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The hardest champs to master are all women .../raiseeyebrow

13

Comments

  • Options
    Will3808Will3808 Posts: 3,610 ★★★★★

    I think the real problem here is how OP interprets the game. If I say Quake, Ghost and Tigra are really, really good champs, but hard to play, there are a number of opinions you can form. I personally think, 'Oh! They're great! I need to practice using them!"
    Someone else may think that it's great that they belong to different classes, for variety.

    Believe me, I am all of political correctness (much to the annoyance of everyone around me), but sometimes the fault lies in with the thinking pattern.

    If a person sees these three champs and thinks "They're women! They're hard to use" and they stick with this narrow minded approach, that is wrong, and hands down sexist.

    The two most game-breaking champs, who can single handedly cheese almost all content, who the forum collectively agrees are #1 and #2 best champs, are difficult to master. You have a problem with the best things being difficult to perfect/acquire?

    If anyone tries to say that Kabam are sexist, then they oughta know that the best two champs are female, and if they think that good things come easy, then they have fundamental flaws in their logic as is.

    On a side note, people often say that they don't discriminate gender or race or whatever. But they often fail to realise that the discrimination is in-built. The fact that you saw these champs and you thought "They are female, and hard to use. There's an issue here. People can use this as an argument" that itself is discriminatory. Feminism is about giving females the same respect that men get, not saying "Kabam should make male champs hard to use so they don't seem sexist." That's the same as looking at a female CEO who works 12 hours a day, and thinking "The company should hire a male CEO, so it doesn't seem like the females work too hard", while completely disrespecting the capability of the female.

    This is pretty much what I was going to say.

    The only thing I’d add is I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that Kabam needs to design some male characters that are really difficult to play to even things out gender wise because this is reading to far into it.

    Realistically if someone was to make an article about this fact the points they’d make would be pretty easily shut down and nothing would come of it. I would look at that as if someone was trying to find some small detail to get upset about just for the sake of getting upset or having something to criticize.
  • Options
    Agent_X_zzzAgent_X_zzz Posts: 4,495 ★★★★★
    Dumbest thing I have seen today
  • Options
    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




  • Options
    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,228 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Now this I can’t agree with. I know that when I find a character that I can personally relate to, it’s a good feeling. Movies, books, video games, wherever. It’s a positive thing. From a cold, calculating, marketing perspective Kabam is best served by introducing a diverse array of characters for players to identify with because it helps sell crystals.

    More directly to the point though, “Gamers” aren’t a monolith. Everybody’s going to have a different take on this point and that’s fine and cool and whatever. But don’t try to universalize your opinion as if it is held by all people who play, because it just isn’t.
  • Options
    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Lol, I don't even live in the USA, and yep, game research happens as a matter of fact all over the world. Lol!!

    Saying that only gamers like games thus no one else should care about games is like saying that regular people like money, so economists should not bother studying how people use/spend/exchange money. It's the concern of the regular people only so some guy in some University shouldn't be thinking about it.

    LoL!

    And what you mention about subjectivity. Lol!! In which part did I say that I am conducting research through this thread??? Lol! I don't even research these topics in this games, I research stuff completely unrelated, I just happen to know a lot of people who look into the social representations of games. But yeah, nope ,conducting game research is far from posting a thread on a forum lol! 😅😂🤣. Dunno to laugh or cry though about your "idea" of what according to you is game research.


    Anyway, lets go back to the memes and the math that's waaay more entertaining.
  • Options
    CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,942 ★★★★★

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Lol, I don't even live in the USA, and yep, game research happens as a matter of fact all over the world. Lol!!

    Saying that only gamers like games thus no one else should care about games is like saying that regular people like money, so economists should not bother studying how people use/spend/exchange money. It's the concern of the regular people only so some guy in some University shouldn't be thinking about it.

    LoL!

    And what you mention about subjectivity. Lol!! In which part did I say that I am conducting research through this thread??? Lol! I don't even research these topics in this games, I research stuff completely unrelated, I just happen to know a lot of people who look into the social representations of games. But yeah, nope ,conducting game research is far from posting a thread on a forum lol! 😅😂🤣. Dunno to laugh or cry though about your "idea" of what according to you is game research.


