Fixing Characters That Don't Make Sense

Below are some suggestions for character fixes. This is not focusing on characters who are "overpowered," but rather, characters who's class or abilities do not make much sense.

Character: Iceman
Fix: Immunity to Incinerate
Reasoning: Why is someone covered in ice immune to incinerate? This makes absolutely no sense in any way. Fire melts ice...I don't think this one needs much explaining.

Character: Green Goblin
Fix: Class and Regen
Reasoning: There are two problems with Goblin. The first is that he should be science class rather than tech. The main difference between science and tech characters as a whole is that tech characters would not be the same without their technology, while science classes get their major abilities from some scientific feat. For example, if you removed Iron Man's armor or Star Lord's enhancements, they would basically be an average human. Green Goblin's abilities come from a scientific serum. Take away his glider, gun, and bombs, and he is still super strong with enhanced reflexes, and is criminally insane, which is what makes him so dangerous. These abilities come entirely from a serum that is inseparable from the character.

The second issue with Goblin is his regeneration ability. There are plenty of other characters who, like Goblin, heal much faster than average humans due to their enhancements. Spider-Man and Captain America are among these characters. The regeneration ability, however, should be restricted to characters who can meaningfully heal in the midst of combat to the point where it would make a realistic difference. Goblin has enhanced healing, but if you stabbed him through the arm, he would not heal during the fight in the same sense that Wolverine/X-23 do. In other words, his wounds do not close immediately.

Character: Magneto
Fix: Magnetism not affecting certain characters
Reasoning: There are many characters who should be affected by Magneto's magnetism that simply aren't. All of the characters I will list primarily use metal as a part of their armor or weapons: Deadpool, Deadpool X-force, Gwenpool, Punisher, Punisher 2099, Star Lord, Rocket Raccoon, Drax, Archangel, Electro, Antman. If I missed anyone (or incorrectly included anyone who is already affected) please let me know. I am unsure of whether Green Goblin or Dr. Octopus are magnetized but they certainly should be if they aren't already.

Character: Falcon, Crossbones
Fix: Should be Tech
Reasoning: As stated earlier, tech characters are those who, without their technical enhancements, would not be able to fight as they do with them. Take away Falcon's armor, wings, and Redwing drone, and he is a normal soldier. Falcon's wings are the reason he is, well, Falcon. What is he without them? He should absolutely be classified as tech. This exact argument could also be made for Crossbones and Antman. Crossbones needs his suit to fight, otherwise he is just a soldier.

Character: Rocket Raccoon
Fix: Should be science
Reasoning: Following the above logic that science characters are inseparable from their augments, Rocket Raccoon should be classed as science rather than tech. His is a normal raccoon that has been augmented through experimentation, giving him the abilities to walk upright, talk, and wield weapons.

Character: Various
Fix: Reclassification
Reasoning: I'm sure no one wants to keep reading about the logic for character class so I will keep this one short and sweet. Yondu is alien, and there's no way around that. He should be cosmic. Agent Venom should also be cosmic, matching Symbiote Spider-Man, Venom, and Carnage. The three Inhumans: Quake, Karnak, and Black Bolt, all get their powers from the same Terrigen mist resulting from alien experimentation. Whether or not this is classified as cosmic or science (I would personally pick cosmic), they should all share the same class.

Thank you all for reading this post! I am open to more suggestions, so if you can think of something I have missed, or disagree with entirely, feel free to add it in your reply! Just make sure you back up your argument with some logic.

Comments

Sungj

You made some mistakes on character backstories regarding their classification, first off karnak is best suited for skill since he actually has not undergone the terrigen mist transformation the other inhumans have most of his powers come from intense training and his base physiology. 2, yes rocket was a science experiment but since his game model is based of the GOTG movie version of the character most of his anthropomorphic qualities along with fighting style are all based off tech. Without the tech he would not be a playable character so tech is best suited for him. Green goblin is an arguable one but if you look at his game design it makes a lot of sense that he is tech. His glider is how he moves, his specials are all tech and a lot of his abilities come from his tech so science doesn't suit the in game version of the character as well. Crossbones while he does wear a suit his suit isn't a super techy suit like iron man it is basically just body armor with hydraulic gauntlets it takes no computer system or even any complicated technology to function most of his fighting style and character is that of a soldier just with better equipment so skill is best suited to him. In regards to iceman yes fire melts ice due to its energy being much higher than the subtraction of heat from ice but iceman has the ability to lower thermal energy around him basically rendering most fire and incinerate abilities useless by sucking all the energy from them. A couple of the characters you mention as not being magnetized are actually effected by magnetos ability such as gwenpool and archangel.

People have to come to terms with the fact that the champions in this game are just interpretations of their respective character bases and don't need have have 100% accurate abilities and classes. If all champions were accurate to their characters this game would not exist or would be unnecessarily complicated. So many champions could fit into multiple classes like magik being a mutant but having mystical abilities. If characters were faithful to their comic abilities like GG regen so many character would be over powered and have too many abilities to make them reasonably playable for example psylocke in the game has power control mechanics and bits of energy blasts on her sp2 and sp3, her actual character has telekenesis, astral projectiom, teleportation and the creation of telepathic illusions, it would be a nightmare to try to accurately create these abilities so they made her a power control champion a ability that doesn't make sense outside the game since power for specials is not a concept in comics. The game is balancing out characters so we have a good medium of different classes and abilities to make the game interesting to play

SlyCat42

Hmmm Idk what to say...

