Defender diversity [Merged Threads]

BOO8sBOO8s Posts: 42
edited September 13 in General Discussion
If DD is going to now be where wars are won and lost, the the BG specific, scoring may have been a happy accident. Please leave it this way and do NOT make it across the entire alliance.
Again wars will be won and lost this way and it is difficult enough to coordinate 50 unique defenders, and tell ppl they can't place their best champs because it hurts your ally more than it helps. Not to mention there are not 150 champs in the game, but the thing is you can only fight in one BG anyway so if the goal is to get us fighting different champs, BG specific diversity accomplishes that without making 99.9% of everyone's defenders useless
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  • GriffoplayGriffoplay Posts: 10
    edited September 13
    Hi All!
    we all have rancked up our heroes and we do it with the clear intention to have:
    a) a strong attack
    b) a strong defence

    Now a strong defence is near to useless and what really count is diversity. that is not fair to change the rules after we all invest a lot of resource (time+Money) in the process. Now a 5* r4 Iceman give me the same point of a 3* one (defence ratring is so low that is better a diversity point then a defence rating).

    What the hell I have rancked up nightcrawler, spiderman, agent venom ecc ecc. What can I tell to my team mate now? I suggest to ranck up some heroes over other ones.

    I ask for the re-introduction of defensive kills and/or the possibility to ranck-down our heroes. the second one is not possible, you will have to give a lot of ranck down ticket (as many as 5* r3 an d r4 and as many as 4* r4 and r5 at last).

    PS:
    It needs the very first run in the new war map to know it can be better to not place heroes at all. How can't you have test this? incompetenti per non dire altro
  • AfridAfrid Posts: 255
    Griffoplay wrote: »
    incompetenti per non dire altro
    I don't know what this means but I agree with the rest of it
  • Afrid wrote: »
    Griffoplay wrote: »
    incompetenti per non dire altro
    I don't know what this means

    italian flame vs kabam issue and choices :) , but i think all want defensive kills ! not rollback back a "little" change!
  • Since the revamp AW has come out, all i see is that people are not happy with it. Why not listen to all these posts? Geez. its like you think you've built a better mouse trap and don't listen to anyone. Guess what? it sucks. IF you are going to stick with this at least increase the rewards for such a terrible map and point system. Please listen to everyone and do something!
  • the diversity change is a $$$$$ ploy to get people to rank up crappy champs that you never use it's that simple
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    You're wasting your breath. Your choice is to get your alliance to suck it up or kick them. That's where we are. Just accept there's no such thing as a good defensive champ now. They all equally suck.
  • BOO8sBOO8s Posts: 42
    I could probably name 40-50 good/ alright enough, defenders just off the top of my head, but as I said dont think there are even 150 champs total
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    There aren't. But you're missing the point. They want peopl to buy more crystals to get more points. This change only benefits the people who buy crystals.

    You are taking this from the standpoint of trying to make war competitive.

    That's not the point to this change.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    Yep. Rank up champs and buy more crystals. Then in 6 months to a year, once the whales have ranked up their spider gwens and luke cages and opened all of their t4cc crystals, they can introduce r5 champs and 6* champs then sell reources to rank those up since all of the existing resources were spent. Then they can can change war again to encourage more spending.
  • MadMarksMadMarks Posts: 99
    edited September 13
    I have been one of the most critical opponents of Kabam's game design, But I actually like the direction AW is going. Yes it is broken and still not totally flushed out. (But the designers obviously don't play at high levels and don't have a thorough understanding of game nuances) But it is actually more fun then before. They still need to adjust it though, I think the diversity angle is a great idea, it still needs some flushing out though.
    I like the fact that you are rewarded for using diverse champs, this will eventually allow them to gather data on numerous champs so they can easily determine how terrible most of these champs really are, that will lead them to buff some champs up. I still think some things need to be changed like dexterity triggering MD over and over.
    AW was bad when changed recently, but it was a huge upgrade over the ridiculous format prior. The fact is our ally has been more engage in AW from start to finish recently then in the past, mainly because it isn't over in the first few hours, like it was in the past. Diversity is a good thing, I like it, it makes AW more fun to play and makes having a large champ roster somewhat useful.
  • ShrimkinsShrimkins Posts: 259
    Pretty much my sentiment as well. Obviously the scoring system needs further tweaking but I like the direction it's going in.

