Cap America sam wilson

Dwayne55

Am I playing him wrong? His damage seems super subpar. Over 200 hits from a 6* rank 3 to take down ROL winter soldier? That's ridiculous

magnus_xix

Nah his damage is just trash but hey at least he has good uTiLiTy

BitterSteel

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Mattstafari

Why did you take him to rank 3?

Dwayne55

magnus_xix said:

Nah his damage is just trash but hey at least he has good

BitterSteel said:

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

Eb0ny-O-M4w

He is a defender with some utility, even if it is not that relevant

magnus_xix

BitterSteel said:

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Good enough damage should be the standard for every piece of content not just for one game mode that 1% of the playerbase plays competitively

I never said having good utility was a bad thing

Dwayne55

magnus_xix said:

BitterSteel said:

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Good enough damage should be the standard for every piece of content not just for one game mode that 1% of the playerbase plays competitively

I never said having good utility was a bad thing

Exactly

BitterSteel

magnus_xix said:

BitterSteel said:

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Good enough damage should be the standard for every piece of content not just for one game mode that 1% of the playerbase plays competitively

I never said having good utility was a bad thing

Saying "but at least he has good uTiLiTy" heavily implies that's a bad thing.

Aditionally, war isn't the only place with 200-300k health pools. Use him in Cav EQ, quests with lower health pools etc. It's not a bad thing to have war champs added to the game, more than 1% of players play War to the extent where they'd rank a champ for it.

Guytennis

Remember how pathetic OG Falcon was? Just wait 3 years or so for his buff and you’ll be delighted you have him.

Skiddy212

I like him. Fun champ to use

Karuseus

He excels against champs with prowess, which RoL does not have
He can punish abilities that have low activation chance with rupture damage(if he is duped), which again RoL does not have unless you are getting struck

So why only look at hit numbers?
I mean some champs have sp that have are multi-hit you know

Dwayne55

Karuseus said:

He excels against champs with prowess, which RoL does not have
He can punish abilities that have low activation chance with rupture damage(if he is duped), which again RoL does not have unless you are getting struck

So why only look at hit numbers?
I mean some champs have sp that have are multi-hit you know

His base attacks are hitting for 500 HP. Can say what you want but like stated before that's criminally low and there are countless others that agree. You can have all the utility in the world but if it takes hundreds of hits to kill someone then no one is going to want to use him. The health pools in act 6 and beyond are just too large

BitterSteel

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

Guytennis

BitterSteel said:

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

I don’t do high tier wars. Can you explain how Sam’s utility would be an assist? What would make him useful?

Polygon

BitterSteel said:

Not every champ is supposed to be used for 500k health pools. Some, like SP2099 would take around that to do RoL fights, but dominate war meta because they have enough damage to deal with 200-300k health pools like in War.

Cap Falcon has a ton of utility, not sure why Magnus thinks that's a bad thing, and his damage is enough. It's not his main draw, and he's better for shorter fights.

Spidey has way more damage so thats a bad comparison. The rupture detonates and that sp2 hit pretty hard

BitterSteel

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

I don’t do high tier wars. Can you explain how Sam’s utility would be an assist? What would make him useful?

@Guytennis I am very hyped for Cap Falcon, and I've done a lot of theory crafting on him and thinking about where he'll be useful, so I'm sorry for this really long post but... well, you did ask...

He's a very good mutant specific counter, and a lot of his kit makes him useful for that. He is practically built to counter specifically Kitty Pryde and more generally Path 6, which is a mutant and prowess heavy path, along with Miss champions and unblockable specials.

So how does he counter these things?

Starting with Kitty specifically, he counters her in two main ways. Firstly, he doesn't crit (which is useful all over the place as well), so he doesn't give her prowess that way. Secondly, he inflicts cowardice while locked on, so that removes her prowess instantly from when you stun her. Kitty without prowess is a pretty tame cat.

Moving onto Mutants. First off, Cap has an extremely easy to access armour up buff for Havok matchups along with parrying non-contact attacks like Havok and Prof X, he can also block unblockable special attacks from mutants. His autoblock can block special attacks. How that works is 10% per armour up up to 75% chance, and increased by 25% per prowess on the opponent. Champs with a lot of prowess tend to be mutant, so against Apoc, White Mags, Bishop, Sauron, Jubilee, Prof X, Toad and any future mutants released with a lot of prowess - you have an incredible safety net. Their special attacks basically cannot hit you.

Additionally, in the way of countering special attacks (which mutants specialise in), Cap Falcon will be very tanky on his block. Firstly, the cowardice passive reduces special attack damage by 40%. Secondly, his armour will give him a nice cushion. Thirdly, when intercepting the enemy or heavy attacking he gets a block proficiency bulwark buff. This also has an additional ability of reducing Ability accuracy by -100% when hitting Cap's block. So counters bubble-shield, Apoc can't stun him through block, I think it should counter masochism in theory, Kinetic transference.

Sapped charges can help control a fight, and allow you to stay aggressive. It seems pretty easy to get to 25, since striking during locked on pauses for 5 seconds, and they have a duration of 15 seconds. Once that happens you power drain them over 15 seconds, meaning they can't get to an SP3.

As mentioned before, he doesn't crit, so champs like Mr Sinister, Kitty, Hulkbuster, Scarlet witch are countered. Along with nodes like spiked armour or terminal velocity. Nobody is immune to rupture, and very few champions or nodes have high physical resistance so it's not like Guardian where his way to get around critting can be ignored by shock immune. And they're not debuffs, so they can't be shrugged off like G2099's degens can.


