I read the post that the matchmaking is reverted back to the original but the AI change remain on Sunday 10/11. Well, then why the AI is so passive in Crystal Trove?
This change is not just about those of you that have been here for years, and know the formulas and everything else about the game inside and out. When a new player joins, they don't have that information, and don't understand why they're being hit with Death Matches. In that spirit, the increase in the PI of opponents makes sense... But it's obviously making it a less enjoyable experience for the veterans, which is not the desire.
Just to give some context to what these changes are, and why there has been an impact on the Infinite Streak:
Previously, when. you got higher in your streak, the Arena was trying to match you with a team that was at 4x your team's PI. Once you cross a certain threshold, there aren't any teams that high, so the system defaults to a fake team/something very low. To be very clear, this was an unintentional bug, and we've told players that in the past. We left it in-game for a long time because it's something that players are very used to.
What we changed is that the max PI of the opposite team should only be 2x. It definitely killed the formula players have known, and we understand that. We're looking at what else we can do to alleviate this situation.
Usually, the longer content has been left unchanged, and the more that content has (or would have if changed) an impact on players, it's better to just leave the content alone and not change it.
If you're worried about how this specifically impacts ignorant players ("new players", etc.), then you can fix that simply by adding clear communication on how the system works, that is easy for players to find and reference. Take the "bug" and turn it into a formal, and public, and communicated, and celebrated "feature".
Literally put in the Arena descriptions that tell players what they will face. Example: 1) easy difficulty fights (opponents at or below your submitted Team's Star and Rank) for the first 6 rounds until a player hits 3x win streak 2) very hard difficulty fights (opponents at the maximum Star and Rank limit for the Arena) from rounds 7 to rounds 11 3) then medium difficulty fights (opponents at Rank 3 of the maximum Star limit for the Arena) at rounds 12 and above (or however you want to formally shape, and then describe to players, the Arena's mechanics)
You can also add keywords like "Easy", "Medium", "Hard" for each of these tier groups. That you then also add to each matchup opponent team graphical box, of that type, for ease of reference.
This mode indicates a player will need high skill or a top roster team (that they either wait to refresh or pay to refresh) to handle rounds 7 to 11. But after that, they can reliably use Teams resource-upped to Rank 3 of the upper Star limit for that Arena. This a process whereby players can access different parts of the Arena as their roster and skills develop to tackle it, and they also understand this from the outset.
I played a shooter where players could strafe and it was more effective at dodging enemy fire than it looked from the enemy's point-of-view. So new players were frustrated by a game that seemed to cheat them, when their bullets missed what looked like correctly aimed shots. This game could have helped this problem by adding Matrix style dodge animations on players that strafed. Maybe even a HUD text that read "Super Dodging Detected". That way new players would understand that this move from their opponent created superior dodging, and matched what they saw with what the results in the game were.
You can choose to make a game that has more "mystery" to it (aka don't tell players stuff). But you will face more issues related to erratic player user experience and erratic community reaction.
It may not mean a total revert, but we're still open to that after we see more data and information from more players. There are other solutions, and we're going to look into it. Please keep your responses and opinions constructive in this thread.
When a designer is designing mechanics for a specific purpose, their best best bet is to start by identifying what they want as the outcome: the goals, general and specific. Who (specific demographics, and subdemographics, and hybrid demographics) uses it, how they use it, how much time they put into it, how they perform, how it influences them to shape their roster, how it influences them to spend, etc. If you have 2+ goals that contradict each other, set a tiering of which goals gets priority, to what extent or at what threshold, etc.
After they do that, they can map out a system that flows players into that behavior and outcome. Piecemeal adjusting things through iteration to tune that system. Just remember the game is a composite of microenvironments and ecosystems, and changes to one of those often will affect the others.
A designer doesn't have to feel locked into their goals, they can change them. And then they can tune the system to match the new goals. This can coincide with communication with players to ensure (a) designers can better "manage expectations" of players on the change, (b) designers can further shape how players perceive the change, and (c) designers can keep a dialogue with players to help tune through that channel as well.
