Nerfing Warlock w/ the 25.0 update ???

Jack0312

Hey Kabam,

What's going on with Warlock ?
In your changelog you mentionned :

"Fixed an issue where Warlock's Techno-Organic virus was decreasing Defensive Ability Accuracy"

...

But, just a simple question. What are "OFFENSIVE" or "DEFENSIVE" abilities ?
We don't even have a list !

For example, "rock shield" of Korg is defensive BUT it triggers direct damages which are useful in attack.
Same thing with "rock stacks" of Thing or "limbo" of Magik...

Can you publish a list of ALL abilities ? Then we'll be able to understand what is offensive and what is defensive !

I understand that he may not work correctly, but we don't know what will change !

Eb0ny-O-M4w

You are over reracting with the "nerf" statement.
It was a known issue that Warlock was able to decrease defensive ability accuracy, while he wasn't supposed to. Glad it's being fixed before more people would complain about it.

For the list thing, I don't think you will ever get one, simply because there are hundreds, if not thousands of abilities for each of them. And for sure some of them would be left behind of the list.

For Korg Example, Rock Shields are a defensive ability. Damage back as well since it is still triggered defensively.
Now for Magik, limbo has both of it. While using a special attack, she triggers offensive limbo. Filling a bar of power triggers defensive limbo. The regen is defensive, and the damage is offensive

Jack0312

@will-o-wisp @Hellow
I agree with you, but the frontier between offensive and defensive is very thin !
So we should have a precise list of what is offensive and what is defensive AND/OR an official way to distinguish them from Kabam !

Lormif

Jack0312 said:

@will-o-wisp @Hellow
I agree with you, but the frontier between offensive and defensive is very thin !
So we should have a precise list of what is offensive and what is defensive AND/OR an official way to distinguish them from Kabam !

Offensive are things that trigger on attack defense are things that trigger when being attacked, not that hard

Colinwhitworth69

A lot of the nodes you face are triggered by the defender being hit. Biohazard, thorns, Safeguard -- those are obvious defensive abilities, IMO.

But there are a lot that are kinda unclear to me in terms of being offensive or defensive abilities. Masochism, buffet, aspect of evolution, and others are somewhat vaguely described IMO. So a list would be helpful.

AshKetchum

Does that mean he won't be able to block Kangs healing in v3? Lagacy did a video showing his virus stops it, but it's an instant heal node not healing like regular champs.

Jack0312

Colinwhitworth69 said:

A lot of the nodes you face are triggered by the defender being hit. Biohazard, thorns, Safeguard -- those are obvious defensive abilities, IMO.

But there are a lot that are kinda unclear to me in terms of being offensive or defensive abilities. Masochism, buffet, aspect of evolution, and others are somewhat vaguely described IMO. So a list would be helpful.

I totally agree with that.
A list or even a simple explanation from Kabam would be useful !

Or simply buff Warlock : instead of 30% of offensive ability reduction by infection, clarify it with 20% of reduction for ALL habilities (for example) !

Once again, Warlock hasn't been tested correctly before his release... Same problem with Cull Obsidian !

Magrailothos

AshKetchum said:

Does that mean he won't be able to block Kangs healing in v3? Lagacy did a video showing his virus stops it, but it's an instant heal node not healing like regular champs.

That's nothing to do with ability accuracy reduction. That's his virus which prevents all healing.

It's Warlocks primary ability; so I'm pretty confident that's working as intended.

Marri_2

Fix, not nerf. It wasn't in his ability description that he could even reduce OAA.

Abilities that trigger when the champion is attackING are Offensive.

Abilities that trigger when the champion is attackED are defensive.

It's not rocket science.

Marri_2

UmbertoDelRio said:

Jack0312 said:

Colinwhitworth69 said:

A lot of the nodes you face are triggered by the defender being hit. Biohazard, thorns, Safeguard -- those are obvious defensive abilities, IMO.

But there are a lot that are kinda unclear to me in terms of being offensive or defensive abilities. Masochism, buffet, aspect of evolution, and others are somewhat vaguely described IMO. So a list would be helpful.

