Champion Trading. Disagree button at the bottom.

Mars_Ultor

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

Notsavage19

I love the bias.

Mars_Ultor

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Unknown

This content has been removed.

DRTO

The argument has been laid out time and time again, and it's all come to the conclusion that the majority of people don't support trading, so there's absolutely no reason for you to make this thread. You can make any disclaimer you want we can see it's just another post about wanting it. But it won't happen so just stop with this nonsense.

Mars_Ultor

DRTO said:

The argument has been laid out time and time again, and it's all come to the conclusion that the majority of people don't support trading, so there's absolutely no reason for you to make this thread. You can make any disclaimer you want we can see it's just another post about wanting it. But it won't happen so just stop with this nonsense.

Yes there's a reason, I didn't think my account had enough disagrees.

But truth, like I said above, the reason is to see what people would change to make trading viable. Even your requirement is that you can only trade the same champions, (e.g. Deadpool for Deadpool) I know everyone wants trading in some form. I know you do.

C'mon.

I know you do.

Grean

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

can someone resume this for me in 1 sentence?

Notsavage19

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

Mars_Ultor

Grean said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

can someone resume this for me in 1 sentence?

1 sentance. Okay.

"Some Idiot wants to know what your requirements for trading would be if it (Hypothetically) HAS to enter the game next month."

Mars_Ultor

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

And if you ask me, the Gacha is the stupidest part of the game. Why can't I play Black widow Deadly origin? because this game is entirely RNG based. Even if they made a gamemode where I could play her as a 3* at any time, it would be fixed.

Notsavage19

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

And if you ask me, the Gacha is the stupidest part of the game. Why can't I play Black widow Deadly origin? because this game is entirely RNG based.

Yes, the game is RNG-based. So why change that? Are you saying that all gacha games are stupid because they rely on RNG? LMAO

JragonMaster170

Notsavage19

Mars_Ultor said:

DRTO said:

The argument has been laid out time and time again, and it's all come to the conclusion that the majority of people don't support trading, so there's absolutely no reason for you to make this thread. You can make any disclaimer you want we can see it's just another post about wanting it. But it won't happen so just stop with this nonsense.

Yes there's a reason, I didn't think my account had enough disagrees.

But truth, like I said above, the reason is to see what people would change to make trading viable. Even your requirement is that you can only trade the same champions, (e.g. Deadpool for Deadpool) I know everyone wants trading in some form. I know you do.

C'mon.

I know you do.

No, because that just defeats the whole purpose of the game.

Mars_Ultor

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

And if you ask me, the Gacha is the stupidest part of the game. Why can't I play Black widow Deadly origin? because this game is entirely RNG based.

Yes, the game is RNG-based. So why change that? Are you saying that all gacha games are stupid because they rely on RNG? LMAO

I don't know, Haven't played many Gacha games. And This is why I posted this, so that you can tell me exactly what I'm saying wrong for the A side.

Mars_Ultor

JragonMaster170 said:

Ah Ah Ah, that's a Genaric template. Those are not allowed.

dot_ditto

Grean said:

can someone resume this for me in 1 sentence?

Sure ... Mr. Torgue .. care to take this?

Notsavage19

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

And if you ask me, the Gacha is the stupidest part of the game. Why can't I play Black widow Deadly origin? because this game is entirely RNG based.

Yes, the game is RNG-based. So why change that? Are you saying that all gacha games are stupid because they rely on RNG? LMAO

I don't know, Haven't played many Gacha games. And This is why I posted this, so that you can tell me exactly what I'm saying wrong for the A side.

What I said above is what is the main problem for a trading system where Summoners would be able to get a specific character on-demand. Kabam has never released anything like this before and it also goes against the basis of the game. All the evidence points towards champion acquisition as an RNG-influenced element.

Mars_Ultor

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Notsavage19 said:

I love the bias.

I did my best, OK

Well apparently not, because you failed to acknowledge the main argument of the "A" side, which is that this game is a "gacha" game and by allowing players to choose specific characters to obtain, it defeats the whole purpose of the game. Of course there are ways to lower the effect that RNG has on champion acquisition, such as a FHC, but that's still subject to RNG. The only few ways of obtaining characters are either as Trophy Champions (and even then, everyone has access to those champions), and Arena. Arena is different from trading in that the player has no control over what character is going to be in the arenas at any given point. Furthermore, there is a "work" aspect to Arena that Trading just doesn't cover.

And if you ask me, the Gacha is the stupidest part of the game. Why can't I play Black widow Deadly origin? because this game is entirely RNG based.