Yes, the bulk of the Points come from the R2-R4 5*s, R1 6*s, and the R4-R5 4*s in our Rosters. Not many people have that many Max 5*s and R2-R3 6*s to run with to avoid double the PI of what you're working with. You can use R1 5*s if you pair them up with a couple higher PI Champs. That's the bulk of Grinding, unless you're refreshing your Top Teams steadily for a heavy Grind. That's how people get to the 70-90 Mil. If you're asking that we make it twice as hard for regular Grind so people can use their lower-end Champs for a few more Points in between Recharges, I'm going to say that's folly, and not much sense. That's making the Grind miserable for regular Grinders so people can eke out a few more Matches that yield minimal Points overall. It's not a hard thing to follow. Keep your Total PI above a certain number, don't use 4*s below R4, and maintain the Streak. I'm not ignorant to the issue. I'm pointing out those few R1 4*s aren't going to do much in between millions.
You are wrong. There was never anything hard with the new system. You were provided a new way to effectively use all your collection while the AI is in your favor to win the fights. The only hard thing about this system is the META champions and they are META for different reason so it’s no wonder why we see them more and suddenly call them DeAtHSqUaD.
Even players that don’t have those r5 or anything close to it could still effectively use their collection and still call those lower ranked AI as Deathsquad, but still benefitted from it as they firing their special powers non-stop.
What game are you playing? Not being able to use your R1 6*s and R4 5*s without running into twice the resistance is a huge side effect. I haven't even gotten into the "Meta champ" subject. Half the reason people want to use the lower ones is because many just Rank the same Champs and have sworn off Ranking anything else, which is why we're here with people wanting to Grind it out with their lower Champs. Feel free to say, "OK Boomer", but it's been clear as long as I've been playing that the more Champs you have and the higher you Rank them, the better you Grind. That was clear in the 3* Arena, the 4*, the Basic, the Cat Arenas, and it's clear now. That includes Ranking Champs that aren't God Tier, at the very least beyond R1. I'm not sure people get how exhausting it is to Grind for hours on end, trying to get a Champ, and how much harder it makes it with Opponents twice your strength. While I respect the goal of this and I get what they wanted to do, the way of going about it shifted the Deathmatches from one area to the area that most people get their Points without using Units to refresh constantly.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. More points was being racked in starting from r5 and downward. While the system see you are using lower ranked champion they change it to face lower ranked champions while your higher one refresh.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit@Kabam Vydious@Kabam Porthos@Kabam Lyra shame on you for giving in so easily by being bombared with feedback. the Game team lost anyway as it's unfair in both perspective. to make it fair you could have given it a week wait and make a community vote pool and see what they say. That's how you should have proceeded!
Wow someone is salty.
BTW, a vote poll would’ve been pointless. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would see that 99.9% of the player base hated this change.
No, we don’t even know that. There are more players out there in the forum that aren’t sharing it’s thought.
If you have visited this forum regularly, you may aware that two days ago I have made a poll asking player's opinion about whether they consider the new arena change an improvement. 43 players respond (before the post was deleted and I got warning for non-constructive discussion), in which 70% voted "no, not an improvement at all", 4 players voted "yes, its an improvement", remaining are "nothing good or bad" and "I never play arena before or after the change". I'm thinking whether to write this as I don't want to get 2nd warning. Anyway, here's the poll result before delete.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit@Kabam Vydious@Kabam Porthos@Kabam Lyra shame on you for giving in so easily by being bombared with feedback. the Game team lost anyway as it's unfair in both perspective. to make it fair you could have given it a week wait and make a community vote pool and see what they say. That's how you should have proceeded!
Wow someone is salty.
BTW, a vote poll would’ve been pointless. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would see that 99.9% of the player base hated this change.
No, we don’t even know that. There are more players out there in the forum that aren’t sharing it’s thought.
If you have visited this forum regularly, you may aware that two days ago I have made a poll asking player's opinion about whether they consider the new arena change an improvement. 43 players respond (before the post was deleted and I got warning for non-constructive discussion), in which 70% voted "no, not an improvement at all", 4 players voted "yes, its an improvement", remaining are "nothing good or bad" and "I never play arena before or after the change". I'm thinking whether to write this as I don't want to get 2nd warning. Anyway, here's the poll result before delete.
Different story if it was from game team’s vote pool.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit@Kabam Vydious@Kabam Porthos@Kabam Lyra shame on you for giving in so easily by being bombared with feedback. the Game team lost anyway as it's unfair in both perspective. to make it fair you could have given it a week wait and make a community vote pool and see what they say. That's how you should have proceeded!
Wow someone is salty.
BTW, a vote poll would’ve been pointless. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would see that 99.9% of the player base hated this change.
No, we don’t even know that. There are more players out there in the forum that aren’t sharing it’s thought.