    Anyway, lets go back to the memes and the math that's waaay more entertaining.
    Just curious, what does a game researcher actually do?
  • Options
    RookiieRookiie Posts: 4,821 ★★★★★
    Everybody is focusing on the gender aspect - with every right to do so. That was totally absurd, OP.
    But you also want Kabam to come up with 'difficult to master' champions? That's the exact opposite of the direction they're taking in the Champions of the Contest roadmap.
    Why would you want the opposite for the player base?
    Fundamentals, bro.
  • Options
    ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Now this I can’t agree with. I know that when I find a character that I can personally relate to, it’s a good feeling. Movies, books, video games, wherever. It’s a positive thing. From a cold, calculating, marketing perspective Kabam is best served by introducing a diverse array of characters for players to identify with because it helps sell crystals.

    More directly to the point though, “Gamers” aren’t a monolith. Everybody’s going to have a different take on this point and that’s fine and cool and whatever. But don’t try to universalize your opinion as if it is held by all people who play, because it just isn’t.
    OK, so do you play games because you enjoy them or because you want to look at social representation on them and find perceived injustices?

    Yes, there will always be a small vocalised group who do that, and will yell about it in their echo chambers. But the majority really do not care about it.

    Enjoying a game or any other media because of the characters is great and that's healthy. Disliking those same things because it feels like it unfair or misrepresentation in some fashion is purely a subjective opinion.
  • Options
    KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Wicket329 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Now this I can’t agree with. I know that when I find a character that I can personally relate to, it’s a good feeling. Movies, books, video games, wherever. It’s a positive thing. From a cold, calculating, marketing perspective Kabam is best served by introducing a diverse array of characters for players to identify with because it helps sell crystals.

    More directly to the point though, “Gamers” aren’t a monolith. Everybody’s going to have a different take on this point and that’s fine and cool and whatever. But don’t try to universalize your opinion as if it is held by all people who play, because it just isn’t.
    OK, so do you play games because you enjoy them or because you want to look at social representation on them and find perceived injustices?

    Yes, there will always be a small vocalised group who do that, and will yell about it in their echo chambers. But the majority really do not care about it.

    Enjoying a game or any other media because of the characters is great and that's healthy. Disliking those same things because it feels like it unfair or misrepresentation in some fashion is purely a subjective opinion.
    You don't miss 🏹
  • Options
    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★
    Crcrcrc said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Lol, I don't even live in the USA, and yep, game research happens as a matter of fact all over the world. Lol!!

    Saying that only gamers like games thus no one else should care about games is like saying that regular people like money, so economists should not bother studying how people use/spend/exchange money. It's the concern of the regular people only so some guy in some University shouldn't be thinking about it.

    LoL!

    And what you mention about subjectivity. Lol!! In which part did I say that I am conducting research through this thread??? Lol! I don't even research these topics in this games, I research stuff completely unrelated, I just happen to know a lot of people who look into the social representations of games. But yeah, nope ,conducting game research is far from posting a thread on a forum lol! 😅😂🤣. Dunno to laugh or cry though about your "idea" of what according to you is game research.


    Anyway, lets go back to the memes and the math that's waaay more entertaining.
    Just curious, what does a game researcher actually do?
    That question has as many answers as academic disciplines engaged with the study of video games. You can study them through the lens of Economics is you are interested in that part, you can study them from a Literary Analysis perspective if you are looking into the narrative embedded in games, Aesthetics if you are looking into the design language, Cultural Anthropology if you look into how different cultures tend to produce different kind of games that express cultural identity (example Japanese Video games vs American) , Social Network Analysis if you study how social formations emerge within them .. etc. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of answers to your question.
  • Options
    CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,942 ★★★★★
    edited February 2021

    Crcrcrc said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Lol, I don't even live in the USA, and yep, game research happens as a matter of fact all over the world. Lol!!

    Saying that only gamers like games thus no one else should care about games is like saying that regular people like money, so economists should not bother studying how people use/spend/exchange money. It's the concern of the regular people only so some guy in some University shouldn't be thinking about it.

    LoL!

    And what you mention about subjectivity. Lol!! In which part did I say that I am conducting research through this thread??? Lol! I don't even research these topics in this games, I research stuff completely unrelated, I just happen to know a lot of people who look into the social representations of games. But yeah, nope ,conducting game research is far from posting a thread on a forum lol! 😅😂🤣. Dunno to laugh or cry though about your "idea" of what according to you is game research.


