Kabam, i'm starting to get confused....

ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76
edited November 2019 in General Discussion
Stun immunity, okay, so i understand that those champions can't be stunned, but why did bring the passive effects ingame at all??? Stun is considered as a debuff, but wasps stun is not a debuff it is a passive effect... Let say you are right and wasp shouldn't stun with the passive effect, if thats the case then let my ghost purify the E.M.P effect also maybe? At this point i dont really understand why bringing the passive effects ingame...
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Comments

  • This content has been removed.
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Member Posts: 14,029 ★★★★★
    Passive abilities exist in the game since the very beginning, either you noticed it or not. Its nothing new really.

    In order for not every character be the exact same, they add kinda unique abilities and features to them. Thats the only way they could make them different, and at least have some good, decent and nice uses against certain node or ability
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Member Posts: 14,029 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
    So, if the node says immune to stun effects
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
    So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
    You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?
  • This content has been removed.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    edited November 2019
    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
    So, if the node says immune to stun effects
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
    So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
    You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?

    If a node says "armor up" then both passives or buffs should work, once it says debuffs/buffs then only one would work....

    Yes I understand they are counted as 2 abilities but they still fall under one unbrealla when it coems to stuns..

    It is like saying "car", a VW beetle is different from a ford mustang, but they still fit under one group, cars, but if you buy a part for one it probably will not work on the other, but if you want to talk about ALL cars, you would just say car. In this case "stun effects" covers every single way a stun can be placed, because it is "effects".
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
    So, if the node says immune to stun effects
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
    So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
    You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?
    gah post got eaten..

    You seems to be purposely conflating things. There is a general category "x effects", and then there are specific ways to get that effect "stun debuffs" and "stun passives" Both fall under the general category of "stun effects"

    effect verb
    effected; effecting; effects
    Definition of effect (Entry 2 of 2)
    transitive verb

    1: to cause to come into being

    If Havoks ability said "under the effect of an armor up" then both buffs and passives would work because based on the language it just needs an armor up, any armor up. Once it says buff or passive though it requires that specific type.

    This is plain English.
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Member Posts: 14,029 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    "The defender is immune to stun effects"
    Pretty much self-explanatory. Just because you don't fully understanding doesn't mean its wrong. You
    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
    So, if the node says immune to stun effects
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
    So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
    You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?
    Passive abilities are effects.
    Active abilities are effects.

    Immunity to effects, means immunity to both active and passive abilities. Therefore if the node says "The defender is immune to stun effects", the defender will be stun immune, whether its an active or a passive ability
  • This content has been removed.
  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76


    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?
  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Member Posts: 14,029 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    "The defender is immune to stun effects"
    Pretty much self-explanatory. Just because you don't fully understanding doesn't mean its wrong. You still have time before knowing how everything in the game works, dont just jump to the point where you think everything is wrong
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

    Yes, you are purposely conflating things....passive and buff/Debuffs are different things, but both are effects. It is a general category vs specific type. It is like saying a “car” vs a vw beetle or Ford Mustang. If it says stun effects it covers all effects, passive or Debuffs.
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Member Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Let’s try to clarify:

    There are effects (eg stun, bleed, armour up, etc) that are either active (buffs or debuffs) or passive. So for an analogy, it would be like fruits (apples, oranges, lemons, etc) that can either be organic or GMO. Technically there are also DoT effects that aren’t active or passive, but they’re usually degen effects, so they don’t really matter here.

    If x effect is referred to, then active and passive versions of that effect are both referred to. So if a champion is bleed immune, then active (debuff) and passive bleeds don’t affect it. Going back to the fruit analogy, if apples are banned, it doesn’t matter if they’re organic or GMO, since both are considered “apples.”

    Now if a champion is debuff immune, then they might be immune to stun debuffs but affected by passive stuns. For the apple example, perhaps GMO apples are banned, but organic apples are fine.

    Finally, you have cases where the effect and the type is referred to, like Havok and the armour up buff. So fury buffs don’t work (obviously) since it’s not an armour up effect, and passive armour doesn’t work either since it’s not a buff.

    So the crux of the issue is how many qualifiers are used, and which one. For the case of debuff immunity, debuffs don’t work, but passive effects do. For immunity for a specific effect, both active and passive versions of that effect shouldn’t work. For effects that require the effect and the type of effect (eg Shock debuff), then it only applies if both criteria are met.

    Hopefully that clears things up
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Member Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly
  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76
    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

    Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly

    Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Member Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

    Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly

    Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?

    EMP node should be a passive shock effect
  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76

    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

    Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly

    Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?
    EMP node should be a passive shock effect

    So if you go with Thing on that node, Thing should be immune right? Cose i never tried actually that, i thought that it can not be bypassed untill now... Am I right?
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  • ZverceZverce Member Posts: 76

    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?
    I mean, they're all stun effects after all...?

