But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Now you are misrepresenting arguments. No one has said that people with only should not qualify, the argument is that they are not part of the target audiance, and them getting it is more so that the target audience is not punished.
What they “said” versus what they did is key here.
I realize Miike said TB was aimed at players with multiple R3’s, but Miike says a lot of things—to me, that sounds like something someone said at some team meeting somewhere—not really meant to be taken as Gospel.
The fact that it isn’t what they did speaks louder than something someone heard someone say somewhere.
I’m in total agreement with people like @xNig here—make it only available after 100% Act 6, Abyss and whatever else. In fact, make it contingent on being 100% done with all new content within 30 days of its release and make it a title you can lose if you don’t. Heck, give it to only the first 100 to complete new content.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
the implementation of it indicates the target audience is many R3s as well, as if they wanted the target audience to be just 1 r3 then they would have made it easier than 1 r3.
If the audience was many R3s then it should have been many R3s. We can do this circle all day.
If the objective were many R3s then reaching the target would require luck, by lowering the target they allowed the target to get the objective without any RNG, making your statement make no sense.
But people had multiple R3s before Thronebreaker was out. This is the argument people keep pushing who are Thronebreaker. So why didn't they keep that? Oh right. Because they didn't want the 1% who would be Thronebreaker by Cyber Weekend to be closer to 0.1%.
This isn't about giving players something to aim for, this is 100% about Kabam pushing players to pay further. They knew rhat having the Carrot so high would deter the majority of Cav players from attempting to get to Thronebreaker, and by "lowering" the bar to entry made it easier for people to be twisted into buying the so called "rare" T5CC frags selectors.
If you think that Kabam is doing this to be anything other than greedy and strong arm those who want to earn rewards that they are 100% capable of doing before the arbitrary entry barrier was put in, you are blind. This is only causing a rift between players, and not what any company should aspire to do.
why didnt they keep what? your argument makes no sense. Yes they have a threashold for what they want to get the title over time, that is not a money grab
The only rift is creating is between players who feel entitled to the best rewards (cavs) and those who dont. This is the same argument that was dismissed by the playerbase when uncollected because second class citizens.
No... you could get Cav by skill, BG did it in a week. You can’t get TB solely by skill because it’s locked behind a requirement to have a rank 3 6 star, and even then it’s not even guaranteed if you will be able to take someone up because let’s be honest not everyone is going to rank 3 a Dormamu, but with these deals and the way Cav is being nerfed they feel obliged to otherwise they will get shafted with everything
I have never said you couldnt get cav by skill, I litterally said you could. So I am not sure what your "no..."means.
And no, you cannot get TB by anything other thing luck....UNLESS YOU ARE BELOW THE TARGET AUDIANCE
If you have a T5CC you are the target audience, you were just shafted by RNG. Don’t try to tell me that having bad RNG takes you out of the target audience because it will make you look like a massive fool. You would literally defend a steaming pile of dung if it was put out for $500 dollars
No, you are not, as they have stated. If you have only acquired 1 TC55 you are not in the target audience of multiple r3s, just by sheer math. They allow you to get it with the help of RNG to make sure that the target audience is not hurt by RNG.
The target isn’t multiple rank 3’s you foolish man, the target is 1 rank 3 and all you need for that is a T5CC and a 5 star champ of that class, except not everyone will take a dud to rank 3
I don’t know if people pushed to do Abyss for getting TB, but nowadays “The Abyss stared back” title, might have become more common, even than “Elder’s Bane” title and that says a lot 😉
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Now you are misrepresenting arguments. No one has said that people with only should not qualify, the argument is that they are not part of the target audiance, and them getting it is more so that the target audience is not punished.
You’ve made the argument that a three R3 requirement would have been too subject to the vagaries of RNG. Hence, the decision for a single R3 requirement...which is in no way subject to the vagaries of RNG.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Now you are misrepresenting arguments. No one has said that people with only should not qualify, the argument is that they are not part of the target audiance, and them getting it is more so that the target audience is not punished.
You’ve made the argument that a three R3 requirement would have been too subject to the vagaries of RNG. Hence, the decision for a single R3 requirement...which is in no way subject to the vagaries of RNG.
Dr. Zola
For a person who is in the target audience, yes, for people who are not in in the target audience they would be limited by RNG, that is no way claiming that the person who is limited by RNG should not be given it, as was your claim was being said.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Good points. I agree with most of what you are saying.
I believe strongly the timing on the introduction of thronebreaker was monetarily based.... but it doesn't really matter. If we operate under the assumption the above statement is true than to me its only logical. You spend to save time. If someone wants it now...spend (either cash or time) to get it. That's how progression games work...everywhere.
In the end, the requirements are what they are. And whether easier or rng based or *gasp* able to be bought... none of that really matters either. Time or money. The player decides. And that's really what all the previous offers were too when you really boil it down. Just because something may not directly tie into progression, doesn't mean it had nothing to do with progression. Depth of roster has always been associated with progression however loosely.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Good points. I agree with most of what you are saying.
I believe strongly the timing on the introduction of thronebreaker was monetarily based.... but it doesn't really matter. If we operate under the assumption the above statement is true than to me its only logical. You spend to save time. If someone wants it now...spend (either cash or time) to get it. That's how progression games work...everywhere.