    The new map is pretty cool but I think there could be a couple improvements to it as well.
  • I think Kabam's biggest problem is they try to do these large sweeping changes, instead of focusing on many incremental improvements based on player feedback. Anytime large sweeping change is implemented in any business, most will reject the change. Plus there is a good change the change won't be rolled out flawlessly further diminishing the intended effect of the change. Throw the player base a bone, send out some t4b and t4c just to allow players to upgrade some champs to adapt to the new change. It is just a way of saying, "We are listening"
  • GbSarkarGbSarkar Posts: 487
    Only thing that needs improvement is the scoring system. I liked the per BG diversity. Whole alliance diversity would just put pressure on players to rank up high PI unique champs. This is why defender kills should be reintroduced. When both alliances start maxing diversity and exploration, defender rating SHOULD NOT be the tie breaker. Really hope they don't change AW again because of a bunch of people crying
  • rwhackrwhack Posts: 163
    So we need to rank up shehulk and use her so they realize how useless she is? Really?
  • KoperBoyKoperBoy Posts: 92
    edited September 13
    GbSarkar wrote: »
    Only thing that needs improvement is the scoring system. I liked the per BG diversity. Whole alliance diversity would just put pressure on players to rank up high PI unique champs. This is why defender kills should be reintroduced. When both alliances start maxing diversity and exploration, defender rating SHOULD NOT be the tie breaker. Really hope they don't change AW again because of a bunch of people crying

    Exactly. If defender rating is a tiebreaker, it means winning the race for ranking up all champs across the board faster than opponent is the only way to win AW. Do we really want AW to come to this?
  • #BringBackDefenderKillPoints

    Without defender kill points, Alliance War will never be as strategic/competitive/FUN.

    New Diversity Parade/War is just a different version of Alliance Quest.
  • MadMarksMadMarks Posts: 99
    edited September 13
    It isn't honest when a player says that the entire point of changes is to make money and make someones life miserable. Anyone who knows my posts, knows I have been one of the most critical people against Kabam. But i try to base everything I say off of logic and facts.

    @Run477 , seems to me that you liked the old format and any change to that format would make you unhappy. Well the facts are the old format wasn't working well for the majority of the player base as well as Kabams revenue stream. Hence why there was a change.

    So while I appreciate your thoughts, it seems like any change would have been bad for you. So arguing for the status quo is most likely a losing proposition.
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 221
    edited September 13
    MadMarks wrote: »
    I have been one of the most critical opponents of Kabam's game design, But I actually like the direction AW is going. Yes it is broken and still not totally flushed out. (But the designers obviously don't play at high levels and don't have a thorough understanding of game nuances) But it is actually more fun then before. They still need to adjust it though, I think the diversity angle is a great idea, it still needs some flushing out though.
    I like the fact that you are rewarded for using diverse champs, this will eventually allow them to gather data on numerous champs so they can easily determine how terrible most of these champs really are, that will lead them to buff some champs up. I still think some things need to be changed like dexterity triggering MD over and over.
    AW was bad when changed recently, but it was a huge upgrade over the ridiculous format prior. The fact is our ally has been more engage in AW from start to finish recently then in the past, mainly because it isn't over in the first few hours, like it was in the past. Diversity is a good thing, I like it, it makes AW more fun to play and makes having a large champ roster somewhat useful.

    ...and one your alliance grows and eventually gets to the point where both alliances in a war easily 100% all maps, you'll see why the new Alliance 'muh diversity' Wars is so boring/awful.