Yes, the game is RNG-based. So why change that? Are you saying that all gacha games are stupid because they rely on RNG? LMAO

I don't know, Haven't played many Gacha games. And This is why I posted this, so that you can tell me exactly what I'm saying wrong for the A side.

What I said above is what is the main problem for a trading system where Summoners would be able to get a specific character on-demand. Kabam has never released anything like this before and it also goes against the basis of the game. All the evidence points towards champion acquisition as an RNG-influenced element.

The Basis of the game is actually to be able to play the champion, and to learn to play different in-game fighting styles. Part of that is getting the champs with the fighting styles you want, which is incredibly difficult at the moment. If the Basis were simply to have every champion sitting on my account, I could technically beat the entire game by buying PHC crystals with units, joining alliances that complete objectives that give PHC's, and never touching act 1.1.1.

Dr_Z01dberg

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

Mars_Ultor

Dr_Z01dberg said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

I suppose part of this was lack of clarification on my part.
REASON #1: If your alliance leader is that big of a duck, you should just leave in the first place.
REASON # 2: I forgot to mention (indeed) the argument on F side, "The champions traded must be of the same tire, ergo 6* for 6*"
REASON # 3: There will be scammers. But there are people already who sell pumped up accounts online, and I don't know how that goes over with Kabam, but it's the same idea and it's already happening. Third party transactions would have to be monitored, but in the end it would work out.
Reason # 4 i can't argue with, because you failed to list the 1000 other ways trading sucks.

Crcrcrc

Dr_Z01dberg said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

6* cgr is worth more than ally gifting rewards unless you got like 60 million points as an alliance

Mars_Ultor

Crcrcrc said:

Dr_Z01dberg said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

6* cgr is worth more than ally gifting rewards unless you got like 60 million points as an alliance

Damnm if I'm not glad you're on my side about this, CRCRCRC

Crcrcrc

Mars_Ultor said:

Crcrcrc said:

Dr_Z01dberg said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

6* cgr is worth more than ally gifting rewards unless you got like 60 million points as an alliance

Damnm if I'm not glad you're on my side about this, CRCRCRC

I never want trading to come into this game, it would be the end of it. But if it did, people do have to make reasonable arguments back. If the system did occur, it would have to have a Pokemon Go-style system where you see what the other person is giving before hitting confirm.

Mars_Ultor

Crcrcrc said:

Mars_Ultor said:

Crcrcrc said:

Dr_Z01dberg said:

Mars_Ultor said:

All right, so here it comes.
Champion trading
(I know, I know, I KNOW!!!)
Before you scroll down to the bottom of this undoubtedly GIGANTIC thread opener to click on the little frowny face labeled, "Disagree," and whip out your comment template for "Generic Champion Trading Roast," just know that I am not advocating this idea. Not in this post. This post is purely to lay out the argument, for both sides, so that we can take the longest and most scrutinizing look at this can of worms possible. I'm going to lay out arguments I've heard, on both sides, and I would like you guys to know that THEY ARE NOT MY ARGUMENTS! I am attempting to mediate this argument. I am currently under the naive notion that the most educated and, preferably, most literate scholars for both sides will come and peaceably debate the pros and cons. If you read nothing of the above, just know that THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT WEATHER OR NOT CHAMPION TRADING IS VIABLE. I think we already established that it's not. What I want to discuss is HOW CAN WE MAKE IT VIABLE. Here are the arguments I promised, translated from Random Troll into Educated English, the 3 sides being F (for the idea) A (against the idea) and M (my personal stance on the subject. These are the ones you can thoroughly roast).