In the end, the requirements are what they are. And whether easier or rng based or *gasp* able to be bought... none of that really matters either. Time or money. The player decides. And that's really what all the previous offers were too when you really boil it down. Just because something may not directly tie into progression, doesn't mean it had nothing to do with progression. Depth of roster has always been associated with progression however loosely.
Right. I think we are basically on the same page. My issue is with posturing that pretends there is something super-special about the jump from Cav to TB.
Basically, it’s like Cavs are stuck at a lower ante table with a decent chunk of the rabble while others have been invited to the more exclusive, higher ante table. But it’s all still the same casino.
3 guys did an Abyss run the past few days in my alliance. One is currently at IW. Cavs are getting screwed over so bad it's forcing guys to do it. Good for business, but shady af imo.
oh noes, progression titles push you to do progression....
Special quests like Abyss weren’t intended to become “progressional” content—remember how it was supposed to be years before anyone could do it?
The ad hoc decisions—after the Roadmap was announced—to shift titles away from completing and exploring story quests is at the root of the problem. Poor design of Act 6 and a desire to monetize titles are also key causes.
I’m glad you have TB. It seems very important to you. But anyone who fails to acknowledge how lumping all Cavs together creates legitimate issues probably isn’t being fair or honest.
Dr. Zola
Speaking some true facts over there. ROL, LOL and AOL were never meant for progression, they were just meant for players who played this game a lot or whaled on it.
But once you water it down or start selling access, then all those arguments about “target audience” are null and void.
Dr. Zola
Interesting take. Can you elaborate? I guess I'm curious as to why this time is different. They sold t5 basic. They sold t2a. They've sold t4cc. So why is this time different.
I'm genuinely curious here.
The point being made above was that players with one R3 shouldn’t even qualify for TB because a mod said in an anecdote that at one time TB was meant for the very highest progression players—those with full teams of R3’s.
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Good points. I agree with most of what you are saying.
I believe strongly the timing on the introduction of thronebreaker was monetarily based.... but it doesn't really matter. If we operate under the assumption the above statement is true than to me its only logical. You spend to save time. If someone wants it now...spend (either cash or time) to get it. That's how progression games work...everywhere.
In the end, the requirements are what they are. And whether easier or rng based or *gasp* able to be bought... none of that really matters either. Time or money. The player decides. And that's really what all the previous offers were too when you really boil it down. Just because something may not directly tie into progression, doesn't mean it had nothing to do with progression. Depth of roster has always been associated with progression however loosely.
Right. I think we are basically on the same page. My issue is with posturing that pretends there is something super-special about the jump from Cav to TB.
Basically, it’s like Cavs are stuck at a lower ante table with a decent chunk of the rabble while others have been invited to the more exclusive, higher ante table. But it’s all still the same casino.
Dr. Zola
There's nothing "special" about it. It is something that takes one of or a combination of a significant time or money investment. Some people choose to use only one means to get there some use a combination of both. If people don't want to invest money (a choice I fully support and recommend to people as I know the road that can lead to), they are going to have to spend a significant amount of time more than likely. Yes, there are absolutely people that will just have the stars align and things fall in their lap with the bare minimum effort put in, but at the end of the day that still means that everyone has that chance at least.
Comments
When you say a title is reserved only for “elite” players, but then open it up to “less elite” players, it’s difficult to make a plausible claim it’s only for elite players. And then when you sell offers providing the means to get that title even to “less less elite” players, then you’ve more or less confirmed the target for your title is a good bit broader than only the true “elite.”
Owning multiple R3 champs is a much harder slog than a single R3 obviously—it’s much less likely to be something you can buy without also doing Map 7, Abyss, 100% Act 6, all variants (although I’m sure there are some who do all those things and still buy every T5c offer that comes around).
With a little gameplay, a “less less elite” player can buy enough deals to form a single T5c. Buying three or more is pretty much impossible in today’s game without also finishing difficult content.
Once the game watered down TB requirements—and made the hardest part of meeting them a single catalyst that can be bought—there’s really not a plausible argument that players who lack multiple R3’s aren’t part of the TB audience (although the poster above maintains that’s still the case in what I hope for his sake is a bad example of Google translate).
What drove the team’s decision to change TB requirements? That’s the anecdotal conversation I’d like to hear.
And all of that makes this instance a little different. Previous hard to come by catalysts never specifically carried this progressional element with them. Certainly, having a higher ranked champ might make Act 5 or 6.1 a bit easier, but that rankup wasn’t the primary gate to a progression title.
Dr. Zola
Dr. Zola
I believe strongly the timing on the introduction of thronebreaker was monetarily based.... but it doesn't really matter. If we operate under the assumption the above statement is true than to me its only logical. You spend to save time. If someone wants it now...spend (either cash or time) to get it. That's how progression games work...everywhere.
In the end, the requirements are what they are. And whether easier or rng based or *gasp* able to be bought... none of that really matters either. Time or money. The player decides. And that's really what all the previous offers were too when you really boil it down. Just because something may not directly tie into progression, doesn't mean it had nothing to do with progression. Depth of roster has always been associated with progression however loosely.
Basically, it’s like Cavs are stuck at a lower ante table with a decent chunk of the rabble while others have been invited to the more exclusive, higher ante table. But it’s all still the same casino.
Dr. Zola
If you want the rewards put in the work. It pays off.