I totally agree with that.
A list or even a simple explanation from Kabam would be useful !

Or simply buff Warlock : instead of 30% of offensive ability reduction by infection, clarify it with 20% of reduction for ALL habilities (for example) !

Once again, Warlock hasn't been tested correctly before his release... Same problem with Cull Obsidian !

As I said, such a list would not nessecarily make this clearer.

Some abilities can clearly be considered defensive (e.g. spideys evade) or offensive (black panthers bleed) and would therefore clearly be subject to their respective form of aar.

Many many other abilities however aren't so restricted. So the question of whether a node/ability is offensive or defensive isn't really helpful.

The only important question is whether a certain node/ability is subject to offensive or defensive aar.

And that is solely relying on the actions taken to trigger or while triggering said node/ability.

Stop ignoring this easy af explanation please lmao.

This is overthinking it. Subject to etc. totally irrelevant. AttackING triggers = Offensive, AttackED triggers = defensive.

CoatHang3r

Champions have abilities some (most) are subject to having their ability’s chance to trigger reduced.

Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger abilities while striking/attacking.

Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger their abilities when struck/attacked.

Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance to trigger abilities independent of action.

There are not defensive/offensive abilities it is simply when struck or when striking, the opponents Ability Accuracy is reduced by the respective form of AAR.

In the case of the updated Warlock he will reduce the opponents chance to trigger their abilities when they are hitting him; OAAR and not while he is hitting the opponent; DAAR (or overall AAR which may have been what was actually happening).

Anurag1606

On a side note, since someone asked about v3 Kang. Guilly 99 is supposed to reverse heal with her sp2. So when Kang is about to heal back on his timer, if guilly 99 sp2 is already in place then will it reverse heal? Is she a viable option for Kang? No shock or incinerate or heal block but heal reversal can get through that fight? Sorry if it's a side tracked question. I got curious.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Anurag1606 said:

On a side note, since someone asked about v3 Kang. Guilly 99 is supposed to reverse heal with her sp2. So when Kang is about to heal back on his timer, if guilly 99 sp2 is already in place then will it reverse heal? Is she a viable option for Kang? No shock or incinerate or heal block but heal reversal can get through that fight? Sorry if it's a side tracked question. I got curious.

The node removes debuffs, so it wont work

UnnecessaryJB1

Unblockable sp1 for example node is offensive ability, warlock is able to block it, not 100% obviously, but it works, got last night havok on unblockable sp1 mini t4 wars, I just blocked 2 first waves of animation , parried 3rd

CoatHang3r

CoatHang3r said:

Champions have abilities some (most) are subject to having their ability’s chance to trigger reduced.

Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger abilities while striking/attacking.

Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger their abilities when struck/attacked.

Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance to trigger abilities independent of action.

There are not defensive/offensive abilities it is simply when struck or when striking, the opponents Ability Accuracy is reduced by the respective form of AAR.

In the case of the updated Warlock he will reduce the opponents chance to trigger their abilities when they are hitting him; OAAR and not while he is hitting the opponent; DAAR (or overall AAR which may have been what was actually happening).

I’m still waiting for someone to prove this wrong rather than disagree with it. Ostrich much?


*I’ll even help you out, show me one ability failing to proc due to DAAR while not being hit.

arsjum

Lol @CoatHang3r, you know that “disagree” here often means “I don’t like this post,” “this doesn’t confirm my prior assumption,” “this invalidates justification for my rant,” or “I just don’t like this forum member.”