If you have visited this forum regularly, you may aware that two days ago I have made a poll asking player's opinion about whether they consider the new arena change an improvement. 43 players respond (before the post was deleted and I got warning for non-constructive discussion), in which 70% voted "no, not an improvement at all", 4 players voted "yes, its an improvement", remaining are "nothing good or bad" and "I never play arena before or after the change". I'm thinking whether to write this as I don't want to get 2nd warning. Anyway, here's the poll result before delete.
Different story if it was from game team’s vote pool.
Maybe you're right, but I think the wordings won't change even it is asked by the game team. Just plain english.
Constructive Feedback: Arena has always been mundane and boring, no way around that. You’ve doubled the amount of time it takes to beat each fight now. Complete turn off for me, on something that already lacks my interest. Killing every aspect of this game, there’s not much left that peaks my interest anymore.
It’s taking me almost double the amount of time to do the same amount of fights. Sorry Kabam you have not fixed this - when my time is at a premium doubling the amount of time isn’t a good way to keep your player base - basically making this game unplayable in the time I’ve got available
Yes, the bulk of the Points come from the R2-R4 5*s, R1 6*s, and the R4-R5 4*s in our Rosters. Not many people have that many Max 5*s and R2-R3 6*s to run with to avoid double the PI of what you're working with. You can use R1 5*s if you pair them up with a couple higher PI Champs. That's the bulk of Grinding, unless you're refreshing your Top Teams steadily for a heavy Grind. That's how people get to the 70-90 Mil. If you're asking that we make it twice as hard for regular Grind so people can use their lower-end Champs for a few more Points in between Recharges, I'm going to say that's folly, and not much sense. That's making the Grind miserable for regular Grinders so people can eke out a few more Matches that yield minimal Points overall. It's not a hard thing to follow. Keep your Total PI above a certain number, don't use 4*s below R4, and maintain the Streak. I'm not ignorant to the issue. I'm pointing out those few R1 4*s aren't going to do much in between millions.
You are wrong. There was never anything hard with the new system. You were provided a new way to effectively use all your collection while the AI is in your favor to win the fights. The only hard thing about this system is the META champions and they are META for different reason so it’s no wonder why we see them more and suddenly call them DeAtHSqUaD.
Even players that don’t have those r5 or anything close to it could still effectively use their collection and still call those lower ranked AI as Deathsquad, but still benefitted from it as they firing their special powers non-stop.
What game are you playing? Not being able to use your R1 6*s and R4 5*s without running into twice the resistance is a huge side effect. I haven't even gotten into the "Meta champ" subject. Half the reason people want to use the lower ones is because many just Rank the same Champs and have sworn off Ranking anything else, which is why we're here with people wanting to Grind it out with their lower Champs. Feel free to say, "OK Boomer", but it's been clear as long as I've been playing that the more Champs you have and the higher you Rank them, the better you Grind. That was clear in the 3* Arena, the 4*, the Basic, the Cat Arenas, and it's clear now. That includes Ranking Champs that aren't God Tier, at the very least beyond R1. I'm not sure people get how exhausting it is to Grind for hours on end, trying to get a Champ, and how much harder it makes it with Opponents twice your strength. While I respect the goal of this and I get what they wanted to do, the way of going about it shifted the Deathmatches from one area to the area that most people get their Points without using Units to refresh constantly.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. More points was being racked in starting from r5 and downward. While the system see you are using lower ranked champion they change it to face lower ranked champions while your higher one refresh.
If people are doing Milestones, they can do it just fine and avoid Deathmatches with the old system. If people are competing to Rank, I can assure you. No one is relying on their lower Champs. The time you spend going through minimal Points won't yield anything close to what people are Ranking with. There's also another solution. People do the best they can, keep Ranking little by little, and grow to do better.
To be totally frank, I get the goal. People want to be able to use any Champ without problems. That's not what I'm disputing. What I think is ludicrous is arguing it's better to have double PI Matches for the range of R4 5*s and R1 6*s, just so people can play with unranked Champs. God forbid people start Ranking them.
I waited to see how a new round is going to work but still the same ****. It's not about difficulty increasing, I just seem to lose absurdly high number of fights at streak 8 to 10 due to things that logically shouldn't happen - and by that I mean opponents acting like they have 100% chance for an effect or hitting a special outside of their range. If I get through that then it goes back to normal (at least relatively, given the chaos with recent changes) but that bracket feels like it has cheats enabled and if two of these fights happen in a single series, then have fun with starting over and hoping you don't get roflstomped by Hulk's s2 from the other side of the map again.
mann.. i'm waiting for a rank 5/65 CAIW throw his sp2 very long. he's just standing there hold block. when i open my block he suddenly sp2 damnnnnn you kabam what are you doing ??
