Well, as for havok, the mix of physical and energy attacks makes him versatile in different matchups, those non-contact mediums and heavy attacks are almost too useful! He's basically a low budget omega red in that regard. No thorns, no Korg damage, no electro shock damage, no plasma detonation damage too. I say low budget omega red because he can't disable spiked armor or limbo like omega can. He has that super nice energy resistance as well, and I disagree with you guys saying he's reliant on debuffs for he can control a fight without needing to place plasmas or use feedback. He doesn't need buffs either, so he's good for things like spite. When it comes to his debuffs, he's probably the champ that can comfortably stack the most amount of debuffs at a time in the game! I know there's others invisible woman, but it's not so "comfortable" to do. Add despair on top, and you've got healblock on your opponent like 80% of the time when you get into the fight. As for rampup, you can throw your SP 1 to drastically reduce the duration, and control the fight from early on. His energy resistance and energy related abilities allow him to counter physical resistance nodes or champs, counter havok himself, magik, both Magnetos, Korg, doctor strange, Claire, Doom, sorcerer supreme (I think), Iceman, bishop, infinity man, etc. He's incinerate immune, so he works against freezer burn, mephisto, and other similar situations. Probably the best option for special connoisseur, and he works very well with wasp and ghost, two other badasses!
Well, as for havok, the mix of physical and energy attacks makes him versatile in different matchups, those non-contact mediums and heavy attacks are almost too useful! He's basically a low budget omega red in that regard. No thorns, no Korg damage, no electro shock damage, no plasma detonation damage too. I say low budget omega red because he can't disable spiked armor or limbo like omega can. He has that super nice energy resistance as well, and I disagree with you guys saying he's reliant on debuffs for he can control a fight without needing to place plasmas or use feedback. He doesn't need buffs either, so he's good for things like spite. When it comes to his debuffs, he's probably the champ that can comfortably stack the most amount of debuffs at a time in the game! I know there's others invisible woman, but it's not so "comfortable" to do. Add despair on top, and you've got healblock on your opponent like 80% of the time when you get into the fight. As for rampup, you can throw your SP 1 to drastically reduce the duration, and control the fight from early on. His energy resistance and energy related abilities allow him to counter physical resistance nodes or champs, counter havok himself, magik, both Magnetos, Korg, doctor strange, Claire, Doom, sorcerer supreme (I think), Iceman, bishop, infinity man, etc. He's incinerate immune, so he works against freezer burn, mephisto, and other similar situations. Probably the best option for special connoisseur, and he works very well with wasp and ghost, two other badasses!
I’m going to r2 wasp since I have ghost. Her attack is insane. But havok would definitely make a nice addition to those two! Does he need his dupe?
This dude with this huge pool of 6*s asking on forums.
What’s wrong with picking people’s brains and creating discussion? Plenty of people out there who are smarter than I am. Plus I’m terrible at deciding and go back and forth between champs. But thanks for contributing.
I mean, if you’re asking us to pick your next R3, you probably don’t need any champs. So go Storm. I love my 5/65. Just play her correctly. SP3 span instead of SP2. Turns her into Havok and is even more fun
You have so many good options though. My personal top choice would be Killmonger
Sp3 first and then sp2? Or just spam sp3?
Just spam SP3. The SP2 can output slightly bigger numbers but the crits basically never land whereas the SP3 is essentially guaranteed damage if you play aggressively.
My one can consistently throw 120k-140k SP3’s with suicides
That’s nuts. I’m not running suicides. Only glass cannon. But maybe I could still get 75k-80k?
Probably around 100k. Remember, that’s every SP3 after the first one as long as you’re playing aggressively. Most fights won’t survive more than two. That’s on top of her other utility. Double immune, slow on SP1, Coldsnap on SP1, shocks on SP2, always placing her stuns (countering shrug off, masochism, mordo), energy damage, and some energy resistance
And people wonder why I rate her over Havok. And that’s without synergies
Rate her over havok in generality? Because havok's pretty insane!
I agree, they both have a lot of utilities in their kits, but I feel like havok has the edge.