    Anyway, lets go back to the memes and the math that's waaay more entertaining.
    Just curious, what does a game researcher actually do?
    That question has as many answers as academic disciplines engaged with the study of video games. You can study them through the lens of Economics is you are interested in that part, you can study them from a Literary Analysis perspective if you are looking into the narrative embedded in games, Aesthetics if you are looking into the design language, Cultural Anthropology if you look into how different cultures tend to produce different kind of games that express cultural identity (example Japanese Video games vs American) , Social Network Analysis if you study how social formations emerge within them .. etc. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of answers to your question.
    What is your field of game research? Is it like a political correctness in games thing?
  • Options
    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★
    Social Network Analysis, with a bit of Cult Anth thrown into it. And before you or anyone asks, NO I AM NOT CONDUCTING RESEARCH ON MCOC. Mcoc Is one of the few games I play purely for fun. I study other games which I actually don't enjoy playing (that don't mix pleasure with work bit) .
  • Options
    Scopeotoe987Scopeotoe987 Posts: 1,550 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    Plot twist: OP is actually from Buzzfeed or Daily mail.

    More like CNN sometimes lol
  • Options
    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,228 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Wicket329 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    I don't know what's worse, the fact that you made this post or the fact that you're serious.

    It is a MOBILE GAME. We don't need one god tier champ that represents every minority, because then they would have to start making champs just for that, instead of interesting comic ones. Don't get me wrong, I love when representation happens, but I would pick the alien or robot every time for the new champ, because they're cooler in the comics. Don't try to start a fight over things that have literally no issues. Nobody has had a problem with how the game's champions work. We don't need someone to come and fight for a high skill cap male champ just because he's a male. That makes no sense in a Marvel game.

    Uh this. Just this. Couldn’t have said it better myself. People need to stop forcing messages into things.

    Lol I'm having a blast with the memes and the math!

    In the meantime I'll say this:
    The fact that YOU or the people around YOU does not see the underpinnings of the cultural effects that such things as a MOBILE GAME have on society does not mean that OTHERS clearly see them.

    I'll put it this way. Remember what I said about games being a form of digital media? Well stay with me here. Let's say we both read a novel. Novels are a form of media too. You read it and may interpret X hidden (or not) message from it. Your interpretation is fine, good, valid because it is your own. No problem there.

    The thing is that a literary critic, one that has been schooled in undergrad and graduate school in how to deconstruct to the bone a novel ... and infer from it a vast array of things that go from the historical conjuctures of when it was written, to the psychology of the author to the cultural manifestations present in it ........ will have a vastly different interpretation of said novel. This interpretation is not necessarily better or worse than your own, just different because it has its eyes trained into a different set of aspects from it.

    Now imagine a literary critic like this but of video games. THAT IS THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH. Why studying video games is important? For the same reason you are readig this post: PEOPLE SPEND LOTSA TIME PLAYING THEM. And millions of dollars too. Anything that catches the attention of people is worth studying in terms of why/how it catches the attention and what cultural underpinnings/effects does this media have. It was one colleague that mentioned to me , and I quote:

    "Kabam is just asking to be picked upon by the woke crowd"

    And when I heard it, it made me think. As I said on the OP and on several posts after it, I do not agree if someone says that Kabam is being sexist by portraying Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra as "complicated to handle" , but I immediately started to think in how to deconstrue such argument if I ever encountered someone who said so. From this conversation @Scarcity27 gave me the ammunition to base this argument, thanks again!

    Nothing else to see here on that argument.

    Of course do keep the memes and the memes ( "stupidIst" or not, lol 😂) coming, I'm having a blast. But don't think for a second that someone that is trained to study something that YOU play/are engaged with for hours a day or per week will not have something different to say about that very thing than YOU play. If it is something that you are spending hours of your life and real money in, then it makes sense for someone to seek to have a critical perspective on it.

    Which brings me back to a post I read in this very forum I read years ago ( too lazy to look for it) which was titled something like " This game is whitewashed " or something like that. In that post the OP was lamenting that minorities were not equally represented in the game ( this was like 4 years ago) . When I read it I remember rolling my eyes cuz I said " this is a beef with the source material, which is from Marvel, not Kabam.... Kabam just merely mostly puts in the game stuff previously made by Marvel, so Kabam cannot be made responsible if Marvel has not been woke for the past 50 years or so." I remember I didn't actually post in that thread because I figured the OP was a minority and well, he/she was definitely entitled to ask for representation if he/she spends a dime on this game, so I accepted that his point of view was valid given his/her own framework of reference.

