Are you a map 6 player in a 6-5-5 or 6-6-5 group? Enjoy your added costs.

TyEdge

We run 6x5, 5x5 and 66655. Every 8 days, our map costs came to 194k gold, 16k chips and 13,700 loyalty. Map 6 entry requires 170k gold (with NONE coming back), 20k chips and 16k loyalty.

Considering how much gold came back in rewards, for at least two months, I’ll be paying twice as much gold, 25% more battlechips and about more loyalty.

I think it’s telling that Kabam’s announcement of these changes only trumpeted the map 7 costs and didn’t address map 6. Then, suddenly, it comes out that a huge chunk of gold has been removed from rewards for map 6.

Is anyone else in the position where they’re clearly paying more across the board? A straight 6-5-5 alliance is even worse. Donations were 130k-7k-9k, and you got three quarters of the gold back in rewards. A map 6 player in this situation is losing about 140,000 gold per cycle compared to the old system, and roughly doubling chips and loyalty.

Is there someone who can rerun these numbers? It seems like a design error worth evaluating.

TyEdge

It’d be great to have someone checking behind me on this. I used the donations calculator at the class advantage and made sure to get the “every 8 days” numbers instead of discounts.

Considering that this will drag into August before costs are shared, that’s going to be over a million gold per player lost in those battlegroups.

GroundedWisdom

The main idea with Tickets is to split the cost over a number of Resources.

GroundedWisdom

Also, you're paying less Gold for Map 6.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

The main idea with Tickets is to split the cost over a number of Resources.

I guess everyone can’t be trusted to read. I posted the costs under the new system splitting the tickets 25-25-25. It takes more gold, more chips, and more loyalty, and it’s even worse considering the huge nerf to rewards.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

Also, you're paying less Gold for Map 6.

Explain exactly where the math I posted is wrong. I’ll wait.

TyEdge

Mike439 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Also, you're paying less Gold for Map 6.

But you have 10 people paying for it instead of 30. Those individuals now carry a lot more weight

A system that was so misguided they announced it would be changed before it ever launched. They just can’t “fix” it for months.

This creates an enormous moral hazard for any mix-map player. You’re getting less rewards than you’d get in a 6-6-6 group for the exact same price.

GroundedWisdom

TyEdge said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Also, you're paying less Gold for Map 6.

Explain exactly where the math I posted is wrong. I’ll wait.

TyEdge

Mike439 said:

TyEdge said:

Mike439 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Also, you're paying less Gold for Map 6.

But you have 10 people paying for it instead of 30. Those individuals now carry a lot more weight

A system that was so misguided they announced it would be changed before it ever launched. They just can’t “fix” it for months.

This creates an enormous moral hazard for any mix-map player. You’re getting less rewards than you’d get in a 6-6-6 group for the exact same price.

Idk if the math changes when your run map 6 only half the week but in a 6x5, even without the gold return from AQ, you do still pay less gold overall.

Irrelevant and incorrect. Mike’s numbers assume all 3 groups running map 6. My numbers are the correct 8-day donation amounts for an alliance running 6-5-5 every day. So again...someone tell me where I did the math wrong, please.

GroundedWisdom

People don't need to donate anything for Map 5. In fact, they're still getting Gold from it. Map 6 has gone down in Gold costs.

TyEdge

Jesus tapdancing Christ, people. The title specifically mentions mixed-map groups. The numbers discuss mixed map groups. Stop posting donation amounts for all 3 BGs running map 6. That’s not who I’m here for. The problem is that Kabam clearly ignored the way this structure screws map 6 players sharing an alliance with map 5 players.

GroundedWisdom

Tell me then. If there's no cost for Map 5 and the cost is decreased for an Ally doing 15 BGs of Map 6 in a week, how does that equate to costing more Gold for an Ally running 6x5x5?

AdixRaj

Looks like they don’t want to admit it ? Gold should NOT have been removed from aq rewards , considering how much gold is needed for rank ups !

ItsDamien

Simple solution. All players donate. The map 5 players will still get map 6 rewards, so they should still contribute. If they don't like it, you can easily replace them with other people who will gladly pay donations still. Just treat it as if Map 5 weren't free.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

People don't need to donate anything for Map 5. In fact, they're still getting Gold from it. Map 6 has gone down in Gold costs.

Remember when I said to tell me exactly where my math was wrong?

Were my 6-5-5 donations wrong?
Were my alliance ticket costs wrong?
Was the gold returned in rewards wrong?

Unless you can actually engage on the questions I’m asking, take your platitudes somewhere else. Saying the map costs less is meaningless because you could previously have map 5 players subsidize the cost.

Is the issue that you don’t know what 655 is? It means one group is full map 6 and two are full map 5. Otherwise I’m not sure why you wouldn’t understand...

Neotwism

It's going to force players to either pay more or change alliances. An alliance is penalized for running different maps under this system. As I've said before, I'm all for stopping cheaters and merc dumps. The problem is this new method hurts the honest players and will create more problems in many alliances. As far as preventing merc dumps this won't change anything since most whales have so much gold they can still cover their cost for years before it affects them.

TyEdge

ItsDamien said:

Simple solution. All players donate. The map 5 players will still get map 6 rewards, so they should still contribute. If they don't like it, you can easily replace them with other people who will gladly pay donations still. Just treat it as if Map 5 weren't free.

You aren’t allowed to donate tickets to other players, nor are you allowed to share map costs until at least August. We wouldn’t be having this talk of Kabam had allowed that at the outset.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

Tell me then. If there's no cost for Map 5 and the cost is decreased for an Ally doing 15 BGs of Map 6 in a week, how does that equate to costing more Gold for an Ally running 6x5x5?

