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Only Change to New EQ

PulliPulli Posts: 116 ★
in General Discussion
The new Cavalier difficulty is nearly perfect.

It's pretty similar to act five, in the way that they require you to bring in certain Champions to deal more damage, and if you don't well, you're just going to be spending more time in the quest.

For those who say it's too restrictive... That is completely false.

The only kind of restriction in these quest is obviously the Buffed Up and Diss Track nodes.

People are saying that the difficulty needs to be tweaked, but honestly the only thing that needs tweaking is these two nodes. And I don't think that Kabam should take these nodes out as they are challenging and AT times... fun.

Levelling.

Kabam has done this in a good chunk of its nodes, and I think they should do the same thing for these two nodes.

For both buffed up and diss track nodes I find the Easy Path in the quest should be, for example... Buffed up level one; where you only need one buff in order to do damage.

And for the remainder of the quest you can have buffed up level two and for the harder paths buffed up level 3.


Scaling:


Another good way is to scale the damage based on how many buffs or debuffa you're applying.


So the node could go like this...

Your Champions deal 90% less damage.

However with each buff/debuff applied to the defender grants you a 30% attack increase.
Max stacks: 3

For these two different scenarios it's either you require less buffs or debuffs in order to do the figh,t which opens up more champions for you to be able to use, or you deal less damage unless you gain or deal the required buffs/debuffs in order to give your full damage.

Which is along the lines of act 5 where if you didn't bring in a specific class then you receive less attack.

The whole point of end game content should be follow the nodes that give you the bonuses, or suffer the consequences by dealing far less damage.

Which will make the content doable, but much more time consuming.

Let me know what you guys think of the two down below.

Comments

  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    It’s been a long time since I did act 5 but I don’t remember any of these type of fights in act 5. I don’t think it’s a typo either because you said it a few times.

    If I remember correctly act 5 was buffet, masochism, flare, power shield and class reversal.
  • PulliPulli Posts: 116 ★
    Panchulon21 said:

    It’s been a long time since I did act 5 but I don’t remember any of these type of fights in act 5. I don’t think it’s a typo either because you said it a few times.

    If I remember correctly act 5 was buffet, masochism, flare, power shield and class reversal.


  • PulliPulli Posts: 116 ★
    PullinBtchez said:

    Panchulon21 said:

    It’s been a long time since I did act 5 but I don’t remember any of these type of fights in act 5. I don’t think it’s a typo either because you said it a few times.

    If I remember correctly act 5 was buffet, masochism, flare, power shield and class reversal.


    That's Act 5.3.3 Quest. X-Gene node is what I'm talking about
  • Kill_GreyKill_Grey Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    Panchulon21 said:

    It’s been a long time since I did act 5 but I don’t remember any of these type of fights in act 5. I don’t think it’s a typo either because you said it a few times.

    If I remember correctly act 5 was buffet, masochism, flare, power shield and class reversal.

    Including burden of might, life transfer and bane
  • 16wegnerk16wegnerk Posts: 210 ★★
    PullinBtchez said:

    The new Cavalier difficulty is nearly perfect.

    It's pretty similar to act five, in the way that they require you to bring in certain Champions to deal more damage, and if you don't well, you're just going to be spending more time in the quest.

    For those who say it's too restrictive... That is completely false.

    The only kind of restriction in these quest is obviously the Buffed Up and Diss Track nodes.

    People are saying that the difficulty needs to be tweaked, but honestly the only thing that needs tweaking is these two nodes. And I don't think that Kabam should take these nodes out as they are challenging and AT times... fun.

    Levelling.

    Kabam has done this in a good chunk of its nodes, and I think they should do the same thing for these two nodes.

    For both buffed up and diss track nodes I find the Easy Path in the quest should be, for example... Buffed up level one; where you only need one buff in order to do damage.

    And for the remainder of the quest you can have buffed up level two and for the harder paths buffed up level 3.


