Scenarios to use NC Mordo BP-CW Electro as top choice offensive champions?

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Comments

  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Member Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    Kabam: We did not create champs specifically for defensive purposes
    Kabam: <uses same defensive champs for event bosses as players in AW>

    To the OP: The champs typically seen as defenders can all be used quite effectively on offense, but only a few of them are really go-to champs for specific attacking scenarios (like using Guilly against Wolvie). Each of them have better options available.

    That being said, I actually enjoy playing with several of the champs I had ranked up for defense:
    • Hype, Magik, and Ice are obvious top of the "defenders" who are very capable of attack in any other capacity. Pure dual threats. Many ranked them for offense, they just benefited from having them on defense too.
    • Nightcrawler does insane damage, and once duped is actually better as an attacker.
    • Dormammu is an awesome power controller and is bleed/poison immune. I use him rather frequently when I'm running the power-gain lines of Map 5
    • Electro is average, but is still fun to play. Sometimes I'll match him up with Venom, Venompool, Spidey, and Gwenpool for quests to mix things up.
    • Howard is a blast to play. No real specific use on offense, but is a good all-around champ to play with.
    • Ultron is similar to Dorm, except he causes bleed instead of power controls. Another great AQ fighter

    Others that I've seen on defense:
    • Spiderman (& variants) - I hate fighting with them. Miles isn't bad because you can run out of evades and just fight, but IMO they are all almost purely defenders. Only exeption would be Stark spidey.
    • I have no experience with Yellow Jacket. I hear some people really like him.
    • Agent Venom's ability to shake off debuffs can be quite helpful in the debuff-heavy story content
    • War Machine's real strength comes from getting hit (defensive-based) but does come in handy in the longer fights of story mode
    • Mordo is actually quite fun to play with. He's a bit more nuanced, and is much better now that Kabam fixed his MLLLM/block issues.
    • Antman, Hulkbuster, Rhino, BPCW, Luke Cage, Unstop Colossus, Groot, Juggs, and Abom are arena fodder. If AW defense didn't exist, they'd join the ranks of Fixit, Spidergwen, and Iron Patiot on the junk pile.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    UC439 wrote: »
    UC439 wrote: »
    No just NOT for arena. 3/30 s are enough for that.

    Since these guys that I focussed to build up a strong defense have become useless there now & kabam are adamant about NOT issuing RDTs, I want scenarios where these guys can be my go to option as an offensive champion.

    Arena suggestions aren't needed. Cz bw ds sw thor were still useful in arenas but people were issued rank down tickets back then, to readjust them. But currently no love going for defense beasts.

    Thor, Black Widow, Dr Strange, and Scarlett Witch wete issued RDT not because they were still viable in arena. It was because their champions stats were directly nerfed.
    Whereas no changes were made to Mordo, Black Panther-Civil War, and Electro.

    It's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

    As for viability of Mordo, Black Panther-Civil War, and Electro outside of AW defense and Arena, you can use them in Act 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Also, event quests.

    Again, as long as their stats are not changed in any way, their viability in majority of game content does not change.

    Just like how shops are not gonna refund you money for a shirt that you bought just because yoir favourite restaurant banned that shirt. You can still wear that shirt under other circumstances. The fact that you buy that shirt just to wear it to said restaurant and nowhere else is besides the point.

    I'm not searching for an opinion where I "can" or "may" use them. I want a solid scenario where these champions will be a go to option over other offensive beasts. Bcz I have my attack, questing, AQ team pretty much set.

    & YES they're well aware of tailor made defensive champions n how excessively people used them over other champions in defense. That is exactly why they're punishing people for placing duplicates. Be it directly to the character, or to the circumstances of the usage of the character, a NERF is a NERF & should be treated in a similar manner.

    The "store n the resturant" are same here, they're interlinked & very much aware how changing rules in one place will affect the other.

    Again, fundamentals. There is no nerf, at all. If they give u RDT, then they should charge you extra because now your maxed out Iron Patriot is a viable defender.

