Please note that when we enable the 1 Loyalty Cost for Revives in Alliance Wars for Season 34, they will not be visible from the screen that appears when you choose to Revive or Heal a Champion from the Fight Screen.

You will be able to purchase Revives from the Loyalty tab in the Store Menu.

Are Defender Champs Still Worth Ranking Up?

So I'm sure this is a problem many people have noticed but the Kabam AW statement that was given via Kabam Miiike did not really address if Defender Kill Points could possibly make a return to Alliance Wars. It's a problem that goes far beyond just Alliance Wars, it goes against Kabam's entire goal from 12.0

One of the main reasons many champions were nerfed in 12.0 was because Kabam wanted the players to use and focus on different champions rather than the 6 "god-tier" champions in the game (Most of which were offense champions). Alliance Wars helped greatly to accomplish this goal. People were not only focusing on strong attack champions, they were also focusing greatly on strong defenders. People began ranking up champions who stood out in defense. Mordos, Nightcrawlers, Spidermen, Juggernauts, Unstoppable Colossus, etc. The list could go on and on.

The problem we have now is that those champions are very close to useless now. With defense no longer contributing points to the overall AW score, many of these champions are no longer priorities in ranking up. If the removal of Defender Kill Points didn't completely remove the need for strong defense champion, then Defender Diversity certainly will. Now it's not about setting up a strong defense, it's about setting up a unique defense. I know Kabam had the best intentions here, they wanted to promote using different defenders but, to be quite honest, if certain champions weren't being used for defense before, it because they weren't good defenders. Now the focus is now on attack champions and high PI champions, leaving behind defense champions.

Sure, under the right circumstances, some defense champions can be good on offense. However, if you were deciding between a Dr.Voodoo or a Mordo, chances are you'd go for Dr. Voodoo rather than the defense king, Mordo. And now, you'd probably end up ranking up a She-Hulk for defense instead for the sake of Defender Diversity. And yes, some champions are very lucky to be able to survive this. Champions like Magik, Hyperion and Ice-Man are very good all around champions so they can survive this. It's the Mordos, Juggernauts, Cyclops, Ant-Men and Civil War Black Panthers, that will take a huge hit an will no longer be optimal in the game.

This is really something to consider. I can only hope the Kabam team will consider returning the old AW point system, but this is a big issue. Some champions are made for attack, some are made for defense and that was totally fine! That's how you avoid players only focusing on one type of champion. I can only speak for myself but I truly think that if AW does not change, those defender champions will no longer be worth ranking up. Furthermore, if AW does not change, I do think that rank down tickets may be something to consider as many defense strong champions will no longer be used anymore. What does everyone else think?

Comments

  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 2,721 ★★★★★
    edited September 2017
    Ouch, getting flagged for making a point.
    If I get a warning for flagging people that spam the same thing over and over then I hope whoever flagged this does too.

    To answer your question, unless you're in a tier where both teams go for maximum diversity so the deciding factor becomes defender rating, no I wouldn't bother ranking defenders
  • I like your point but I don't think the rdts are justified. We've transitioned to all champs having the same usefulness (or uselessness I suppose), and that is diversity.
    All the champs we had before are still worth having, but now others are as well. Thing is, with the new format, what champ it is doesn't quite seem to matter anyway. The nodes are significantly easier.
    And that's even with the top tier, premium defenders.
    The new aw system is on track to make war irrelevant, and the system will change again soon (probably, due to less revenue being generated).
    Rdts will have nothing to do with that.
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,570 ★★★★
    Answer is ... all champs are now defender champs, every single one of them
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    Aside from a handful of key nodes, we're going full diversity. I am using some champs I've never otherwise used, but none of us are ranking up champs either. We're just using our 4* 3/30 champs for the diversity, but still stacking the R4/R5 defense kings where they'll be effective.

    The issue is actually 3-fold with using specific champs on defense:
    1. The first is that people are using as many unique champs as they can, so we're not seeing the harder champs as much.
    2. The second (and bigger issue) is that the nodes themselves are not as difficult, so even the "defensive gods" aren't as difficult. Our last opponent went with the "stop exploration" approach where they stacked their usual defensive crew, and we just walked through it because the nodes aren't as hard.
    3. The third is that we can now move and adjust our lines a lot more easily so it's easier to double up a line if someone is struggling and still get 100% explore.

    War is easier. It's just another quest to utilize some of the champs to earn some easy shards now.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 759 ★★★
    edited September 2017
    Right now I don't have any plan to upgrade any 4S to R5 anymore, same for MANY players I know. We play with what we have and save resources for 5S and... future 6S.

    As said, the war path is now so easy that there is no reason to spend resources for a useless champ that will die anyway, anytime. And when diversity will be based on the entire alliance and not just you war group, things will be even worse.

    Last but not least, why upgrading champs when you can always change group where they already have what you've just upgraded? And what if you change alliance?

    No thanks, I'll save resources.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    Doing the math, switching out my R4 duped Magik with a R3 Carnage will result in 123 more points. I lose 2 points from dropping defender rating by 1k, but gain 125 points in diversity. Neither one will generate a kill at my ally's war level, so Carnage went in and opens up Magik for the attack team. Double bonus.
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 6,506 ★★★★★
    I am no where near to the issues with champ diversity. We are still having difficulty to take down opponent's champs (even though nodes are easier).

