My solution for the Sabertooth-Sasquatch situation
Demi_GodJay69
Member Posts: 102 ★
There's been a lot of fuzz going around Sabertooth thanks to his new synergy with Sasquatch so i thought I'll drop my suggestion/solution for this situation in a way neither Sabertooth loses his value nor the synergy.
(In a thick british accent) Before proposing my solution to this, i want everyone to understand Sabertooth's abilities and whether he is working as intended or not
His passive ability
As clear as it is, Sabertooth can only convert 5 furies into permanent passive furies per match, capping at 15 while fighting.
His persistent Charge ability
Here it states that All Furies regardless active or passive is converted into permanent passive furies at the start of the fight with the cost of consuming a charge.
Looking at both these abilities, it's clear that Sabertooth is infact working as intended or at least working as described.
Sabertooth only converts 5 while fighting, if you end with a sp3 and a multiple of 10 combo, you have 2 more furies when ending the fight. At the start of the next fight, a charge is consumed and all furies active at the end if the previous fight are converted into permanent passive furies (5+2, so 7 now), you can argue that the 2 extra furies converted at the start actually count as during the fight, cuz the start of the fight still falls under the duration of the fight, but no. Sabertooth enough doe converted 2 at the start, can still convert 5 furies in the same fight. So, 'Start of the fight' is not the same as 'During the fight/while fighting'. This alone is what lets Sabertooth go over 15 furies, he is still accepting the rule of not converting more than 15 during the fight, but still converting furies at the start of the fight, and this is exactly how he is described.
Sabertooth with Sasquatch
This is where things start getting crazy for Sabertooth because with this synergy, Sabertooth can stack infinite number of furies making him game breaking, but this comes at a cost, he has to die over 20 times in the a fight or two to get this amount of rampup which is very impractical and very expensive. If you are willing to pay the expense, great cuz you can destroy the rest of the content at least damage wise cuz he doesn't have the greatest utilities in the game. Some may say, this is OP cuz if you can pay at the start, the rest is easy, i can kinda agree to tat. Some may say, he was never supposed to go over 15 furies and was bugged right from his release. Some may say, the synergy doesn't need to exist as it hasn't even gone live yet.
My Solution
Sorry for making y'all read all that BS just to get to this point but here is is,
Just cap his Fury conversion *at the start of the fight* to 30.
Why this is a good solution?
It doesn't effect the existing sabertooth nor does it make him OP with the synergy.
Why not remove the synergy in its whole?
That works great aswell as the synergy hasnt gone live anyway.
Why not make Sabertooth not gain more than 15 furies in any way?
That would be a huge nerf to Sabertooth, it's not a good idea to nerf a champ's base abilities in order to make a synergy ability right. That's doing injustice to people who have Sabertooth ranked up. He's been in the game for 2 years now and I'm sure every pro Sabertooth player does a sp3 to end the fight to gain furies even after the 15 during fight cap, at least i used to do it.
Why 30?
Cuz i haven't seen anyone go over 30 before this synergy was introduced.
Forgetting the existence of Sasquatch synergy,
Sabertooth can have a max of 6 persistent charges, which means
In the 1st fight(6) - Start with 0, convert 5, end with sp3 n 10s multiple combo (will refer this as sp3&10 moving forward)
2nd fight(5) - Start with 7, convert 5, sp3&10
3rd fight(4) - Start with 14, convert 1, sp3&10
4th fight(3) - Start with 17, sp3&10
5th fight(2) - Start with 19, sp3&10
6th fight(1) - Start with 21, sp3&10
7th fight(0) - Start with 23 and thats it.
You can gain an extra fury each match on top of the 2 from sp3&10 if u instead do 10 hits, get hit 5 times and finish with sp3 but this is very impractical. So, is 23 the max? No with the 'Decimation' synergy with Mags/Mags Now/SW you get a permanent active fury against mutants which means in a quest full of mutants, Sabertooth can get up to 28 permanent passive furies with 1 permanent active fury, that's 29 at max.
So, even without Sasquatch sabertooth can get upto 29 furies with a practical rampup, so capping Sabertooth's start of the fight conversion to 30 changes the Sasquatch synergy from infinite rampup to infinite carry over. This doesn't make the synergy OP nor does it destroy what Sabertooth can already do.
Is 30 OP?
No, cuz with 30, Sabertooth starts doing slightly more damage than other damage dealing champs like Thing, Sunspot, ramped up Aegon, ramped up guillotine 2099, Ghost with 5+ furies and 5+ cruelties and others i cant remember (sorry) . Just a slight increase, not a huge game breaking gap.
If 30 is too much, Then 25.
But that makes him gain less furies than he used to but i think it's a pretty good tradeoff.
Thanks for reading.
(In a thick british accent) Before proposing my solution to this, i want everyone to understand Sabertooth's abilities and whether he is working as intended or not
His passive ability
As clear as it is, Sabertooth can only convert 5 furies into permanent passive furies per match, capping at 15 while fighting.
His persistent Charge ability
Here it states that All Furies regardless active or passive is converted into permanent passive furies at the start of the fight with the cost of consuming a charge.