    Which brings me back to my OP. The OP was about the gender underpinnings of gameplay mechanics, something Kabam, not Marvel, is responsible for. That is why I brought it to Kabam forums, otherwise I would have gone to Marvel. Regardless, the issue from the OP has been solved by @Scarcity27 , so....



    TL;DR:

    The OP's issue was resolved by @Scarcity27 . Move along .... but do keep the memes and the math coming!

    And if you have yet another's angle to look at this issue then fire away!




    Games Journalists looking for outrage click bait are the reason that people think that studying the social representation of virtual characters in video games is something that needs to exist.

    It's also something that only exists in America for whatever reason.

    You know who like Video Games? Gamers.
    You know what Gamers care about? If the game is good.
    You know who doesn't like perceived social issues in games? SJWs that don't play most games.

    Your experience in studying video games, or being around people who do, is almost as unimportant as theorising if cheese is as addictive as a drug. No one really cares and makes the masses wonder why money is spent on researching it.

    Subjectivity in the name of "research" does not make it a fact or worth the time to even call it "research".
    Now this I can’t agree with. I know that when I find a character that I can personally relate to, it’s a good feeling. Movies, books, video games, wherever. It’s a positive thing. From a cold, calculating, marketing perspective Kabam is best served by introducing a diverse array of characters for players to identify with because it helps sell crystals.

    More directly to the point though, “Gamers” aren’t a monolith. Everybody’s going to have a different take on this point and that’s fine and cool and whatever. But don’t try to universalize your opinion as if it is held by all people who play, because it just isn’t.
    OK, so do you play games because you enjoy them or because you want to look at social representation on them and find perceived injustices?

    Yes, there will always be a small vocalised group who do that, and will yell about it in their echo chambers. But the majority really do not care about it.

    Enjoying a game or any other media because of the characters is great and that's healthy. Disliking those same things because it feels like it unfair or misrepresentation in some fashion is purely a subjective opinion.
    I’m not arguing that there’s any problem with the game as is. I agree that the original argument (women characters being overly complicated) was a very bad one and I’ve already posted some of why I think that (lots of reasons, it’s not a good take at all).

    My point is the one that you agreed with, that it is good for a game to have characters that a player can relate to because it enhances the player’s experience. For me finding a character that I can see myself in is the same as you playing with your favorite comic character (because for me, the character with a shared background also happens to be one of my favorites). There’s just something more to it. Playing with other characters isn’t lessened by that lack of connection, it’s just different.

    But I’m not trying to say that everybody else does or should hold my same opinion. I know y’all don’t and I’m cool with that. That’s the part of your post I took issue with, lumping all “Gamers” into one group who all happened to hold your beliefs.
  • Options
    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    The thing is that you fail to look at the bigger picture when talking about female characters. If all female characters were presented as hard-to-play with the same amount of usability they have now (for example, Storm having the same damage output but a more complicated playstyle), then I would agree with your view that there may be a bias.

    However, the number of female characters that are "hard-to-play" (ignoring the fact that such an element is purely subjective) isn't significant enough to come to the conclusion that such a bias exists. Again, if all or most female characters were built in this fashion, regardless of damage output, I would agree that there might be a problem.
  • Options
    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★

    Gildenlow said:

    Prof x is amazing and not so easy to use.

    Silver surfer requires special mechanic and has some really good damage.

    Namor and red guardian also has some special way to use to reach amazing damage.

    Prof x is harder than ghost to learn, but dont even try and convince me that red guardian is complicated
    Prof X that hard? Really? Ok, good to know. I don't know as I don't have him. Someone mentioned Air Walker too but ditto.