    So when a champ is affected by circumstances and becomes a useless defender you ask for RDT, but when a useless champ suddenly becomes a useful defender you get to enjoy the benefits with no strings attached?

    the thing is nobody has any **** champions ranked up for any purpose. But now we have to rank them up to make viable defender, & to switch b/w craps n good defenders we need RDTs.
    I'm not enjoying to be unable to place my top defenders neither placing low ranked **** patriots.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    UC439 wrote: »
    Amonthir wrote: »
    Electro hits hard, just don't get hit...? About it. BPCW is weak offensively, since he is designed to be beat up by players. Mordo, now, has his actual offense uses. L2 can put the hurt on champs with a lot of buffs or heals, and he can hit hard after stacking Furies with Heavy/L3. Don't block though, as that energy shield is made of energy-resistant paper.
    Edit: Forgot NC, lol. A strong attacker after you switch to Swashbuckling, but you will generally have to eat some degree of block damage to do so. In Neyaphem, he is unreliable for both parries and intercepts.
    @eXtripa69 And not for AWD per se, but several champs are designed with the idea that they will be punching bags for players, and have abilities to punish that or make it harder to do so, most of which do very little on the Offensive side. Like how they refuse to let Abom poison on attacks, only when hit or made to bleed.

    agreed. But that still doesn't make them go to option for any offensive scenario.
    SLs sp2 hits hard if u mess up, but will that make him a good defender? No.
    Same with offensive abilities of champions that were basically designed for defense.

    No champion is designed for defense. To be specific, no champion is designed to be placed on a defensive map by players. Some champions have stronger defensive abilities than others, but that's actually not the criteria players use to choose the "best defenders." The best defenders are actually the champs that the computer AI plays the best not the champions with the best defense.

    For example, Dr. Strange isn't placed on defense because he's a "designed for defense" champ. It is (usually) specifically for unblockable special two. The AI isn't all that great at controlling combat, so attacks that don't require a lot of skill to use become better on defense than attacks or attack powers that require skill or special tactics to use. Electro is tagged as #Offensive but his electrostatic strike back damage make him a decent defender because once again, it is a source of damage the computer doesn't need skill to use against another player.

    Limbo and Coldsnap are very useful on defense, but they are not specifically defensive abilities: they are equally useful on offense and both Magik and Iceman are considered good attackers. Meanwhile Ultron's heals are clearly a defensive ability but that defensive ability makes him a very valuable attacker. Once they descaled healing in AW he became less valuable as a defender. Basically, Ultron's heals are a defensive ability that players can get a lot of mileage for when they control him, but the AI doesn't get as much mileage on now when the AI controls him. So that's a defensive ability that works better when it is defending an attacker.

    How good a defender is, is really a function of how good the AI is compared to the skill of the player. When the skill of the player is relatively low, champions like Ant-Man and Luke Cage can be pretty good defenders because of their respective abilities. They become lesser defenders not because the players can skill their way past those abilities but rather because players become skilled enough to nullify their attacks which are easy to evade. Then the Yellowjackets and Magnetos become good defenders. At the highest skill levels anything that can be avoided generally is avoided, and the very best defenders become the defenders that have tricks that are either impossible to avoid or difficult to consistently avoid.

    Champions look like they were "designed for defense" only if you view everything as having been designed for your specific skill level, and no other player in the game.

    then what was the need for diversity in the first place? If all champions were equally viable for "defense" diversity would've been implicit, there was no need to impose it.
    When they design a champion, they're fully aware where those gonna excel to their full potential.
    The excessive use of top quality defenders have made them bring this defender diversity.
    & following kabam Mike's comment, they know that there's a lot wrong with this new AW system which they're trying to rectify.
  • Nexus_UY_ScutiNexus_UY_Scuti Member Posts: 480 ★★
    UC439 wrote: »
    UC439 wrote: »
    UC439 wrote: »
    No just NOT for arena. 3/30 s are enough for that.

    Since these guys that I focussed to build up a strong defense have become useless there now & kabam are adamant about NOT issuing RDTs, I want scenarios where these guys can be my go to option as an offensive champion.

    Arena suggestions aren't needed. Cz bw ds sw thor were still useful in arenas but people were issued rank down tickets back then, to readjust them. But currently no love going for defense beasts.

    Thor, Black Widow, Dr Strange, and Scarlett Witch wete issued RDT not because they were still viable in arena. It was because their champions stats were directly nerfed.
    Whereas no changes were made to Mordo, Black Panther-Civil War, and Electro.

    It's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

    As for viability of Mordo, Black Panther-Civil War, and Electro outside of AW defense and Arena, you can use them in Act 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Also, event quests.

    Again, as long as their stats are not changed in any way, their viability in majority of game content does not change.

    Just like how shops are not gonna refund you money for a shirt that you bought just because yoir favourite restaurant banned that shirt. You can still wear that shirt under other circumstances. The fact that you buy that shirt just to wear it to said restaurant and nowhere else is besides the point.

