank 4, and immediately made him my third rank 5 champ. I'm going to use these two months to 100% Variant 2, and if the nerf makes him substandard, I will have recouped enough rankup materials from the event that it won't matter (a 4-5 gem, 3-4 gem, and 3 2015 3-4 gems, plus the other goodies).
I've been running this team: Cull Ebony Maw (crit boost for the first 20 seconds, plus a bonus charge for KO during rout) Cap IW (crit boost x2) Cap Marvel (increased cosmic buff duration via Cap IW synergy) Gladiator Hulk (grants fury to Cull on specials, longer against heroes)
Obviously, you can't do it for poison or bleed, but I've cleared 7 paths in the past two days after not clearing any variant content, 6.2, or LOL. Hit 1-2 heavies for armor break at the start of the fight. Trigger rout. Trigger SP1 for combo shield and just go wreck everything. I also can't imagine a better counter for that Adaptoid with the ridiculous evade, since Cull is XL and gets true accuracy with charges accrued. Edit: and this is unduped btw.
Clearing V2 to recover some stuff?? that do not make any sense.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
These aren't reworks in the formal sense from what I understand. They're minor balances. Older Champs will require more of a rework like Colossus and OML. They're quite intensive, and I suspect preventing that much work is part of the reason they're revisiting newer ones to fill in any gaps and tweak any noticeable issues.
Since when did minor anything take six months to implement? Especially if you're just addressing damage. You take away Cull's armor breaks and that is a totally different champion. Minor in my opinion will be taking his attack down a couple hundred points, they might even remove his the potency of his sig ability which causes him to have incredible burst damage, who knows.
If the only thing on their plate was this, I'm sure it wouldn't take as long. Letting us know ahead of time is just being upfront. Just about everything in the game has a process before it makes it's way to our hands.
I disagree with them being upfront due to Cull being in the basic during the announcement but we've gone back and forth before and neither one of our minds will be changed at this point.
And as you said data takes time to collect. We agree on that so since the data has been collected already what would justify the need to actually implement the changes in 6 months if it is truly minor. I would say Namor had minor updates due to him being able to defeat map 7 Thanos in one shot and they implemented the change in about 4 days. It took a day to remove the interaction from Namor and 4 more days to fix the bugs that came with the first update.
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Also, he has great prestige so if that's your reason for the rank up I say go ahead but the person involved said nothing about prestige.
Spent years consistently grinding milestones and the best shards so with enough pulls I could reasonably pull whoever I wanted over the long run.
For me this game was extremely momentum based. Success produced more success and more motivation. Blew past all my former alliance mates trying to chase the dream. It was sink or swim, so in a way the whole operation was flimsy. I was always walking a tightrope of go-go-go or rage quitting. Dodged many monkey wrenches on the way to my goals but after a while it was death due to 1000 cuts that did me in, not burn out.
You don't want to de-incentivize the community.
Seen it first hand many times. Players on the best teams who had zero reason to quit on paper were always teetering on the edge of retirement. Our rosters are the only things we can control. You don't want to remove that sense of control and replace it with helplessness.
We can talk about the TOS all day from a safe distance and how we don't own anything. That's absolutely right. But in practice it's something entirely different. Players are spending the equivalent of a high end sports car on this stuff, so it's not a silly change in a silly video game.
THANK YOU KABAM.
Now I have Hyperion and Corvus at R5 and I cannot be happier. Thats 4 T5B for two champs, instead of 3 T5B for one un-duped, no immunity, and bad block proficiency champ, who just hits hard.
KT1 has an excellent point here concerning Cull. "Cull Obsidian - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly! - Champion review!"
Watch this:
Data isn't just a term they threw in there. If they said they looked at internal statistics, that's exactly what they did. As for specifics, I'm not sure what that will change on our end. You can try to dodge anything that can potentially be changed, but since anything and everything has always been up for review and potential revision, I'd rather play the game. It isn't a precedent when they've had the ability to revise and balance things since the game began. Which is a good thing. If they hadn't reassessed and updated things up until now, the game would have been in shambles long ago.
I've been running this team:
Cull
Ebony Maw (crit boost for the first 20 seconds, plus a bonus charge for KO during rout)
Cap IW (crit boost x2)
Cap Marvel (increased cosmic buff duration via Cap IW synergy)
Gladiator Hulk (grants fury to Cull on specials, longer against heroes)
Obviously, you can't do it for poison or bleed, but I've cleared 7 paths in the past two days after not clearing any variant content, 6.2, or LOL. Hit 1-2 heavies for armor break at the start of the fight. Trigger rout. Trigger SP1 for combo shield and just go wreck everything. I also can't imagine a better counter for that Adaptoid with the ridiculous evade, since Cull is XL and gets true accuracy with charges accrued. Edit: and this is unduped btw.
And as you said data takes time to collect. We agree on that so since the data has been collected already what would justify the need to actually implement the changes in 6 months if it is truly minor. I would say Namor had minor updates due to him being able to defeat map 7 Thanos in one shot and they implemented the change in about 4 days. It took a day to remove the interaction from Namor and 4 more days to fix the bugs that came with the first update.