    Scaling:


    Another good way is to scale the damage based on how many buffs or debuffa you're applying.


    So the node could go like this...

    Your Champions deal 90% less damage.

    However with each buff/debuff applied to the defender grants you a 30% attack increase.
    Max stacks: 3

    For these two different scenarios it's either you require less buffs or debuffs in order to do the figh,t which opens up more champions for you to be able to use, or you deal less damage unless you gain or deal the required buffs/debuffs in order to give your full damage.

    Which is along the lines of act 5 where if you didn't bring in a specific class then you receive less attack.

    The whole point of end game content should be follow the nodes that give you the bonuses, or suffer the consequences by dealing far less damage.

    Which will make the content doable, but much more time consuming.

    Let me know what you guys think of the two down below.

    I really hate the “do X or deal 90% less damage” nodes because while it sounds good in theory, it opens up the possibility for incredibly restrictive combinations down the road. If you only deal damage with buffs, eventually there will be that node set up on a champion that always nullifies your buffs. (And yes there are a few options to counter that, but still.) If you need to apply debuffs, there will be a taskmaster or rogue. If you need to apply poison, there will be a mysterio. If you only deal bleed damage they will put emma, rogue, etc. (too soon?) etc. etc. etc. These nodes only work if the community can trust Kabam to not put these nodes with characters that make it even more restrictive, and historically they’ve proven to break that trust.

    Also, the challenge of buffed up lies in getting and maintaining multiple buffs. I could potentially see it working with only needing 2 buffs, but then it’s possible to do with any champ as long as you have heimdal synergies. Not much of a challenge then. Having only 1 buff required makes it too open ended, and then it becomes a node that can simply be ignored. (Or requires minimal planning)

    I like the idea of an easy path with a tuned down version of the nodes, but certainly don’t tune them down to the point of being overlooked. But having easy, medium, and hard paths doesn’t make sense to me since the medium paths don’t get you any additional rewards like completion or exploration does. And if you can counter 2-3 paths of the quest, with the way it’s currently set up that means that you can likely 100% as well.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 849 ★★★★
    But the act 5 class nodes don’t actually allow you to do more damage. It simply means any other class is hampered with 50% attack reduction. So one the X-Gene example, your mutant champions function as is. Champions of the other 5 classes can be used but with 50% less attack.

    These nodes in Cav EQ (and Act 6) are different in that they do actually benefit the right class. What’s great about them is that they don’t penalise any other class. Much prefer this to the Act 5 nodes if I’m honest.
  • PulliPulli Posts: 116 ★
    16wegnerk said:

    PullinBtchez said:

    The new Cavalier difficulty is nearly perfect.

    It's pretty similar to act five, in the way that they require you to bring in certain Champions to deal more damage, and if you don't well, you're just going to be spending more time in the quest.

    For those who say it's too restrictive... That is completely false.

    The only kind of restriction in these quest is obviously the Buffed Up and Diss Track nodes.

    People are saying that the difficulty needs to be tweaked, but honestly the only thing that needs tweaking is these two nodes. And I don't think that Kabam should take these nodes out as they are challenging and AT times... fun.

    Levelling.

    Kabam has done this in a good chunk of its nodes, and I think they should do the same thing for these two nodes.

    For both buffed up and diss track nodes I find the Easy Path in the quest should be, for example... Buffed up level one; where you only need one buff in order to do damage.

    And for the remainder of the quest you can have buffed up level two and for the harder paths buffed up level 3.


    Scaling:


    Another good way is to scale the damage based on how many buffs or debuffa you're applying.


    So the node could go like this...

    Your Champions deal 90% less damage.

    However with each buff/debuff applied to the defender grants you a 30% attack increase.
    Max stacks: 3

    For these two different scenarios it's either you require less buffs or debuffs in order to do the figh,t which opens up more champions for you to be able to use, or you deal less damage unless you gain or deal the required buffs/debuffs in order to give your full damage.

