Kabam, i'm starting to get confused....

This content has been removed.

I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...

Passive abilities exist in the game since the very beginning, either you noticed it or not. Its nothing new really.

In order for not every character be the exact same, they add kinda unique abilities and features to them. Thats the only way they could make them different, and at least have some good, decent and nice uses against certain node or ability

Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives

You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.

Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?

‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?

So, if the node says immune to stun effects

So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?

This content has been removed.

If a node says "armor up" then both passives or buffs should work, once it says debuffs/buffs then only one would work....

Yes I understand they are counted as 2 abilities but they still fall under one unbrealla when it coems to stuns..

It is like saying "car", a VW beetle is different from a ford mustang, but they still fit under one group, cars, but if you buy a part for one it probably will not work on the other, but if you want to talk about ALL cars, you would just say car. In this case "stun effects" covers every single way a stun can be placed, because it is "effects".

gah post got eaten..

You seems to be purposely conflating things. There is a general category "x effects", and then there are specific ways to get that effect "stun debuffs" and "stun passives" Both fall under the general category of "stun effects"

effect verb
effected; effecting; effects
Definition of effect (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to cause to come into being

If Havoks ability said "under the effect of an armor up" then both buffs and passives would work because based on the language it just needs an armor up, any armor up. Once it says buff or passive though it requires that specific type.

This is plain English.

"The defender is immune to stun effects"
Pretty much self-explanatory. Just because you don't fully understanding doesn't mean its wrong. You

Passive abilities are effects.
Active abilities are effects.

Immunity to effects, means immunity to both active and passive abilities. Therefore if the node says "The defender is immune to stun effects", the defender will be stun immune, whether its an active or a passive ability

This content has been removed.

Hol' up. Are you serious?

Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

"The defender is immune to stun effects"
Pretty much self-explanatory. Just because you don't fully understanding doesn't mean its wrong. You still have time before knowing how everything in the game works, dont just jump to the point where you think everything is wrong

Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

Yes, you are purposely conflating things....passive and buff/Debuffs are different things, but both are effects. It is a general category vs specific type. It is like saying a “car” vs a vw beetle or Ford Mustang. If it says stun effects it covers all effects, passive or Debuffs.

Fred_Joeity

Let’s try to clarify:

There are effects (eg stun, bleed, armour up, etc) that are either active (buffs or debuffs) or passive. So for an analogy, it would be like fruits (apples, oranges, lemons, etc) that can either be organic or GMO. Technically there are also DoT effects that aren’t active or passive, but they’re usually degen effects, so they don’t really matter here.

If x effect is referred to, then active and passive versions of that effect are both referred to. So if a champion is bleed immune, then active (debuff) and passive bleeds don’t affect it. Going back to the fruit analogy, if apples are banned, it doesn’t matter if they’re organic or GMO, since both are considered “apples.”

Now if a champion is debuff immune, then they might be immune to stun debuffs but affected by passive stuns. For the apple example, perhaps GMO apples are banned, but organic apples are fine.

Finally, you have cases where the effect and the type is referred to, like Havok and the armour up buff. So fury buffs don’t work (obviously) since it’s not an armour up effect, and passive armour doesn’t work either since it’s not a buff.

So the crux of the issue is how many qualifiers are used, and which one. For the case of debuff immunity, debuffs don’t work, but passive effects do. For immunity for a specific effect, both active and passive versions of that effect shouldn’t work. For effects that require the effect and the type of effect (eg Shock debuff), then it only applies if both criteria are met.

Hopefully that clears things up

Fred_Joeity

Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly

Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?

Fred_Joeity

Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?

EMP node should be a passive shock effect

EMP node should be a passive shock effect

So if you go with Thing on that node, Thing should be immune right? Cose i never tried actually that, i thought that it can not be bypassed untill now... Am I right?

This content has been removed.

This content has been removed.

I mean, they're all stun effects after all...?

Look, if you were allergic to apples, would you then say "I'm allergic to apples", or would you rather say "I'm allergic to red apples, green apples, multicolored apples..."?

Just waiting on the Thing question to be answered and i think we will be done

Thing should be immune to that, as would doom for example.

Should be or it is for sure?

This content has been removed.

Etjama

This definitely should've been addressed a long time ago and there should definitely be rank-down tickets, but this really is how the interaction should be. Shock immune champs are immune to the effects of passive shock. Debuff immune champs aren't. Same should apply to stun.

solopolo

Why would they give out tickets? This isn't a nerf. Everyone who ranked up wasp did it knowing it was a bug, or didn't care whether or not it was, simply because it benefited them.

Championcritic

It depends on how the immunity is phrased. Like bleed immune, it does not specifically say immune to active or passive bleeds, so it should automatically prevent both. And for debuff immune, it says immune to debuff effects, which means passive can apply just fine. Another example, for Corvus he will not take damage from Coldsnap, bleed and shock debuffs, so passive shocks will apply and deal damage just fine.

Bottom line: you cannot automatically assume that immunity applies only for active debuffs, you must see how it is phrased.

Thi101

If we are talking about “Stun Immune”, every ability that works with Stun enters here, be it a regular stun, a parry stun, a passive stun or even (i guess) the Stun effect from petrify debuffs (from SG, for example)