Tyler

No no you nerfed him I'm finished with this bad game nerfing heroes after people rank them to r2 6 star or r5 5 star this should have been fixed before he was released if I'm not given a rank down ticket for the 6 star i r2 I'm through with this bad nerfing heroes game after they release them. Goodbye to me spending 800 to 1000 dollars on cyber Monday and other offers I'm. No more buying featured crystals or spending money on this game over it. Made me mad over this the resources to get him and r2 him I'm through with game saying not a nerf but a fix. Done with this sorry games nerfing

Lormif

Tyler said:

No no you nerfed him I'm finished with this bad game nerfing heroes after people rank them to r2 6 star or r5 5 star this should have been fixed before he was released if I'm not given a rank down ticket for the 6 star i r2 I'm through with this bad nerfing heroes game after they release them. Goodbye to me spending 800 to 1000 dollars on cyber Monday and other offers I'm. No more buying featured crystals or spending money on this game over it. Made me mad over this the resources to get him and r2 him I'm through with game saying not a nerf but a fix. Done with this sorry games nerfing

You ranked a bugged champion and got mad the bug was fixed? The ability clearly says offensive, not defensive.

Tyler

And my point again kabam should not release heroes that still have problems and it had been over a month since his release that is my problem. I watch people play on content creator co tent before release this should have been addressed then not later when people rank him up then fix it. So yes i want a rank down for a 6 star I'm sick of this game releasing heroes that have bugs then fix later after people spend a lot to get me rank

Lormif

Tyler said:

And my point again kabam should not release heroes that still have problems and it had been over a month since his release that is my problem. I watch people play on content creator co tent before release this should have been addressed then not later when people rank him up then fix it. So yes i want a rank down for a 6 star I'm sick of this game releasing heroes that have bugs then fix later after people spend a lot to get me rank

then you should quit playing as you have repeatedly threatened to do when things dont go your way. There is no way to have champions always released without bugs. They fixed the champ.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

It was your fault, really.
Content creators are still normal players. Having said this, they can still be wrong and do wrong stuff, just like any other player.
The champion was released with a bug that they weren't aware of. That's the point of bug fixing, to fix something that isn't working as intended.

You made a mistake, you can't really blame Kabam for not properly reading or understand basic stuff of the game

Mhykke

Tyler said:

And my point again kabam should not release heroes that still have problems and it had been over a month since his release that is my problem. I watch people play on content creator co tent before release this should have been addressed then not later when people rank him up then fix it. So yes i want a rank down for a 6 star I'm sick of this game releasing heroes that have bugs then fix later after people spend a lot to get me rank

There is no bug with his description.

Colinwhitworth69

Marri_2 said:

Fix, not nerf. It wasn't in his ability description that he could even reduce OAA.

Abilities that trigger when the champion is attackING are Offensive.

Abilities that trigger when the champion is attackED are defensive.

It's not rocket science.

Nothing in this game is rocket science, or even close. However, if rocket scientists relied on vague descriptions which some people think mean one thing and other people insist mean something else, we would never had put a rocket into orbit.

Marri_2

CoatHang3r said:

CoatHang3r said:

Champions have abilities some (most) are subject to having their ability’s chance to trigger reduced.

Offensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger abilities while striking/attacking.

Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance for the opponent to trigger their abilities when struck/attacked.

Ability Accuracy Reduction reduces the chance to trigger abilities independent of action.

There are not defensive/offensive abilities it is simply when struck or when striking, the opponents Ability Accuracy is reduced by the respective form of AAR.

In the case of the updated Warlock he will reduce the opponents chance to trigger their abilities when they are hitting him; OAAR and not while he is hitting the opponent; DAAR (or overall AAR which may have been what was actually happening).

I’m still waiting for someone to prove this wrong rather than disagree with it. Ostrich much?


*I’ll even help you out, show me one ability failing to proc due to DAAR while not being hit.

I do think that effects such as masochism, which trigger from effects rather than attacks, are neither in the OAA or DAA category. For example, a max sig Antman's glance does not disable the masochism trigger from a parry, even though OAAR = 100% when glancing. I don't know if there's a champ that can get 100% DAAR and inflict debuffs, so that test is impossible.

I would hypothesize that those abilities are just abilities and therefore not subject to either DAAR nor OAAR. Champs that manage to bypass these mechanics have AAR, which covers all forms of abilities.

Kabam Lyra

Apologies for any disappointment or confusion caused, but this was a fix to an unintended interaction with Warlock.