    Which is along the lines of act 5 where if you didn't bring in a specific class then you receive less attack.

    The whole point of end game content should be follow the nodes that give you the bonuses, or suffer the consequences by dealing far less damage.

    Which will make the content doable, but much more time consuming.

    Let me know what you guys think of the two down below.

    I really hate the “do X or deal 90% less damage” nodes because while it sounds good in theory, it opens up the possibility for incredibly restrictive combinations down the road. If you only deal damage with buffs, eventually there will be that node set up on a champion that always nullifies your buffs. (And yes there are a few options to counter that, but still.) If you need to apply debuffs, there will be a taskmaster or rogue. If you need to apply poison, there will be a mysterio. If you only deal bleed damage they will put emma, rogue, etc. (too soon?) etc. etc. etc. These nodes only work if the community can trust Kabam to not put these nodes with characters that make it even more restrictive, and historically they’ve proven to break that trust.

    Also, the challenge of buffed up lies in getting and maintaining multiple buffs. I could potentially see it working with only needing 2 buffs, but then it’s possible to do with any champ as long as you have heimdal synergies. Not much of a challenge then. Having only 1 buff required makes it too open ended, and then it becomes a node that can simply be ignored. (Or requires minimal planning)

    I like the idea of an easy path with a tuned down version of the nodes, but certainly don’t tune them down to the point of being overlooked. But having easy, medium, and hard paths doesn’t make sense to me since the medium paths don’t get you any additional rewards like completion or exploration does. And if you can counter 2-3 paths of the quest, with the way it’s currently set up that means that you can likely 100% as well.
    I see where you're coming from and you did raise some very strong points, but I don't think the type of restrictions you're talking about, on the type of nodes that I'm proposing will be an issue.

    The content in the game is what gives people rewards, and if the content is not doable, or if the rewards from the content are terrible, then we all know that there's a chance that some of the players will quit.

    Kabam is doing some really good things by creating fun interactive nodes as well as the future of them buffing up their old champions.

    So them placing a champion who will nullify your buffs on a buffed up node will probably never happen. (let's hope not).

    The community, right now, is very strong. And if they're displeased with the type of content (being nearly impossible without a certain counter) or if they're rewarded poorly then the community will get together and say, give us what we want or we quit.

    And we can see that Kabam does not want this because of what they're doing with their content now and their old Champions being buffed.

    So if they do put a type of note that you can only deal damage through bleed or any of the other kind of restrictions that you have said, and they put a champ on that note that will negate or cancel out any of the damage, then people will complain and Kabam will need to fix it or they will face a lot of people threatening to quit.

    They will try their best to make the content challenging for those who like a challenge, and doable for those free to play or low paying players who don't have every counter in the game, so that they can please as many people as possible in the game
  • 16wegnerk16wegnerk Posts: 210 ★★
    PullinBtchez said:

    16wegnerk said:

    PullinBtchez said:

    The new Cavalier difficulty is nearly perfect.

    It's pretty similar to act five, in the way that they require you to bring in certain Champions to deal more damage, and if you don't well, you're just going to be spending more time in the quest.

    For those who say it's too restrictive... That is completely false.

    The only kind of restriction in these quest is obviously the Buffed Up and Diss Track nodes.

    People are saying that the difficulty needs to be tweaked, but honestly the only thing that needs tweaking is these two nodes. And I don't think that Kabam should take these nodes out as they are challenging and AT times... fun.

    Levelling.

    Kabam has done this in a good chunk of its nodes, and I think they should do the same thing for these two nodes.

    For both buffed up and diss track nodes I find the Easy Path in the quest should be, for example... Buffed up level one; where you only need one buff in order to do damage.

    And for the remainder of the quest you can have buffed up level two and for the harder paths buffed up level 3.


    Scaling:


    Another good way is to scale the damage based on how many buffs or debuffa you're applying.


    So the node could go like this...

    Your Champions deal 90% less damage.