1. The point of the game is to collect champions, and trading would be too overpowered for that.
A. "The only way you're supposed to get champions is by the blood and sweat of your own brow. Trading would be the wimpy way to
do this, because it takes the work out of champion collecting."
F. "The facts are, everybody knows that there is around a 1 in 150 chance of pulling the specific champion that I want to pull. With a
champion trading system, I could have a 100% chance of getting the champion I need. This would not be too overpowered,
because I would be losing a champion simultaneously."
M. "Look, I gotta side with F on this one. As rare as it may be, it is possible to play the game for as long as you want, and never get the
champion you want. Even in arena, it's based entirely on points that other people are scoring, that you can't see. So you can't know
how many you need. With a trading system, you just have to settle a deal somehow."
2. Some champions are more OP than others, so the system would be fundamentally unbalanced.
2a. Some people could be scammed, trading their Killmonger for what they think is a Ghost, only to get King Groot.
A. "Yeah, that."
F. "Simply implement a system in which both champions are visible to both champions, with mutual confirmation being
the only way to execute the trade."
M. "What F said."
2b. Champions could be traded between main and mini accounts, to collect all of the OP ones on a single account.
A. "So, I'll just trade my Free-to-Play account my Hype from my side account in exchange for a Deadpool X-Force. Man, this
game is sooooo difficult."
F. "Well you see,... The thing is... *Ahem* No comment."
M. "I think that this is a perfectly acceptable use of the system. Because, you're going to play Hype anyway, right? Just switch
to FTP and go ham! The only difference is now Hype is on your main."
2c. Even if they're not getting scammed, the deals are unfair.
A. "Some guy on global doesn't care anymore, and trades his 6* CGR for your first 6*, a Rhino. Fair... How, Exactly?"
F. "Well, perhaps they could put tags or something, where characters such as CGR are labeled God-Tier, and Rhino, Meme tier."
M. "First of all, lets get rid of the GGR for Rhino deal. Maybe something more like...Massacre for Colossus? Still an offset deal.
But if Billy wants a Massacre, why can't he trade his Colossus? And if Billy wants to do the deal, Why shouldn't Bobby take
him up on the offer? Besides, who will trade CGR for Rhino? Most deals would probably look well balanced, Like me trading
Warlock for my brother's Sunspot. Both good champs, being exchanged fairly. No one would intentionally take the short
end of the stick."

One final note before you guys open up the flame cannons on me. I think they should implement a Trading system for an event next Christmas. Everyone gets one Adaptoid crystal. They open the Adaptoid crystal, which is full of different Class adaptoid, each with specialized powers. The adaptoids can be traded, but at the end of the event, They all disappear. This would just be to see how OP the system would be, and how people would use it. Anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna go hang out in my Flame War bunker.

You haven’t mentioned probably the biggest reason that this shouldn’t enter the game, the ability to exploit other players.

Let’s say there is a champion trading system right now and my alliance leader turns round to me and says “send me your 6* CGR for my 2* Spider-Man or I’ll kick you before the gifting rewards are given out” then I am pressured into doing it or not receiving the rewards earned

Add into that the people who will sell desired champs for cash (£500 for 6* Doom) and those who would also use this to scam actual money out of people without sending them the champ after paying

Also the other 1000 valid reasons why this should never be let anywhere near the game

6* cgr is worth more than ally gifting rewards unless you got like 60 million points as an alliance

Damnm if I'm not glad you're on my side about this, CRCRCRC

I never want trading to come into this game, it would be the end of it. But if it did, people do have to make reasonable arguments back. If the system did occur, it would have to have a Pokemon Go-style system where you see what the other person is giving before hitting confirm.

I understand, I just thought you would be one of the Mindless meme posters like Mr. JragonMaster.
And, also, that would be part of the idea.

centennial

I would support trading if there were some super-rare 5* Trading gem. If both parties have one they can trade 5*s of equal rank and equal level

Mars_Ultor

centennial said:

I would support trading if there were some super-rare 5* Trading gem. If both parties have one they can trade 5*s of equal rank and equal level

That... is a really good idea. Although maybe you just need one to instigate the trade, because then if you want to trade with someone who doesn't have the super-rare trading gem, and they don't have one, you're screwed. And also, the general consensus is that you can trade any rank and level, but then they reset to default PI. But I like this idea. And honestly, I think this might be acceptable to the general community. Anyone disagree?

Crcrcrc

centennial said:

I would support trading if there were some super-rare 5* Trading gem. If both parties have one they can trade 5*s of equal rank and equal level

Like Clash Royale, good idea

Luke9523

Honestly, do we really need another "How can we make trading work/trading debate" thread? There's 3 threads that are exactly the same at the minute, one of which was closed down.
Trading is not going to be introduced in this game. There's not enough people that want it, and quite frankly, GOOD! If you want trading that badly, go find a different game to play.

Mars_Ultor

Luke9523 said:

Honestly, do we really need another "How can we make trading work/trading debate" thread? There's 3 threads that are exactly the same at the minute, one of which was closed down.
Trading is not going to be introduced in this game. There's not enough people that want it, and quite frankly, GOOD! If you want trading that badly, go find a different game to play.

I'm about to be totally honest here, I don't necessarily want trading to be introduced to the game. What I love is spitballing here with people like centennial, and anyone else who wants to, about how, if they ever do input it, we would like to see it.

Also, this is technically a meme, which were explicitly banned in the OG post. I'm gonna let it slide, because you wrote an actual comment as well, just don't let it happen again.

Mars_Ultor

You know, so far, this thread hasn't been that bad. I got minimal trolls, and even a couple of constructive comments here.

Gardener

I like the last test part