    I see the problem with game developers creating champs specifically for AW and AQ (defensive
    attributes
    stronger. I reckon the argument is it suites a Summoner with a defensive play style. Unfortunately, it does not quite work that way and it's another U-turn on overall game strategy and design.

    Back to point, in the first war, I actually managed to take down the boss (it was a Thor) :D myself.

    If nothing is changed, I will be facing the same disappointment as with the alliances who faced them now.

    Maybe, we all need to learn how to let AI parry and stun us, so our BPCW and Mordo still works well.

    So, how best to use She-Hulk again?
  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,361 ★★★
    I wish people who "flagged" posts would post and explain why they flagged the post so the poster has an idea of what he did wrong. I have had posts flagged and I have zero clue why. There are two possibilities for flagging, spam or abuse. Is it bc he mentioned rank down tickets or bc it's another thread about a view on new war? Therefore is the issue "spam?" I don't view what is posted as spam or abuse personally.
  • FthewiggFthewigg Posts: 104
    edited September 2017
    I take issue with the word "still". Imo, they were NEVER worth ranking up just for the sake of awd. Using those resources (cats, cores and mastery points), unless in overflowing abundance, was always foolish to me. All that just for the sake of shards and loyalty. To each their own, but these changes have really hurt those decisions.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    I will go a step further here. Why rank anyone, I mean why even care about getting more 5* or 4* champs?

    Hear me out. If you are in a competitive alliance, let's say rank 2000 and up, you run at min 5x5 more than likely. Your aq team is probably set in stone and you rinse and repeat the same path. Under prior war attack was much harder and good defense was much more important. So even if you had enough champs between rank 4 5* rank 3 5* and rank 5 4* to fill out defense and offense you still had reason to strive for better or more to improve and climb.

    Now... I don't need better attackers. I don't need better defenders. Why do I need new champs? I pull and dupe a 4* dormanu what difference does it make? I dupe my 5* magik I don't need her on defense and although she can be used on attack she still is not needed. I personally feel like this new war structure removed any motivation for me to acquire new champs. It made the game kinda feel pointless
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Mcord11758 wrote: »
    I will go a step further here. Why rank anyone, I mean why even care about getting more 5* or 4* champs?

    Hear me out. If you are in a competitive alliance, let's say rank 2000 and up, you run at min 5x5 more than likely. Your aq team is probably set in stone and you rinse and repeat the same path. Under prior war attack was much harder and good defense was much more important. So even if you had enough champs between rank 4 5* rank 3 5* and rank 5 4* to fill out defense and offense you still had reason to strive for better or more to improve and climb.

    Now... I don't need better attackers. I don't need better defenders. Why do I need new champs? I pull and dupe a 4* dormanu what difference does it make? I dupe my 5* magik I don't need her on defense and although she can be used on attack she still is not needed. I personally feel like this new war structure removed any motivation for me to acquire new champs. It made the game kinda feel pointless

    I see your point, but I guess the long term goal would be that you'll still want to rank up those high prestige champs to make sure your defense is giving as many points possible. You might have full r4s, but if someone has the same but it's phoenix, karnak, quake, howard, and mordo then you lose. Now we're supposed to get excited about prestige champs instead of utility.

  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    Mcord11758 wrote: »
    I will go a step further here. Why rank anyone, I mean why even care about getting more 5* or 4* champs?

    Hear me out. If you are in a competitive alliance, let's say rank 2000 and up, you run at min 5x5 more than likely. Your aq team is probably set in stone and you rinse and repeat the same path. Under prior war attack was much harder and good defense was much more important. So even if you had enough champs between rank 4 5* rank 3 5* and rank 5 4* to fill out defense and offense you still had reason to strive for better or more to improve and climb.

    Now... I don't need better attackers. I don't need better defenders. Why do I need new champs? I pull and dupe a 4* dormanu what difference does it make? I dupe my 5* magik I don't need her on defense and although she can be used on attack she still is not needed. I personally feel like this new war structure removed any motivation for me to acquire new champs. It made the game kinda feel pointless

    I see your point, but I guess the long term goal would be that you'll still want to rank up those high prestige champs to make sure your defense is giving as many points possible. You might have full r4s, but if someone has the same but it's phoenix, karnak, quake, howard, and mordo then you lose. Now we're supposed to get excited about prestige champs instead of utility.

    Yeah I get that but that's not where I am going. Also top prestige defenders can only be placed once. So who is allowed to rank Phoenix in the alliance and who is forced to rank black bolt?

    I can totally see a sittuation where people build their roster to fit their bg then get kicked or the alliance falls apart. Then what? You go to another alliance and they don't need the ranked up **** champs that fit into your old bg
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,882 ★★★★
    Everyone in my alliance is still figuring things out. No real desire to do war. Just sort of on hold until we figure out how bad this actually is. It seems worse than originally thought and we still have a ways to go. Of course we still do war but don't really care if we win or lose. Figure it will take a couple months before this all shakes out.
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    War is just becoming a playing card game where whoever has the most variety and point value for their card pack wins the game.
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