I mostly agree with you, but on the other hand I don't think all of these changes are necessary.

I have pretty strong thoughts about Green Goblin, mostly because he's been dissed on, but is actually really good (just not god tier). However, I have to admit he SHOULD be science, but at the same time I wouldn't take away his regen. He DOES have an increased healing factor which they actually do mention in canon and his regen really helps in game (if anything I would love it if they buffed his regen to work all the time and then just increase when he takes damage).

There are multiple things they could do to make Goblin a better character, but I don't think taking away his regen is the best route to take. It's a great selling point for the character.

So, like I feel where you are coming from, and Kabaam could definitely update a few champs (especially the defensive walls in this game, they are all bad ex Luke Cage, Colossus, Hulk Buster) I also feel like this would be taking it a bit too far.

Ipitydafoo

@Sungj You are correct about Karnak.

I fail to see how Iceman's ability to lower the thermal energy around him would actually make him immune to the incineration abilities of super-powerful opponents such as Phoenix and Hyperion. Yes, he can cool the air around him, but Phoenix can set it all ablaze in the same way.

I am unwilling to relent on Goblin. His powers come from a scientific serum, and without it, he wouldn't even be riding that glider. Regarding his regen, there are numerous characters in the Marvel Universe with some sort of accelerated healing or "healing factor." This does not, however, mean that they all can regenerate instantaneously during a fight. If you break Goblin's bones, they might heal in a few hours, but it's not going to happen in a meaningful way that can impact him during a battle. Giving Goblin regeneration is the same as giving it to Hulk, Abomination, Spider-Man, or Captain America.

As far as Crossbones and Rocket go, I respectfully disagree but I can see an argument on both sides.

Obviously, yes, this is a game, and class relationships and balance are an important part of making it playable. It is equally as important, however, when using characters that already exist in comic book lore, that they be made right.

Cavalier

Ipitydafoo wrote: »

Character: Iceman
Fix: Immunity to Incinerate
Reasoning: Why is someone covered in ice immune to incinerate? This makes absolutely no sense in any way. Fire melts ice...I don't think this one needs much explaining.

Take some ice and hold it over fire and ask your self. Did the ice catch on fire at any point, or did it turn to water. Water puts out fire. Ice can't burn or catch on fire, so unless you have the flame always going from another source he should be immune. It would make more sense to have fire attacks give him armor break .

Sungj

Ipitydafoo wrote: »

@Sungj You are correct about Karnak.

I fail to see how Iceman's ability to lower the thermal energy around him would actually make him immune to the incineration abilities of super-powerful opponents such as Phoenix and Hyperion. Yes, he can cool the air around him, but Phoenix can set it all ablaze in the same way.

I am unwilling to relent on Goblin. His powers come from a scientific serum, and without it, he wouldn't even be riding that glider. Regarding his regen, there are numerous characters in the Marvel Universe with some sort of accelerated healing or "healing factor." This does not, however, mean that they all can regenerate instantaneously during a fight. If you break Goblin's bones, they might heal in a few hours, but it's not going to happen in a meaningful way that can impact him during a battle. Giving Goblin regeneration is the same as giving it to Hulk, Abomination, Spider-Man, or Captain America.

As far as Crossbones and Rocket go, I respectfully disagree but I can see an argument on both sides.

Obviously, yes, this is a game, and class relationships and balance are an important part of making it playable. It is equally as important, however, when using characters that already exist in comic book lore, that they be made right.

The reason his ability to lower thermal energy makes him resistance to heat based abilities is that heat needs energy and near him that heat loses its energy and dissipates and I didn't mention this but iceman also has an ability to control chemical reaction not just lower thermal energy so he can stop people from using heat powers in the first place like hyperion. Yes there phoenix's fire because it is comic firecould burn him but every other champion that incernates iceman would not be effected by their abilities. Green goblin I get the argument but if you look at his game design none of his animations and very few of his abilities actually have anything to do with their serum based abilities and instead all are based on his technology,he can ride his glider without the serum. Making characters right is important but frankly it is impossible to make all character right and accurate, hulk can one of the most powerful regeneration abilities in comics yet in game he doesnt have regen at all, rogue's main power is to absorb someone else's abilities yet she can't do this in game, ghost rider has hellfire and is literally on fire but can't incinerate, venom is not effected to spider mans spidey sense so he shouldn't evade against venom, storm can control all weather but in game she only uses lightning and so much more. Making character right is not that important considering this is a game where black widow is blocking punches from the hulk and thanos. This is kabams interpretation of characters so we just have to go along with it ,.

unknown

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I_am_Groot

I'm agree with you, your arguments make sense, more that the contra arguments, but I doubt they change it, especially because there are people supporting the actual way.

I'm not interested in long discussions but I'll reply some arguments summarized as:

"Ice kill the Fire unless you have an abundant source of Heat"

Well, that is exact in both ways, Fire kill the Ice unless you have an abundant source of Cold.
But Thermodynamic tell us that the second phrase would have priority because in fact you cannot have a Cold source if you aren't Heating more something else.

About the Iceman's physics/chemicals rules manipulations cannot work against Hyperion because he's from another Universe and ruled by that physics laws (despite he's no longer in that Universe and it was in fact destroyed) and it's the why he has superpowers in the "other champs Universe".