New system can be done with EQUAL Strength if whole team is either VERY LOW (full team of base level 4* 1/1, or full teams of base 5* 1/1) or VERY HIGH (all 5* r4 or 6* r1, or above).
VERY LOW, I tested in streak all the way from 6-15 and most times got similar 4* r1/1 (or 5* 1/1) teams (or maybe some at r1/xx, still easy). And even further into 20+ tried again and still easy opponent within 1 rank higher than my low team.
VERY HIGH (5* r4 teams got same rank opponents as mine).
UNBALANCED/SANDBAG (for any mid range, ie 4* 3/30, 4/40, 5/50, and 5* r2 and r3)... Able to use 2 of same strength (anywhere from 3/30 to 5/50, or 5* equiv), with 3rd spot being a “Throwaway Loss” 4*r1/1 champ. Opponents always only 1 rank higher than my 2 that I will WIN with.
**thus the benefit of keeping a bunch of 4* and 5* champs totally unranked/unleveled at r1/1 to use when doing UNBALANCED (whether with old system, or with new system).
VERY LOW...
UNBALANCED...
VERY HIGH...
Good points, but only works if you keep r1 l1 champs, which I don’t, can’t go back and change that.
What if I don’t want to unbalance sandbag my matches. What if I don’t want to lose 1 out of every 3 fights when using my r2/3 5* or r3/4/5 4*. The changes they made force you to do that, I didn’t have to before.
I have always been able to maintain a streak with old system winning all of the fights and using all of my champions from r4 4* all the way to r2 6* in featured 5* arena.
New arena was better than the old arena. Less point means we need to grind more. This is another example of kabam succumbing to the cries or the community because they think it’s too hard... smfh
Love that the arena is back. Fights are quicker and easier. Less stressful, I can fight more careless.
I look at my screenshots from the new arena vs today. After streak 30, I had 4.27m and today I have 4.3m. I guess I lost a few fights in the new arena because of all the r3 6* I had to fight with meme 6*.
Sorry your ability to run low ranks in the arena didn’t work out. It’s understandable to mourn the loss of it but it’s just plain dumb to be lying about the side effects, reasons for complaints, scope of the problem and impact it had on other player’s enjoyment of the arenas because you don’t like it.
A 2x death match is easily beatable. A 4x deathmatch is a lot harder.
People are saying they had their algorithm of I can use these champs and those champs - what if I dont want to sandbag, or ive already ranked champs.
4* arena. Sandbag using 3*s 5* & 6* arena. Sangbag using 4*s.
It is not hard.. the issue isn't the change. The issue is people cry about deathmatches, cry area is too long and too hard to do. People which are unwilling to try a positive change or try change their way of playing to see something for what it really is..
Kabam mad a positive change that helped EVERYONE. Not just those with a big roster. Not just those who want to grind everything. Everyone benefitted from it.
In what? 6/12 months when R4 6*s are introduced, ill post up here and see who's crying about it then.
Another thing.. previous arena. 31 streak. I could use my 4* R1s, no sandbagging no nothing. X2 match.. easy to beat.. this one.. I purposefully lost my streak at the start. I reached 33 streak. Used my R1 5*s.. Guess what.. 3 R3 6*s.. but people were crying about ohh I have a R5* 5* against an R2/R3* 6*..
Yes.. some of the matches are hard. But you could use every single champion you wanted in that arena. In one run of the last arena I earned 15m, this one I had to stop at 10m.. because I faced up against R3 6*s with R2 5*s - and I won 3 sets like that before having to stop.
As everyone on the forums loves to say. Get Good. I face 4X death matches - and I have for years without moaning.. we're given 2X death matches and everyone cries. Get Good.. simple as. It doesn't take much concentration. If you cant give it enough concentration. Sandbag. It was a pro-player move which actually helped F2P grinders and now its ruined..
Go ahead.. hit the dislike button 👍 you know its true. You just don't want to give 10% more effort and as a result, those who actually want to grind, cant.
Hi mate it more abudt the less time arena is already boring enuget so this AI chamge is what need
Sorry your ability to run low ranks in the arena didn’t work out. It’s understandable to mourn the loss of it but it’s just plain dumb to be lying about the side effects, reasons for complaints, scope of the problem and impact it had on other player’s enjoyment of the arenas because you don’t like it.