    Silver Surfer and Red Guardian are nowhere near the skill level needed for Quake, Ghost, IW and Tigra tho. Quake I just gave up, concluded my fingers are just dumb . Ghost I got about a month ago and finally now I can say got the muscle memory/ hang of it . Silver Surfer and RG I dont have them ranked up high but seems to me they are more about paying attention to timers on your abilities/buffs... not so much about muscle memory , correct? Are Prof X and Air Walker about muscle memory too?
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    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★

    The thing is that you fail to look at the bigger picture when talking about female characters. If all female characters were presented as hard-to-play with the same amount of usability they have now (for example, Storm having the same damage output but a more complicated playstyle), then I would agree with your view that there may be a bias.

    However, the number of female characters that are "hard-to-play" (ignoring the fact that such an element is purely subjective) isn't significant enough to come to the conclusion that such a bias exists. Again, if all or most female characters were built in this fashion, regardless of damage output, I would agree that there might be a problem.

    Good point too! 👍🏻
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    DefenestratedDefenestrated Posts: 304 ★★★
    I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

    1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

    2) They find the champions boring to play

    3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill
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    Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

    1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

    2) They find the champions boring to play

    3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill

    I disagree. Most people find Quake and Ghost difficult to play with because their playstyle is very different from the playstyles that other characters use. That on top of the general opinion that Quake and Ghost are hard to play influences an individual's opinion.

    I would disagree with the 3rd statement. The ability to practice is a skill. If skill was not needed to play Quake and Ghost, the same could be said with any area of the game, or even life in general. By practicing, you build skill, and the ability to practice is a skill.
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    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★

    I’d argue Quake and Ghost are not hard to master at all. Anyone can do it. It’s just that they don’t want to because:

    1) They have all the counters needed to complete all content so they don’t find it necessary to learn

    2) They find the champions boring to play

    3) They don’t realize that all it takes to get better at them is practice, not skill

    I'd agree that the "fun" element is important for having the drive to learn them. I gave up on Quake because every time I sat down to try to "learn" her It felt like a chore, like going to work. I play this for fun so I didn't that feeling of " I MUST spend all this time learning her cuz she's #1 champ of the game". She's been a benchwarmer for the last year and a half or so , R4'ed and no plan to R5 her. Interestingly enough, I am better at Doing the Quake'n Heavy playstyle, (which most people seem to regard as the most difficult) but Quake'n Shake and Quake'n Bake elude me.

    Ghost, otoh, felt much "funner" to play from the get go. So I'm happy that at least I can use and enjoy using the #2 champ in the game... and I have her as a 6* duped (lucky streak y 2nd and 3rd featured!)
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    Superchampion_Superchampion_ Posts: 172 ★★★
    edited February 2021

    Not to mention that the implication that women are "hard-to-handle" just because they are more "difficult to learn" is biased. Why not go with the implication that women are more complex than men?

    On the flip side, if the men are "easy", why is that a good thing? Can't I argue that it would paint males out to be stupid brutes?

    It's this savior complex that has people leap to conclusions to try to "help" someone when there is nothing to "save" them from. In this case, it's the assumption that an undertone exists that implies that women are inferior when it doesn't exist (or isn't significant enough to say that it is of importance).

    Definitely agree here. The flip side can also be considered sexist. As I said before, people would be complaining if there weren’t good female champions.

    For the record, I actually have noticed that trend. Female champs tend to be exceptional (or at least some). The champs with highest learning curves are mostly female. The highest damage dealers (hela, proxima and G2099 presumably) are female. That’s a good thing from a game play prospective. If every champ was parry-5 hits-sp2, the game would get boring so variety is needed. This can be a good thing to get people excited for female champs being released.

    I don’t think OP has bad intentions but he got a negative response. I think the reason is that people are tired of hearing this kind of thing. Everyone is trying to find a problem (even if there is none) and then fight it. Yes, we can all interpret things differently but if an interpretation seems like it’s reaching, people won’t like it.
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    EtherealityEthereality Posts: 685 ★★★

    Not to mention that the implication that women are "hard-to-handle" just because they are more "difficult to learn" is biased. Why not go with the implication that women are more complex than men?

    On the flip side, if the men are "easy", why is that a good thing? Can't I argue that it would paint males out to be stupid brutes?

    It's this savior complex that has people leap to conclusions to try to "help" someone when there is nothing to "save" them from. In this case, it's the assumption that an undertone exists that implies that women are inferior when it doesn't exist (or isn't significant enough to say that it is of importance).

    But you see, the implication that women are more complicated than men could be seen as sexist too .... depending on the context and whom you ask.
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