The way I think about it is this. Havok has incinerate immunity, non contact mediums, energy resistance, stacking debuffs and pretty good damage. A lot of that utility is pretty niche and isn’t going to be that useful in 80-90% of matchups. Storm also has niche utility but she has more ‘general’ utility. As in, countering evade, and two immunities
Havok’s good, but I think he’s overrated honestly. I barely use my R4. And his burst damage is good, but it’s also slow, taking his DPS way down, which is ultimately what matters. That’s why I rate storm higher
Well, as for havok, the mix of physical and energy attacks makes him versatile in different matchups, those non-contact mediums and heavy attacks are almost too useful! He's basically a low budget omega red in that regard. No thorns, no Korg damage, no electro shock damage, no plasma detonation damage too. I say low budget omega red because he can't disable spiked armor or limbo like omega can. He has that super nice energy resistance as well, and I disagree with you guys saying he's reliant on debuffs for he can control a fight without needing to place plasmas or use feedback. He doesn't need buffs either, so he's good for things like spite. When it comes to his debuffs, he's probably the champ that can comfortably stack the most amount of debuffs at a time in the game! I know there's others invisible woman, but it's not so "comfortable" to do. Add despair on top, and you've got healblock on your opponent like 80% of the time when you get into the fight. As for rampup, you can throw your SP 1 to drastically reduce the duration, and control the fight from early on. His energy resistance and energy related abilities allow him to counter physical resistance nodes or champs, counter havok himself, magik, both Magnetos, Korg, doctor strange, Claire, Doom, sorcerer supreme (I think), Iceman, bishop, infinity man, etc. He's incinerate immune, so he works against freezer burn, mephisto, and other similar situations. Probably the best option for special connoisseur, and he works very well with wasp and ghost, two other badasses!
I’m going to r2 wasp since I have ghost. Her attack is insane. But havok would definitely make a nice addition to those two! Does he need his dupe?
Nope, not at all! Mine's unduped and I use him everywhere!
Well, as for havok, the mix of physical and energy attacks makes him versatile in different matchups, those non-contact mediums and heavy attacks are almost too useful! He's basically a low budget omega red in that regard. No thorns, no Korg damage, no electro shock damage, no plasma detonation damage too. I say low budget omega red because he can't disable spiked armor or limbo like omega can. He has that super nice energy resistance as well, and I disagree with you guys saying he's reliant on debuffs for he can control a fight without needing to place plasmas or use feedback. He doesn't need buffs either, so he's good for things like spite. When it comes to his debuffs, he's probably the champ that can comfortably stack the most amount of debuffs at a time in the game! I know there's others invisible woman, but it's not so "comfortable" to do. Add despair on top, and you've got healblock on your opponent like 80% of the time when you get into the fight. As for rampup, you can throw your SP 1 to drastically reduce the duration, and control the fight from early on. His energy resistance and energy related abilities allow him to counter physical resistance nodes or champs, counter havok himself, magik, both Magnetos, Korg, doctor strange, Claire, Doom, sorcerer supreme (I think), Iceman, bishop, infinity man, etc. He's incinerate immune, so he works against freezer burn, mephisto, and other similar situations. Probably the best option for special connoisseur, and he works very well with wasp and ghost, two other badasses!
Well, storm on the other hand counters all shrug off mechanics from korg to masochism, she can fully counter emp modification and is an optimal choice for buffed up or prowess paths.
Her stun chance on all attacks is also a really great mechanic since it really compliments her agressive playstyle. She fully counters korg, mordo, you name it. Additionally if we look at max sig versions of both, a max/high sig storm is a really great option to use a revive go in and do as much damage as possible.
On top of that she's even an evade counter and a really special one at that. While yes you need to first land an sp1, her coldsnap is passive, which means she can easily counter debuff-immune evaders. Also, while really niche her sp1 also inflicts a passive slow over the duration of the special. With good timing that can easily disable timed unstoppable nodes.
Her and havok are only similar on the surface. They're both big special damage dealers.
If we look at their utility in detail then it's really up to your current roster. And quite frankly, simply having both at 5/65 or 2/35 would probably be the optimal choice anyways lol.
Yeah, I agree. Both in a team would have monstrous utility! Y'know, since they compliment each other so well. Unfortunately, I haven't been blessed with a pyramid X just yet...
This dude with this huge pool of 6*s asking on forums.
What’s wrong with picking people’s brains and creating discussion? Plenty of people out there who are smarter than I am. Plus I’m terrible at deciding and go back and forth between champs. But thanks for contributing.
Don't worry, mate. Your roster is genuinely a case of too many good options, so in my opinion it's a smart move to ask the community.
And I just love reading these kind of discussions. I always learn something.
So I’m down to sunspot, pyramid x, domino, or havok. 😂 I’m aq/aw heavy and usually use some combo of Corvus, Doom, Fury, Cap IW, Ghost, and Wasp. I don’t care much about prestige or Finishing AOL or LOL.