    #BringBackDefenderKillPoints
  • MadMarks wrote: »
    It isn't honest when a player says that the entire point of changes is to make money and make someones life miserable. Anyone who knows my posts, knows I have been one of the most critical people against Kabam. But i try to base everything I say off of logic and facts.

    @Run477 , seems to me that you liked the old format and any change to that format would make you unhappy. Well the facts are the old format wasn't working well for the majority of the player base as well as Kabams revenue stream. Hence why there was a change.

    So while I appreciate your thoughts, it seems like any change would have been bad for you. So arguing for the status quo is most likely a losing proposition.

    Don't bother talking with him. He just posts like he's the sole authority on everything in the most condescending way. Even when he's right, he manages to be wrong.
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    MadMarks wrote: »
    It isn't honest when a player says that the entire point of changes is to make money and make someones life miserable. Anyone who knows my posts, knows I have been one of the most critical people against Kabam. But i try to base everything I say off of logic and facts.

    @Run477 , seems to me that you liked the old format and any change to that format would make you unhappy. Well the facts are the old format wasn't working well for the majority of the player base as well as Kabams revenue stream. Hence why there was a change.

    So while I appreciate your thoughts, it seems like any change would have been bad for you. So arguing for the status quo is most likely a losing proposition.

    False. I would have welcomed getting rid of nodes that were nothing but guaranteed damage where skill and champ choice really couldn't avoid it. When they nerfed bw, thorns should have been gone. You can use pacify mastery and u can use voodoo and even bw/Elektra/quake, but it's a totally bs tile. Same goes for slashed tires. Power start 1 with all or nothing. Even at max md magik couldn't reach an l2 before Hyperion. Maybe a max duped vision could keep up? The only champ would be, if you got really lucky, was switch (and she would have gotten around it before her nerf).

    To be clear, I'm not even talking about changing player abilities (i.e. Magik, iceman, dormamu, electro, etc) where damage is essentially guaranteed regardless of skill. Every champ at least has some kind of counter (although every champ on status immune is really tough and likely guaranteed damage--I would have welcomed changing that to stun immune).

    What I'm NOT okay with is screwing people over who put resources into champs/masteries bc individuals like yourself didn't want to do the same. I also disagree with your statement that it wasn't working for the majority of the player base. Until this "honest" post, I have seen mostly negative comments. You can speculate on how others who don't post on here feel, but I would posit that the people posting on here are the ones that play the game the most.

    I get it. You don't like mystic dispersion bc you don't want to attack with power control champs (FYI: magik, voodoo, vision, Hawkeye, etc will beat champs with mystic dispersion). You don't like nightcrawler/spidey bc you aren't patient enough to fight them properly. I'm sure you are loving these changes as a result bc you get to fight spider Gwen on a +75% attack node. Joy!

    The new war map is a joke. If kabam would at least add in more unblokcbale specials and make diversity scoring bg specific, that would be a start to fixing it. You could at least try to formulate a coherent defense that way. But they aren't.

    Their response to criticism has been the following:

    1. "fix" their mistake and make diversity score across the alliance not bg specific. Therefore defenses are even more watered down (on easier nodes) than they already are. The only reason for this is to permit those people who buy the most crystals to have the advantage in winning wars. Maybe that blantantly open profit motive will work in their favor. Until kabam reaches 153 playable champs, the alliances that have red deadpool, thanos, and kang (and whoever the newest champ in the featured crystal is) are almost guaranteed to win each war regardless of skill. How is this "better?" It replaces skill with cash. It's better for kabam I guess.

    2. To make "diversity" worth 2.5x more than attack kills. The "given" reason was that it was "unfair" to lose to non-placed defenses--or alliances refused to read the new rules and do basic math. Hogwash. The reason it was changed was bc of #1 reason change. With changing to diversity across all 3 bgs, the best chance to win would be to only place your diverse defenders (bc a non-diverse defender placed was worth 50 but kill worth 150). Now, attacker kills and defenders placed are equal. So the new "best" strategy is 100% diversity, place all defenders, and hope you have the highest defender rating. Again, how is this "better" besides for kabam?