The 20 players running map 5 get a huge windfall. They used to share the cost of map 6 and map 5. Now they pay nothing.

The 10 map 6 players were minimizing their costs by joining with map 5 players. They now pay full freight for their own map 6 and don’t enjoy any of the discount given to map 5 players.

The numbers are there. No one has pointed to any error in the math I’ve posted so far.

Check my 8-day 6-5-5 donations. Check my alliance ticket costs for 6x5. Factor in the gold rewards that were just snatched away. Tell me how this is fair at all.

GroundedWisdom

People are paying for what they run. If they're running Map 6, they pay their own way. If they're running Map 5, they don't. You also don't have to use all Gold, and yes, when you're talking about Map 6 Gold costs, they're reduced. They're lower at 15 BGs and they're lower at 5. What you're saying is, people won't be paying the way of the others in Map 6.

ItsDamien

TyEdge said:

ItsDamien said:

Simple solution. All players donate. The map 5 players will still get map 6 rewards, so they should still contribute. If they don't like it, you can easily replace them with other people who will gladly pay donations still. Just treat it as if Map 5 weren't free.

You aren’t allowed to donate tickets to other players, nor are you allowed to share map costs until at least August. We wouldn’t be having this talk of Kabam had allowed that at the outset.

Keep a running tab until map costs can be shared. If you're with an alliance that's been steady, no one will object. Is it more work for the officers and leader? Sure. Does it also solve an issue? Yes. It's not like people haven't needed to do micro management outside of the games normal functions for years already. This is just one more thing to add to that list.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

People are paying for what they run. If they're running Map 6, they pay their own way. If they're running Map 5, they don't. You also don't have to use all Gold, and yes, when you're talking about Map 6 Gold costs, they're reduced. They're lower at 15 BGs and they're lower at 5. What you're saying is, people won't be paying the way of the others in Map 6.

So now the goalposts have moved form “iTs cHeApEr!!!1!” to “This is more fair because you pay full price.” Uh huh.

TyEdge

ItsDamien said:

TyEdge said:

ItsDamien said:

Simple solution. All players donate. The map 5 players will still get map 6 rewards, so they should still contribute. If they don't like it, you can easily replace them with other people who will gladly pay donations still. Just treat it as if Map 5 weren't free.

You aren’t allowed to donate tickets to other players, nor are you allowed to share map costs until at least August. We wouldn’t be having this talk of Kabam had allowed that at the outset.

Keep a running tab until map costs can be shared. If you're with an alliance that's been steady, no one will object. Is it more work for the officers and leader? Sure. Does it also solve an issue? Yes. It's not like people haven't needed to do micro management outside of the games normal functions for years already. This is just one more thing to add to that list.

Kabam explained how tickets will work after the August fix and this isn’t an option. You take the alliance’s collective map costs, divide by 30 (assuming 3 groups). Each person pays 1/30th. There’s no option to subsidize or make up deficits. Again, no problem at all with what you’re suggesting as a concept, except Kabam specifically said it wouldn’t work that way.

GroundedWisdom

What are you talking about? It's cheaper because it's full price? The cost of Map 6 Donations was laid out in the calcualtions I shared. It's less Gold overall. If you're playing and not donating enough for it, that's more of an in-house issue than anything.

TyEdge

GroundedWisdom said:

What are you talking about? It's cheaper because it's full price? The cost of Map 6 Donations was laid out in the calcualtions I shared. It's less Gold overall. If you're playing and not donating enough for it, that's more of an in-house issue than anything.

If I play with 30 people running map 6, our donations are enormous. If I chose to play with 20 on map 5, I could reduce my cost. Kabam specifically did that to encourage mixed-map groups. It was a feature they promoted, and it was good for continuity. This crushes it.

I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

GroundedWisdom

TyEdge said:

GroundedWisdom said:

What are you talking about? It's cheaper because it's full price? The cost of Map 6 Donations was laid out in the calcualtions I shared. It's less Gold overall. If you're playing and not donating enough for it, that's more of an in-house issue than anything.

If I play with 30 people running map 6, our donations are enormous. If I chose to play with 20 on map 5, I could reduce my cost. Kabam specifically did that to encourage mixed-map groups. It was a feature they promoted, and it was good for continuity. This crushes it.

I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

If you play with 20 on Map 5, you reduce your cost enormously because there's NO COST for Map 5. Don't know why that's not hitting home.

TyEdge

What do paint chips taste like?

Neotwism

This will break up alliances. My only suggestion is to find other alliances running the same maps as yours and split up for the next month. It sucks that kabam is tearing stable alliances apart with this change but until they fix it that's the only idea I have came up with. Hopefully when it's fixed the alliance can get back together. It's not a good solution but it's all I can think of.

Neotwism

GroundedWisdom said:

TyEdge said:

GroundedWisdom said:

What are you talking about? It's cheaper because it's full price? The cost of Map 6 Donations was laid out in the calcualtions I shared. It's less Gold overall. If you're playing and not donating enough for it, that's more of an in-house issue than anything.

If I play with 30 people running map 6, our donations are enormous. If I chose to play with 20 on map 5, I could reduce my cost. Kabam specifically did that to encourage mixed-map groups. It was a feature they promoted, and it was good for continuity. This crushes it.

I can explain it to you. I can’t understand it for you.

If you play with 20 on Map 5, you reduce your cost enormously because there's NO COST for Map 5. Don't know why that's not hitting home.

Just because there is no cost for map 5 doesn't change the fact that it will cost more for a map 6 player (that's in a 6-5-5 alliance) under the new system than the old system. In the old system the total map cost could be split evenly between everybody. Under the new system you can't do that. It's not hard to understand.