So I’m down to sunspot, pyramid x, domino, or havok. 😂 I’m aq/aw heavy and usually use some combo of Corvus, Doom, Fury, Cap IW, Ghost, and Wasp. I don’t care much about prestige or Finishing AOL or LOL.
I don't really see Domino's synergies in that team, so I'd go havok since he synergises well with ghost and wasp. He's the best option for map 5 torch imo, great for the Doom boss, counters all the doombots (the mystic and tech ones are a bit problematic because of power drain and/or armor up) since all their attacks are energy based, I believe. One of the best champs for this new war map. Havok is an absolute gee!
I mean, if you’re asking us to pick your next R3, you probably don’t need any champs. So go Storm. I love my 5/65. Just play her correctly. SP3 span instead of SP2. Turns her into Havok and is even more fun
You have so many good options though. My personal top choice would be Killmonger
Sp3 first and then sp2? Or just spam sp3?
Just spam SP3. The SP2 can output slightly bigger numbers but the crits basically never land whereas the SP3 is essentially guaranteed damage if you play aggressively.
My one can consistently throw 120k-140k SP3’s with suicides
That’s nuts. I’m not running suicides. Only glass cannon. But maybe I could still get 75k-80k?
12 prowess buffs, 68% heavy prowess and 12% sp3 bonus, as well as both tempests active of course. No suicides or boost and mainly crit synergies, nothing that should really change her sp3 damage output as far as I recall:
Her sp2 with 12 prowess buffs and a 100% heavy prowess should hit for close to 180k with all crits.
After having storm pyramix at 5/65 for a little while now I'd certainly rank her over havok. They're not massively far from each other, though.
She can do so many things aside from her great damage output, as rockypantherx already explained. And as she in my opinion outshines him in general usefulness and they both even have similar drawbacks, both need longer fights to be effective and where havok is reliant on debuffs storm is reliant on buffs, I'd comfortably say she has the edge over him.
Also hmm....
Lol that's not to say havok is bad or anything. And depending on your roster he could absolutely be the better option.
I think one way to look at it is this:
1. Do you rather need an incinerate immune champ or a shock/coldsnap immune champ?
2. If you need neither of those to fill a definite gap in your roster you can go on looking at their other utility aspects:
Main similarities: - They can both counter psychic thorns with havok being a little better (non-contact attacks) - They can both counter korg with storm pyramix being a little better (shrug off counter) - They can both deal massive special damage with havok relying on debuffs and storm relying on buffs
Main differences: - Havok allows for a more defensive playstyle - Storm requires a more agressive playstyle - Havok is better for stuff like disstrack - Storm is better for stuff like buffed up
Wait, she can counter psychic thorns? I did not know that. I do absolutely agree with all your points, in this post and subsequent ones. I did rank her over havok and I don’t regret it
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
After having storm pyramix at 5/65 for a little while now I'd certainly rank her over havok. They're not massively far from each other, though.
She can do so many things aside from her great damage output, as rockypantherx already explained. And as she in my opinion outshines him in general usefulness and they both even have similar drawbacks, both need longer fights to be effective and where havok is reliant on debuffs storm is reliant on buffs, I'd comfortably say she has the edge over him.
Also hmm....
Lol that's not to say havok is bad or anything. And depending on your roster he could absolutely be the better option.
I think one way to look at it is this:
1. Do you rather need an incinerate immune champ or a shock/coldsnap immune champ?
2. If you need neither of those to fill a definite gap in your roster you can go on looking at their other utility aspects:
Main similarities: - They can both counter psychic thorns with havok being a little better (non-contact attacks) - They can both counter korg with storm pyramix being a little better (shrug off counter) - They can both deal massive special damage with havok relying on debuffs and storm relying on buffs
Main differences: - Havok allows for a more defensive playstyle - Storm requires a more agressive playstyle - Havok is better for stuff like disstrack - Storm is better for stuff like buffed up
Wait, she can counter psychic thorns? I did not know that. I do absolutely agree with all your points, in this post and subsequent ones. I did rank her over havok and I don’t regret it
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
Please correct me if I'm wrong, that's definitely possible lol.
Psychic thorns deal thorns damage on physical attacks and heal you for a certain amount of damage done on non-contact attacks.
As far as I recall energy attacks bypass the thorns aspect, since that specifically works on physical attacks.
Since all her attacks deal energy damage she should fully bypass the thorns and her specials should heal any damage taken as those are definitely non-contact attacks.