I could say the same about yours. Because you cant be asked doing 10 more hits with your best champions, you've removed the ability for grinders to use their entire rosters.. but hey. You dont care as long as you can reach the milestones and stop.
Personally I was having trouble “wanting” to play arenas already after 6 years in the game. To time consuming for the rewards when I can just wait to spin the champion later on. I already have a good roster and I don’t feel the desire to spend three days attached to a game for a single champ. This update has completely and totall ruined arenas for me on any level. Not even worth the time for battle chips now. This may be my last post as I may soon stop playing this game all the together. They are ruining everything that was fun about it.
Comments
If you're worried about how this specifically impacts ignorant players ("new players", etc.), then you can fix that simply by adding clear communication on how the system works, that is easy for players to find and reference. Take the "bug" and turn it into a formal, and public, and communicated, and celebrated "feature".
Literally put in the Arena descriptions that tell players what they will face. Example:
1) easy difficulty fights (opponents at or below your submitted Team's Star and Rank) for the first 6 rounds until a player hits 3x win streak
2) very hard difficulty fights (opponents at the maximum Star and Rank limit for the Arena) from rounds 7 to rounds 11
3) then medium difficulty fights (opponents at Rank 3 of the maximum Star limit for the Arena) at rounds 12 and above
(or however you want to formally shape, and then describe to players, the Arena's mechanics)
You can also add keywords like "Easy", "Medium", "Hard" for each of these tier groups. That you then also add to each matchup opponent team graphical box, of that type, for ease of reference.
This mode indicates a player will need high skill or a top roster team (that they either wait to refresh or pay to refresh) to handle rounds 7 to 11. But after that, they can reliably use Teams resource-upped to Rank 3 of the upper Star limit for that Arena. This a process whereby players can access different parts of the Arena as their roster and skills develop to tackle it, and they also understand this from the outset.
I played a shooter where players could strafe and it was more effective at dodging enemy fire than it looked from the enemy's point-of-view. So new players were frustrated by a game that seemed to cheat them, when their bullets missed what looked like correctly aimed shots. This game could have helped this problem by adding Matrix style dodge animations on players that strafed. Maybe even a HUD text that read "Super Dodging Detected". That way new players would understand that this move from their opponent created superior dodging, and matched what they saw with what the results in the game were.
You can choose to make a game that has more "mystery" to it (aka don't tell players stuff). But you will face more issues related to erratic player user experience and erratic community reaction. When a designer is designing mechanics for a specific purpose, their best best bet is to start by identifying what they want as the outcome: the goals, general and specific. Who (specific demographics, and subdemographics, and hybrid demographics) uses it, how they use it, how much time they put into it, how they perform, how it influences them to shape their roster, how it influences them to spend, etc. If you have 2+ goals that contradict each other, set a tiering of which goals gets priority, to what extent or at what threshold, etc.
After they do that, they can map out a system that flows players into that behavior and outcome. Piecemeal adjusting things through iteration to tune that system. Just remember the game is a composite of microenvironments and ecosystems, and changes to one of those often will affect the others.
A designer doesn't have to feel locked into their goals, they can change them. And then they can tune the system to match the new goals. This can coincide with communication with players to ensure (a) designers can better "manage expectations" of players on the change, (b) designers can further shape how players perceive the change, and (c) designers can keep a dialogue with players to help tune through that channel as well.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. More points was being racked in starting from r5 and downward. While the system see you are using lower ranked champion they change it to face lower ranked champions while your higher one refresh.
Arena has always been mundane and boring, no way around that. You’ve doubled the amount of time it takes to beat each fight now. Complete turn off for me, on something that already lacks my interest. Killing every aspect of this game, there’s not much left that peaks my interest anymore.
Sorry Kabam you have not fixed this - when my time is at a premium doubling the amount of time isn’t a good way to keep your player base - basically making this game unplayable in the time I’ve got available
What if I don’t want to unbalance sandbag my matches. What if I don’t want to lose 1 out of every 3 fights when using my r2/3 5* or r3/4/5 4*. The changes they made force you to do that, I didn’t have to before.
I have always been able to maintain a streak with old system winning all of the fights and using all of my champions from r4 4* all the way to r2 6* in featured 5* arena.
Matchmaking correction looking good so far. Hope it sticks. This is well appreciated, Kabam team. Cheers 🍻
I look at my screenshots from the new arena vs today. After streak 30, I had 4.27m and today I have 4.3m. I guess I lost a few fights in the new arena because of all the r3 6* I had to fight with meme 6*.