Looking at both these abilities, it's clear that Sabertooth is infact working as intended or at least working as described.
Sabertooth only converts 5 while fighting, if you end with a sp3 and a multiple of 10 combo, you have 2 more furies when ending the fight. At the start of the next fight, a charge is consumed and all furies active at the end if the previous fight are converted into permanent passive furies (5+2, so 7 now), you can argue that the 2 extra furies converted at the start actually count as during the fight, cuz the start of the fight still falls under the duration of the fight, but no. Sabertooth enough doe converted 2 at the start, can still convert 5 furies in the same fight. So, 'Start of the fight' is not the same as 'During the fight/while fighting'. This alone is what lets Sabertooth go over 15 furies, he is still accepting the rule of not converting more than 15 during the fight, but still converting furies at the start of the fight, and this is exactly how he is described.
Sabertooth with Sasquatch
This is where things start getting crazy for Sabertooth because with this synergy, Sabertooth can stack infinite number of furies making him game breaking, but this comes at a cost, he has to die over 20 times in the a fight or two to get this amount of rampup which is very impractical and very expensive. If you are willing to pay the expense, great cuz you can destroy the rest of the content at least damage wise cuz he doesn't have the greatest utilities in the game. Some may say, this is OP cuz if you can pay at the start, the rest is easy, i can kinda agree to tat. Some may say, he was never supposed to go over 15 furies and was bugged right from his release. Some may say, the synergy doesn't need to exist as it hasn't even gone live yet.
My Solution
Sorry for making y'all read all that BS just to get to this point but here is is,
Just cap his Fury conversion *at the start of the fight* to 30.
Why this is a good solution?
It doesn't effect the existing sabertooth nor does it make him OP with the synergy.
Why not remove the synergy in its whole?
That works great aswell as the synergy hasnt gone live anyway.
Why not make Sabertooth not gain more than 15 furies in any way?
That would be a huge nerf to Sabertooth, it's not a good idea to nerf a champ's base abilities in order to make a synergy ability right. That's doing injustice to people who have Sabertooth ranked up. He's been in the game for 2 years now and I'm sure every pro Sabertooth player does a sp3 to end the fight to gain furies even after the 15 during fight cap, at least i used to do it.
Why 30?
Cuz i haven't seen anyone go over 30 before this synergy was introduced.
Forgetting the existence of Sasquatch synergy,
Sabertooth can have a max of 6 persistent charges, which means
In the 1st fight(6) - Start with 0, convert 5, end with sp3 n 10s multiple combo (will refer this as sp3&10 moving forward)
2nd fight(5) - Start with 7, convert 5, sp3&10
3rd fight(4) - Start with 14, convert 1, sp3&10
4th fight(3) - Start with 17, sp3&10
5th fight(2) - Start with 19, sp3&10
6th fight(1) - Start with 21, sp3&10
7th fight(0) - Start with 23 and thats it.
You can gain an extra fury each match on top of the 2 from sp3&10 if u instead do 10 hits, get hit 5 times and finish with sp3 but this is very impractical. So, is 23 the max? No with the 'Decimation' synergy with Mags/Mags Now/SW you get a permanent active fury against mutants which means in a quest full of mutants, Sabertooth can get up to 28 permanent passive furies with 1 permanent active fury, that's 29 at max.
So, even without Sasquatch sabertooth can get upto 29 furies with a practical rampup, so capping Sabertooth's start of the fight conversion to 30 changes the Sasquatch synergy from infinite rampup to infinite carry over. This doesn't make the synergy OP nor does it destroy what Sabertooth can already do.
Is 30 OP?
No, cuz with 30, Sabertooth starts doing slightly more damage than other damage dealing champs like Thing, Sunspot, ramped up Aegon, ramped up guillotine 2099, Ghost with 5+ furies and 5+ cruelties and others i cant remember (sorry) . Just a slight increase, not a huge game breaking gap.
If 30 is too much, Then 25.
But that makes him gain less furies than he used to but i think it's a pretty good tradeoff.
Thanks for reading.
6
Comments
It is obviously impractical for any other current content, although we will have to see if it is practical for this new end game mode they are releasing that is supposed to be harder than the Abyss.
However, let's wait and see if this synergy actually goes live, first.....
It didn't take 40 revives to get to the point where Sabertooth was able to reliably solo Abyss fights. It took about 20 revives in Brian Grants video for him to get to that point. At 40 units a piece, that's 800 units plus some more for potions to top up and you're looking at 1000 units a path if you had nothing to start with, less if you did. That looks like a completely reasonable amount of units to spend for the rewards you receive.
Furthermore, that doesn't even factor in that you know only need to invest in one champ for that content rather than 4 or more to get through it. More units/resources saved (albeit most champs for the abyss are useful elsewhere).
I think Abyss is the piece of content that people are throwing the most units at currently so I can see why they don't want to give people a significantly cheaper solution.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/208879/sabretooth-and-sasquatch-synergy-merged-threads#latest
Lets keep the discussion there