Yeah I think her attacks are still contact attacks even though they deal energy damage. I assumed it works like Electro, who will give damage back to storm. I could be wrong as I’ve never played against that node
Looking back on some old threads about it some people are saying energy attacks work and some are saying they don’t. Does the node even exist anywhere in the game anymore? I don’t think it’s in any variants or act 6 and the war map has obviously changed
After having storm pyramix at 5/65 for a little while now I'd certainly rank her over havok. They're not massively far from each other, though.
She can do so many things aside from her great damage output, as rockypantherx already explained. And as she in my opinion outshines him in general usefulness and they both even have similar drawbacks, both need longer fights to be effective and where havok is reliant on debuffs storm is reliant on buffs, I'd comfortably say she has the edge over him.
Also hmm....
Lol that's not to say havok is bad or anything. And depending on your roster he could absolutely be the better option.
I think one way to look at it is this:
1. Do you rather need an incinerate immune champ or a shock/coldsnap immune champ?
2. If you need neither of those to fill a definite gap in your roster you can go on looking at their other utility aspects:
Main similarities: - They can both counter psychic thorns with havok being a little better (non-contact attacks) - They can both counter korg with storm pyramix being a little better (shrug off counter) - They can both deal massive special damage with havok relying on debuffs and storm relying on buffs
Main differences: - Havok allows for a more defensive playstyle - Storm requires a more agressive playstyle - Havok is better for stuff like disstrack - Storm is better for stuff like buffed up
Wait, she can counter psychic thorns? I did not know that. I do absolutely agree with all your points, in this post and subsequent ones. I did rank her over havok and I don’t regret it
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
As to actual content, I'm currently exploring act 6 and I'm halfway done with 6.2.5.
I used her on several occasions against all kinds of shrug off champs and once against the 6.2.5. mordo, which worked way better than I expected. She bypasses his astral evade, but spite got me after a while. With better baiting rng she could definitely solo that boss, though.
I also tried her against the 6.2.3. omega once. She's not the best against ikarus+limber, but she almost did him in with a lucky sp2. Ikarus killed me after that, though lol.
There are also some other paths I'm planning to use her on once I go into 6.3. and 6.4. exploration.
Sounds like a fair amount of uses, so that’s good to hear. I’ll be interested to see how you utilities her later on. I was personally testing her against the EMP mod path in 6.3.6 this morning just to check she works for that node. Thankfully she does and it’s not like Corvus
So I’m down to sunspot, pyramid x, domino, or havok. 😂 I’m aq/aw heavy and usually use some combo of Corvus, Doom, Fury, Cap IW, Ghost, and Wasp. I don’t care much about prestige or Finishing AOL or LOL.
And since Kill_Grey4112 sticks with havok I'm going to stick with pyramix just to finish what I've started lol.
In my opinion you won't go wrong with either of them.
Pyramix might be the better option for aw (defense) since she's still fairly new and can definitely catch players off guard on the right nodes. Havok is also still a great defender, but since guillotine and warlock are so cemented in today's aw offense meta he's easily countered.
Domino and sunspot are obviously great as well, though lol.
After having storm pyramix at 5/65 for a little while now I'd certainly rank her over havok. They're not massively far from each other, though.
She can do so many things aside from her great damage output, as rockypantherx already explained. And as she in my opinion outshines him in general usefulness and they both even have similar drawbacks, both need longer fights to be effective and where havok is reliant on debuffs storm is reliant on buffs, I'd comfortably say she has the edge over him.
Also hmm....
Lol that's not to say havok is bad or anything. And depending on your roster he could absolutely be the better option.
I think one way to look at it is this:
1. Do you rather need an incinerate immune champ or a shock/coldsnap immune champ?
2. If you need neither of those to fill a definite gap in your roster you can go on looking at their other utility aspects:
Main similarities: - They can both counter psychic thorns with havok being a little better (non-contact attacks) - They can both counter korg with storm pyramix being a little better (shrug off counter) - They can both deal massive special damage with havok relying on debuffs and storm relying on buffs
Main differences: - Havok allows for a more defensive playstyle - Storm requires a more agressive playstyle - Havok is better for stuff like disstrack - Storm is better for stuff like buffed up
Wait, she can counter psychic thorns? I did not know that. I do absolutely agree with all your points, in this post and subsequent ones. I did rank her over havok and I don’t regret it
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
Please correct me if I'm wrong, that's definitely possible lol.
Psychic thorns deal thorns damage on physical attacks and heal you for a certain amount of damage done on non-contact attacks.