    However with each buff/debuff applied to the defender grants you a 30% attack increase.
    Max stacks: 3

    For these two different scenarios it's either you require less buffs or debuffs in order to do the figh,t which opens up more champions for you to be able to use, or you deal less damage unless you gain or deal the required buffs/debuffs in order to give your full damage.

    Which is along the lines of act 5 where if you didn't bring in a specific class then you receive less attack.

    The whole point of end game content should be follow the nodes that give you the bonuses, or suffer the consequences by dealing far less damage.

    Which will make the content doable, but much more time consuming.

    Let me know what you guys think of the two down below.

    I really hate the “do X or deal 90% less damage” nodes because while it sounds good in theory, it opens up the possibility for incredibly restrictive combinations down the road. If you only deal damage with buffs, eventually there will be that node set up on a champion that always nullifies your buffs. (And yes there are a few options to counter that, but still.) If you need to apply debuffs, there will be a taskmaster or rogue. If you need to apply poison, there will be a mysterio. If you only deal bleed damage they will put emma, rogue, etc. (too soon?) etc. etc. etc. These nodes only work if the community can trust Kabam to not put these nodes with characters that make it even more restrictive, and historically they’ve proven to break that trust.

    Also, the challenge of buffed up lies in getting and maintaining multiple buffs. I could potentially see it working with only needing 2 buffs, but then it’s possible to do with any champ as long as you have heimdal synergies. Not much of a challenge then. Having only 1 buff required makes it too open ended, and then it becomes a node that can simply be ignored. (Or requires minimal planning)

    I like the idea of an easy path with a tuned down version of the nodes, but certainly don’t tune them down to the point of being overlooked. But having easy, medium, and hard paths doesn’t make sense to me since the medium paths don’t get you any additional rewards like completion or exploration does. And if you can counter 2-3 paths of the quest, with the way it’s currently set up that means that you can likely 100% as well.
    I see where you're coming from and you did raise some very strong points, but I don't think the type of restrictions you're talking about, on the type of nodes that I'm proposing will be an issue.

    The content in the game is what gives people rewards, and if the content is not doable, or if the rewards from the content are terrible, then we all know that there's a chance that some of the players will quit.

    Kabam is doing some really good things by creating fun interactive nodes as well as the future of them buffing up their old champions.

    So them placing a champion who will nullify your buffs on a buffed up node will probably never happen. (let's hope not).

    The community, right now, is very strong. And if they're displeased with the type of content (being nearly impossible without a certain counter) or if they're rewarded poorly then the community will get together and say, give us what we want or we quit.

    And we can see that Kabam does not want this because of what they're doing with their content now and their old Champions being buffed.

    So if they do put a type of note that you can only deal damage through bleed or any of the other kind of restrictions that you have said, and they put a champ on that note that will negate or cancel out any of the damage, then people will complain and Kabam will need to fix it or they will face a lot of people threatening to quit.

    They will try their best to make the content challenging for those who like a challenge, and doable for those free to play or low paying players who don't have every counter in the game, so that they can please as many people as possible in the game
    I agree that Kabam is definitely moving in the right direction, and that the Cavalier difficulty nodes were very fun, and benefitted the player.

    But i’m giving examples that we do see in game, still, despite lots of community annoyance/uproar. Look at the “do you bleed” path in 6.2.6, it’s still there with emma, killmonger, ghost, and rogue. Acidwash mysterio is still in game (i just fought him recently, it was awful). So that’s why i’m hesitant to support the idea of the nodes you recommended, I actually prefer it with the current buffed up/diss track nodes. I was able to do diss track with 4* medusa and synergies (heavy twice for permanent armor breaks, then fight normally), and buffed up isn’t hard with even a 4* hyperion or medusa, CMM, etc. i prefer the nodes as is vs trying to implement a new “90% reduced attack unless _____” node, since they have such a history of being annoying and turning from fun to extra restrictive
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