    I'm not searching for an opinion where I "can" or "may" use them. I want a solid scenario where these champions will be a go to option over other offensive beasts. Bcz I have my attack, questing, AQ team pretty much set.

    & YES they're well aware of tailor made defensive champions n how excessively people used them over other champions in defense. That is exactly why they're punishing people for placing duplicates. Be it directly to the character, or to the circumstances of the usage of the character, a NERF is a NERF & should be treated in a similar manner.

    The "store n the resturant" are same here, they're interlinked & very much aware how changing rules in one place will affect the other.

    Again, fundamentals. There is no nerf, at all. If they give u RDT, then they should charge you extra because now your maxed out Iron Patriot is a viable defender.

    So when a champ is affected by circumstances and becomes a useless defender you ask for RDT, but when a useless champ suddenly becomes a useful defender you get to enjoy the benefits with no strings attached?

    the thing is nobody has any **** champions ranked up for any purpose. But now we have to rank them up to make viable defender, & to switch b/w craps n good defenders we need RDTs.
    I'm not enjoying to be unable to place my top defenders neither placing low ranked **** patriots.
    UC439 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    UC439 wrote: »
    Amonthir wrote: »
    Electro hits hard, just don't get hit...? About it. BPCW is weak offensively, since he is designed to be beat up by players. Mordo, now, has his actual offense uses. L2 can put the hurt on champs with a lot of buffs or heals, and he can hit hard after stacking Furies with Heavy/L3. Don't block though, as that energy shield is made of energy-resistant paper.
    Edit: Forgot NC, lol. A strong attacker after you switch to Swashbuckling, but you will generally have to eat some degree of block damage to do so. In Neyaphem, he is unreliable for both parries and intercepts.
    @eXtripa69 And not for AWD per se, but several champs are designed with the idea that they will be punching bags for players, and have abilities to punish that or make it harder to do so, most of which do very little on the Offensive side. Like how they refuse to let Abom poison on attacks, only when hit or made to bleed.

    agreed. But that still doesn't make them go to option for any offensive scenario.
    SLs sp2 hits hard if u mess up, but will that make him a good defender? No.
    Same with offensive abilities of champions that were basically designed for defense.

    No champion is designed for defense. To be specific, no champion is designed to be placed on a defensive map by players. Some champions have stronger defensive abilities than others, but that's actually not the criteria players use to choose the "best defenders." The best defenders are actually the champs that the computer AI plays the best not the champions with the best defense.

    For example, Dr. Strange isn't placed on defense because he's a "designed for defense" champ. It is (usually) specifically for unblockable special two. The AI isn't all that great at controlling combat, so attacks that don't require a lot of skill to use become better on defense than attacks or attack powers that require skill or special tactics to use. Electro is tagged as #Offensive but his electrostatic strike back damage make him a decent defender because once again, it is a source of damage the computer doesn't need skill to use against another player.

    Limbo and Coldsnap are very useful on defense, but they are not specifically defensive abilities: they are equally useful on offense and both Magik and Iceman are considered good attackers. Meanwhile Ultron's heals are clearly a defensive ability but that defensive ability makes him a very valuable attacker. Once they descaled healing in AW he became less valuable as a defender. Basically, Ultron's heals are a defensive ability that players can get a lot of mileage for when they control him, but the AI doesn't get as much mileage on now when the AI controls him. So that's a defensive ability that works better when it is defending an attacker.

    How good a defender is, is really a function of how good the AI is compared to the skill of the player. When the skill of the player is relatively low, champions like Ant-Man and Luke Cage can be pretty good defenders because of their respective abilities. They become lesser defenders not because the players can skill their way past those abilities but rather because players become skilled enough to nullify their attacks which are easy to evade. Then the Yellowjackets and Magnetos become good defenders. At the highest skill levels anything that can be avoided generally is avoided, and the very best defenders become the defenders that have tricks that are either impossible to avoid or difficult to consistently avoid.

    Champions look like they were "designed for defense" only if you view everything as having been designed for your specific skill level, and no other player in the game.

    then what was the need for diversity in the first place? If all champions were equally viable for "defense" diversity would've been implicit, there was no need to impose it.
    When they design a champion, they're fully aware where those gonna excel to their full potential.
    The excessive use of top quality defenders have made them bring this defender diversity.
    & following kabam Mike's comment, they know that there's a lot wrong with this new AW system which they're trying to rectify.

    Even if what you are saying is true (i doubt it since you are not part of the game development team), why would that warrant rank down tickets?