As far as I recall energy attacks bypass the thorns aspect, since that specifically works on physical attacks.
Since all her attacks deal energy damage she should fully bypass the thorns and her specials should heal any damage taken as those are definitely non-contact attacks.
Yeah I think her attacks are still contact attacks even though they deal energy damage. I assumed it works like Electro, who will give damage back to storm. I could be wrong as I’ve never played against that node
Looking back on some old threads about it some people are saying energy attacks work and some are saying they don’t. Does the node even exist anywhere in the game anymore? I don’t think it’s in any variants or act 6 and the war map has obviously changed
Pretty sure energy attacks bypassed it. I think it was specified that physical contact attacks = thorns damage and non-contact attacks = healing.
But you're right, I don't think that node is actually currently present.
After having storm pyramix at 5/65 for a little while now I'd certainly rank her over havok. They're not massively far from each other, though.
She can do so many things aside from her great damage output, as rockypantherx already explained. And as she in my opinion outshines him in general usefulness and they both even have similar drawbacks, both need longer fights to be effective and where havok is reliant on debuffs storm is reliant on buffs, I'd comfortably say she has the edge over him.
Also hmm....
Lol that's not to say havok is bad or anything. And depending on your roster he could absolutely be the better option.
I think one way to look at it is this:
1. Do you rather need an incinerate immune champ or a shock/coldsnap immune champ?
2. If you need neither of those to fill a definite gap in your roster you can go on looking at their other utility aspects:
Main similarities: - They can both counter psychic thorns with havok being a little better (non-contact attacks) - They can both counter korg with storm pyramix being a little better (shrug off counter) - They can both deal massive special damage with havok relying on debuffs and storm relying on buffs
Main differences: - Havok allows for a more defensive playstyle - Storm requires a more agressive playstyle - Havok is better for stuff like disstrack - Storm is better for stuff like buffed up
Wait, she can counter psychic thorns? I did not know that. I do absolutely agree with all your points, in this post and subsequent ones. I did rank her over havok and I don’t regret it
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
As to actual content, I'm currently exploring act 6 and I'm halfway done with 6.2.5.
I used her on several occasions against all kinds of shrug off champs and once against the 6.2.5. mordo, which worked way better than I expected. She bypasses his astral evade, but spite got me after a while. With better baiting rng she could definitely solo that boss, though.
I also tried her against the 6.2.3. omega once. She's not the best against ikarus+limber, but she almost did him in with a lucky sp2. Ikarus killed me after that, though lol.
There are also some other paths I'm planning to use her on once I go into 6.3. and 6.4. exploration.
Sounds like a fair amount of uses, so that’s good to hear. I’ll be interested to see how you utilities her later on. I was personally testing her against the EMP mod path in 6.3.6 this morning just to check she works for that node. Thankfully she does and it’s not like Corvus
Oh yes, that's one of the paths I was planning to use her on. With her thunder tempest she has 100% damage reduction for all incoming shock effects, both debuffs and passive effects.
I’m going to make a note to test it if that node ever appears again. I kind of hope it does now just so I can test it. But yeah, her shock immunity is better than shock immunity. Can get that willpower heal if it’s a debuff.
Comments
He has that super nice energy resistance as well, and I disagree with you guys saying he's reliant on debuffs for he can control a fight without needing to place plasmas or use feedback. He doesn't need buffs either, so he's good for things like spite. When it comes to his debuffs, he's probably the champ that can comfortably stack the most amount of debuffs at a time in the game! I know there's others invisible woman, but it's not so "comfortable" to do. Add despair on top, and you've got healblock on your opponent like 80% of the time when you get into the fight.
As for rampup, you can throw your SP 1 to drastically reduce the duration, and control the fight from early on. His energy resistance and energy related abilities allow him to counter physical resistance nodes or champs, counter havok himself, magik, both Magnetos, Korg, doctor strange, Claire, Doom, sorcerer supreme (I think), Iceman, bishop, infinity man, etc.
He's incinerate immune, so he works against freezer burn, mephisto, and other similar situations.
Probably the best option for special connoisseur, and he works very well with wasp and ghost, two other badasses!
That said, I’ve not had any content to truly test her in since I’ve done everything but Abyss. Might see if I can get some testing done in Variant 5 depending on how it shapes up
Looking back on some old threads about it some people are saying energy attacks work and some are saying they don’t. Does the node even exist anywhere in the game anymore? I don’t think it’s in any variants or act 6 and the war map has obviously changed
Are suicide friendly