    Look, if you were allergic to apples, would you then say "I'm allergic to apples", or would you rather say "I'm allergic to red apples, green apples, multicolored apples..."?

    Just waiting on the Thing question to be answered and i think we will be done

    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:



    Hol' up. Are you serious?

    Passive debuff, passive effect... active debuff, active effect... You are trying to say this is the case that i'm missing? This is why all stun debuffs and passives belong in 1 group?

    Also to clarify, passive effects aren’t considered to be buffs or debuffs. Usually when they’re called that, it’s a colloquialism that doesn’t actually describe what they are accurately. If it’s active, then it’s a buff or debuff. If it’s passive, then it’s a passive effect. Anything that seems to go against that might just be labeled incorrectly

    Okay, one more question, how is E.M.P node qualified? Passive Shock effect?
    EMP node should be a passive shock effect
    So if you go with Thing on that node, Thing should be immune right? Cose i never tried actually that, i thought that it can not be bypassed untill now... Am I right?
    Thing should be immune to that, as would doom for example.

    Should be or it is for sure?
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  • EtjamaEtjama Member Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    This definitely should've been addressed a long time ago and there should definitely be rank-down tickets, but this really is how the interaction should be. Shock immune champs are immune to the effects of passive shock. Debuff immune champs aren't. Same should apply to stun.
  • solopolosolopolo Member Posts: 888 ★★★
    Why would they give out tickets? This isn't a nerf. Everyone who ranked up wasp did it knowing it was a bug, or didn't care whether or not it was, simply because it benefited them.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Member Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    Ya_Boi_28 said:

    Thus thread is confusing but when a node says x immunity, it means they are immune to the active version of that effect. That counts for stun immunity as well. When an effect is passive, it bypasses immunity because it is passive.
    Bottom line: IMMUNITES ONLY COUNT FOR ACTIVE EFFECTS.

    It depends on how the immunity is phrased. Like bleed immune, it does not specifically say immune to active or passive bleeds, so it should automatically prevent both. And for debuff immune, it says immune to debuff effects, which means passive can apply just fine. Another example, for Corvus he will not take damage from Coldsnap, bleed and shock debuffs, so passive shocks will apply and deal damage just fine.

    Bottom line: you cannot automatically assume that immunity applies only for active debuffs, you must see how it is phrased.
  • Thi101Thi101 Member Posts: 807 ★★★
    Zverce said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work
    You know that every champion has a list of abilities, that you can carefully read and understand them. That IS the page, and is more than enough.

    Yes Killmonger has a passive armor. But how about read havoc's abilities until you notice that only armor up BUFFS counter plasma detonation?
    Even with a list of abilities telling you what will or not work, you still don't read them or understand them.
    So, if the node says immune to stun effects
    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    Lormif said:

    Zverce said:

    What...? You don't get why there are passive effects?

    Did you ever think about stuff like "debuff-immunity", which is quite common in one way or another through nodes or abilities?

    How about debuff shrugging/tenacity?

    Passive counterparts to debuffs are a great way for us as players to find new solutions around problems and a great way for the team to create challenging content without simply pumping up the health and attack of an enemy.

    Why does wasp have a passive stun and not a debuff? How about:
    - tenacity/shrug off/conversion
    - reduced debuff duration
    - debuff immunity
    - nodes giving benefits through debuffs

    I genuinely believe you didn't think about this at all before opening this thread. Her passive stun is still an extremely valuable ability, even without an obvious exploit.

    I get where you are going with this, and i understand why her stun is passive cose of the tencity and other stuff, most science champs got them to counter the mystics and not be s****d by them, but Kabam is creating their own set of rules what and when can be used, why killmongers armor up doesnt counter havoc, even if it passive it is still armor up... I think that kabam should make a page where all of the abilities can be read and state where and how they will work, i mean cmon to play this game in near future we will need a PHD to play this game, ghulks face works on some passive degen and on some doesnt, my advice, make a page with set of skills and abilities, how they work and when they work so we can check out how some champions will behave and work in the gameplay...
    Because havok specifically says buff and passives are not buffs. You don’t need a degree. They are working on separating degen icons from passives
    Then dont call the node stun immunity, call it "immune to stunn effects and debbufs" maybe?
    ‘Stun effects” includes by its itself all stuff effects, why be redundant?
    So you are putting passive effects and debufs in 1 group then?
    You do understand that Kabam counts those 2 as different abilities right?
    If we are talking about “Stun Immune”, every ability that works with Stun enters here, be it a regular stun, a parry stun, a passive stun or even (i guess) the Stun effect from petrify debuffs (from SG, for example)
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