    Medusa was added to the champion pool. Now i have to rank her up because she is better than Gamora. Do i get rank down tickets for my Gamora too?

    Ridiculous.
  • winterthurwinterthur Member Posts: 8,222 ★★★★★
    This post is not RDT request.

    Although RDTs was communicated as given due to champs being nerfed, it is really a literal expression.

    If today She-Hulk is being nerfed, will there be mass hysteria with RDT demands?

    The point was an inducement to rank or level champs for a specific purpose. There are adequate statistics to know which champs are ranked and leveled up and which are left (if not sold) behind, merely occupying another slot.

    What was the outcry with v12? Was it really champ nerf or the inducement with offers to rank up certain champs just before the champs was nerfed.

    The same goes here. Champs are being ranked up for a specific purpose. An game developer was aware and actively created content which encourages the use of those few champs.
    That purpose is now negated and removed.

    It is about selling a product with a warranty for x months and then saying the parts to repair the product under warranty is obsolete and no longer manufactured and used up.

    It is not about introducing a better product and I may still buy the existing product because I don't need a better one.
  • Nexus_UY_ScutiNexus_UY_Scuti Member Posts: 480 ★★
    winterthur wrote: »
    This post is not RDT request.

    Although RDTs was communicated as given due to champs being nerfed, it is really a literal expression.

    If today She-Hulk is being nerfed, will there be mass hysteria with RDT demands?

    The point was an inducement to rank or level champs for a specific purpose. There are adequate statistics to know which champs are ranked and leveled up and which are left (if not sold) behind, merely occupying another slot.

    What was the outcry with v12? Was it really champ nerf or the inducement with offers to rank up certain champs just before the champs was nerfed.

    The same goes here. Champs are being ranked up for a specific purpose. An game developer was aware and actively created content which encourages the use of those few champs.
    That purpose is now negated and removed.

    It is about selling a product with a warranty for x months and then saying the parts to repair the product under warranty is obsolete and no longer manufactured and used up.

    It is not about introducing a better product and I may still buy the existing product because I don't need a better one.

    Read the OP, count the number of times RDT was mentioned, then tell me again with a straight face that this is not a No-RDT-butthurt post.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    @Nexus_UY_Scuti

    U'll rank up medusa bcz u think medusa is better than gamora, & it'll be ur personal strategy to use it over her. No one is forcing it.

    In case of defenders, all of them were ranked up bcz they were and still are far better than other champions in defense. I had no plan, no strategy to rank them down. It is due to the change in the system that I cannot use them for what they were brought up for bcz duplicates are getting punished now.

    U cannot ask for RDTs when the rank down choices are of ur own, but when it is forcefully implemented, then the request is justisfied.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    winterthur wrote: »
    This post is not RDT request.

    Although RDTs was communicated as given due to champs being nerfed, it is really a literal expression.

    If today She-Hulk is being nerfed, will there be mass hysteria with RDT demands?

    The point was an inducement to rank or level champs for a specific purpose. There are adequate statistics to know which champs are ranked and leveled up and which are left (if not sold) behind, merely occupying another slot.

    What was the outcry with v12? Was it really champ nerf or the inducement with offers to rank up certain champs just before the champs was nerfed.

    The same goes here. Champs are being ranked up for a specific purpose. An game developer was aware and actively created content which encourages the use of those few champs.
    That purpose is now negated and removed.

    It is about selling a product with a warranty for x months and then saying the parts to repair the product under warranty is obsolete and no longer manufactured and used up.

    It is not about introducing a better product and I may still buy the existing product because I don't need a better one.

    Read the OP, count the number of times RDT was mentioned, then tell me again with a straight face that this is not a No-RDT-butthurt post.

    yes ur partly correct. This post is

    Either RDT
    Or Make changes so that there's no need of RDTs like few weeks back.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    It is no fun to see opponents facerolling my low ranked **** champions in defense, while my top defenders are rotting in the selves.
  • DemonicStalkerDemonicStalker Member Posts: 338 ★★
    Hey Guys,

    As we have mentioned many times now, we are still working on the Alliance Wars mode. So those Champions that you think right now might be less useful than they were before, might just become your favourites again.

    This will be an iterative process, and will not be quick or easy, and we don't currently know what those changes will look like, but will definitely keep you guys updated as we have information to share!