    This map is so easy that nearly all alliances with moderate skill should be able to 100% in all bgs.

    Does that answer your "honest" question?
  • They should just leave it so diversity just goes by BG since there's clearly not 150 unique champs, let alone that many that are good for defense. Maybe make it so bosses have to be diverse for whole alliance so each final block isn't the same. Even if they were though, who cares? You aren't fighting every bg so why should bg1 have to deal with magik but not bg2?
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    MadMarks wrote: »
    It isn't honest when a player says that the entire point of changes is to make money and make someones life miserable. Anyone who knows my posts, knows I have been one of the most critical people against Kabam. But i try to base everything I say off of logic and facts.

    @Run477 , seems to me that you liked the old format and any change to that format would make you unhappy. Well the facts are the old format wasn't working well for the majority of the player base as well as Kabams revenue stream. Hence why there was a change.

    So while I appreciate your thoughts, it seems like any change would have been bad for you. So arguing for the status quo is most likely a losing proposition.

    Don't bother talking with him. He just posts like he's the sole authority on everything in the most condescending way. Even when he's right, he manages to be wrong.

    To be fair, I don't mean to be condescending. I just try to make my point and when someone disagrees in a way that I take as condescending, I get my panties in a twist. I'm trying to be more constructive! @KhanMedina

    But if you can't tell, I'm pretty fired up about a change that is so blatantly and obviously aimed at doing nothing but encouraging the buying of more crustals, essentially encouraging gambling addictions.
  • RixobRixob Posts: 47
    Be careful what you say, kabam is out here threatning to ban people and delete accounts for posts like this
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 58
    Without defender kills, wars are just a showcase for how many unique defenders one can put in. Many of the wars in my alliance's range (war rating in the 900-1100) will have 3* champs and rank 3 unduped 4* just so they can max out diversity. Who wants to fight 3* champs with their rank 5 4*? It's going to be silly.
  • lets complain about fighting the same champs over and over like magik, mordo, nc, spidey.. kabam fixes that now lets complain about champion diversity... typical

    It is not a complain about diversity point. that is a nice introduction. It is a complain about our resource: we rancked up accordantly to the old rules. now those rules are gone and there is no point placing 5 mordo, 5 magik, five nc and so on.
    Read the discussion and reply accordantly, not just for a +1 in your post numbers
  • MSRDLD wrote: »
    Without defender kills, wars are just a showcase for how many unique defenders one can put in. Many of the wars in my alliance's range (war rating in the 900-1100) will have 3* champs and rank 3 unduped 4* just so they can max out diversity. Who wants to fight 3* champs with their rank 5 4*? It's going to be silly.

    Question: Who wants to fight a war filled with mystic champs?

    If it's not Magik, it's Nightcrawler, Hyperion, Hood, Mordo, Dorammau, Spider-Man, Iceman. Defender kills didn't show any skill or strategy to alliance war. And at the 1100 range I know damn well every war boss is a nightcrawler. You can only fight a hero so much before you say enough is enough.
  • Griffoplay wrote: »
    lets complain about fighting the same champs over and over like magik, mordo, nc, spidey.. kabam fixes that now lets complain about champion diversity... typical

    It is not a complain about diversity point. that is a nice introduction. It is a complain about our resource: we rancked up accordantly to the old rules. now those rules are gone and there is no point placing 5 mordo, 5 magik, five nc and so on.
    Read the discussion and reply accordantly, not just for a +1 in your post numbers

    the strong champs don't matter cuz the war nodes are garbage.. just put in different champs for diversity points they don't need to be rank 5 so don't worry about it
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 388
    Look, kabam wants you to spend resources on new champs and buy more crystals. That's what this change is about. You're not getting rank down tickets so you can use resources already spent to rank up different champs. Accept it.

    Why do you think there have been so many "deals" lately for crystals and resources. That's all this is about!
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