    Hi

    Look, if your developers were going to change the format of Alliance Wars to include champions diversity points, why are you not first, improving the 40++ weak champions that cannot even be use to clear story act chap 4 or even master-level event quest? Yes, that's pretty much nearly half the champions you have designed have little use for high-end content. I understand that if every champion were created equally good, players need not have to go out spending money gambling on getting the "better" champions. But forcing players to place "weak" champions to win a competition rather than using skill and organisation is plain ridiculous. Where is the spirit of true sportsmanship?
    I'm sure someone sitting at your position and being in your shoes could figure that out before it being released.

    Second, if you want players to play the diversity points rule, why are you not first, designing nodes that can actually fit those champions? You are still rehashing and re-using most of the previous node-boost, just in different combination and now you say you are still "working on" the mode?!

    So, since you have mentioned many times that you and your team are still working the Alliance Wars mode, why don't you just put back the old map with 1 hour timer and take your own sweet time to redesign the new map alongside new node-boost and possibly improve half the roster before relaunching in one new update? Why are you forcing a work-in-progress on your players? And how many more times do we need to be your guinea pig until it becomes a finished product? It's like saying: "play my new content or just quit playing the game. I don't care." Is this the message players are suppose to get?

    Players frustrations boils down how content and updates are handed to them. 12.0 update was merely making god-level champions more in-line with the rest, yet magneto, gambit, cable and rogue are level 4 mutants and yet, still barely average in the game. Iron Man, Superior Iron Man and Hulkbuster have an array of weapons, yet all they have is armor up, armor break and arc overload. Luke Cage, Joe Fixit, Groot, She-Hulk, Daredevil (netflix), Black Panther (Civil War), Colossus, Miles Morales, Symbiote Spiderman, Deadpool (X-Force), Kamala Khan, Loki, Karnak, Iron Patriot, Falcon, Logan, Red Hulk and many others are still below nerfed God-level champions. Only Dr Strange dropped from God-level to slightly above luke cage. And we are left to no answer as to why he got nerfed so bad.
    Carnage, Vulture, Psylocke, Punisher 2099 and King Groot seem to be designed just to fit monthly events and probably arena calendar rather than being durable.

    How can all this be called balancing? Care to explain?

    P.S. what about the fighting bugs? Champions' move-set bug? Champions sp bug? And all other in-game, non-fighting bugs? How long more or how much more time does your team need to rectify these on-going issues? It's been plaguing the game for awhile already. "Working on it" answer no longer holds any weight. A clear explanation and timeline would at least help.
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  • winterthurwinterthur Member Posts: 8,222 ★★★★★
    winterthur wrote: »

    Read the OP, count the number of times RDT was mentioned, then tell me again with a straight face that this is not a No-RDT-butthurt post.

    I meant my post itself is not a support for RDT. :)
  • Nexus_UY_ScutiNexus_UY_Scuti Member Posts: 480 ★★
    UC439 wrote: »
    @Nexus_UY_Scuti

    U'll rank up medusa bcz u think medusa is better than gamora, & it'll be ur personal strategy to use it over her. No one is forcing it.

    In case of defenders, all of them were ranked up bcz they were and still are far better than other champions in defense. I had no plan, no strategy to rank them down. It is due to the change in the system that I cannot use them for what they were brought up for bcz duplicates are getting punished now.

    U cannot ask for RDTs when the rank down choices are of ur own, but when it is forcefully implemented, then the request is justisfied.

    No such thing as "defenders". Champs are champs. Ranking them up solely for the purpose of defense is, i quote you, your personal strategy. No one is forcing it.
  • UC439UC439 Member Posts: 261
    UC439 wrote: »
    @Nexus_UY_Scuti

    U'll rank up medusa bcz u think medusa is better than gamora, & it'll be ur personal strategy to use it over her. No one is forcing it.

    In case of defenders, all of them were ranked up bcz they were and still are far better than other champions in defense. I had no plan, no strategy to rank them down. It is due to the change in the system that I cannot use them for what they were brought up for bcz duplicates are getting punished now.

    U cannot ask for RDTs when the rank down choices are of ur own, but when it is forcefully implemented, then the request is justisfied.

    No such thing as "defenders". Champs are champs. Ranking them up solely for the purpose of defense is, i quote you, your personal strategy. No one is forcing it.

    yes that's my personal strategy & I want to stick to it. I had no intention to rank them down anytime in future till they declared they'll punish me for placing duplicate defenders.

    If champs are champs and all are equally viable for offense or defense, then why did they have to impose "defender diversity" all on a sudden? Because they know they've created a set of champions with brilliant defending abilities that those are becoming first choice for every player to put in defense.

    Don't say it was done to break ties, there rarely have been any ties in AW v1.0
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