So why is he so useful for path 6?

Take a look at the nodes here https://www.mcoc-guide.com/alliance-war-maps-and-nodes-buffs/

You have 4 specific fights for path 6, and 3 path 4-6 specific minis. He counters the first specific mini, but I won't include the second or third path 4-6 mini because he doesn't specifically counter those nodes. And I won't include the shared Minis either, powersnack or mixmaster.

Path Fight 1 - Combat Deja Vu Prowess, Prowess puncture.

Cap counters both of these to some extent. Combat deja vu giving the enemy prowess means you will be able to autoblock their specials with ease, there will usually be a 100% chance for you to autoblock, especially with your armour buffs. I don't *think* that his -100% AAR on block will stop the prowess puncture block penetration, but general tankiness helps here, with armour, block proficiency and cowardice.

Path Fight 2 - Aggression prowess, power focus 2

The more prowess the better, and power focus 2 allows you to fight as aggressively as you want with your sapped charges. You'll autoblock specials if they have prowesses.

Mini Fight 1 - Ebb and flow knockdown, bubble-shield, power focus 1

With your bulwark buff, Cap counters bubbleshield. Making it a pretty easy fight to deal with. Your general tankiness will help stopping the opponent using their Sp1 by holding block (most placements here are champs who you don't want to throw their SP1).

Path Fight 3 - Prowess build up Unblockable, superior specials, return policy

This is where Cap's real specific utility comes in. Generally, mutant champs are placed on this node. In fact, it is silly not to because I don't think any other champions can get prowess in their base kit other than mutants. (there may be one or two I can't think of right now, I think Proxima technically does? But that's besides the point). They have unblockable specials while they have 3 or more prowess, and the node gives them 1 automatically. So you see Kittys, Bishops, Apocs, White mags and I'm sure Saurons will be here in future.

Because there will be so many prowess' here, this will mean Cap has a pretty much eternal 100% chance to autoblock even unblockable specials when facing mutants. And the cowardice reduces special damage.

Path Fight 4 - Hard knock life, Passively special, Prowess build up Unblockable

The bulwark buff does two things here, while it's up, hard knock life disorient won't trigger and passively special (which gives the opponent prowess for every blocked hit of a special) won't give the opponent their prowess. Also, as mutants are generally placed here as well, you'll be able to block unblockables again. Though I have seen P2099 and Nick Fury placed here too - but having said that, your bulwark buff will shut them down too and they won't get their prowess.

Additionally, the boss island node with prowess allows him to autoblock specials really easily too.

The last thing he counters really well is Miss champions. His lock on prevents miss, so champs like Prof X, Ebony Maw, the new miss node in AQ boss island on the left hand side, G2099, Mysterio, (who's SP1 power drain you can parry and ignore with your bulwark buff), nodes like Tunnel Vision, missing in action, Arrogance etc are all countered.

Overall, he has a ton of utility and he will be extremely good for mutant match ups specifically in war and for any future mutants added. He has a couple of other abilities I haven't gone into, like armour ups reducing bleed ability accuracy by 25%, which *can* be used for Biohazard and caltrops, but it's not a main use. And his SP3 inflicts special lock, and makes it easier to get to 25 sapped charges, along with a precision buff. He just has a lot of uses in specific game play fights, and when you get a larger roster, that's what you want. I'm really hyped for him, and would easily R3 him because he seems like a useful and fun champ. I hope this has helped explain his uses!

Guytennis

BitterSteel said:

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

I don’t do high tier wars. Can you explain how Sam’s utility would be an assist? What would make him useful?

@Guytennis I am very hyped for Cap Falcon, and I've done a lot of theory crafting on him and thinking about where he'll be useful, so I'm sorry for this really long post but... well, you did ask...

He's a very good mutant specific counter, and a lot of his kit makes him useful for that. He is practically built to counter specifically Kitty Pryde and more generally Path 6, which is a mutant and prowess heavy path, along with Miss champions and unblockable specials.

So how does he counter these things?

Starting with Kitty specifically, he counters her in two main ways. Firstly, he doesn't crit (which is useful all over the place as well), so he doesn't give her prowess that way. Secondly, he inflicts cowardice while locked on, so that removes her prowess instantly from when you stun her. Kitty without prowess is a pretty tame cat.

Moving onto Mutants. First off, Cap has an extremely easy to access armour up buff for Havok matchups along with parrying non-contact attacks like Havok and Prof X, he can also block unblockable special attacks from mutants. His autoblock can block special attacks. How that works is 10% per armour up up to 75% chance, and increased by 25% per prowess on the opponent. Champs with a lot of prowess tend to be mutant, so against Apoc, White Mags, Bishop, Sauron, Jubilee, Prof X, Toad and any future mutants released with a lot of prowess - you have an incredible safety net. Their special attacks basically cannot hit you.

Additionally, in the way of countering special attacks (which mutants specialise in), Cap Falcon will be very tanky on his block. Firstly, the cowardice passive reduces special attack damage by 40%. Secondly, his armour will give him a nice cushion. Thirdly, when intercepting the enemy or heavy attacking he gets a block proficiency bulwark buff. This also has an additional ability of reducing Ability accuracy by -100% when hitting Cap's block. So counters bubble-shield, Apoc can't stun him through block, I think it should counter masochism in theory, Kinetic transference.

Sapped charges can help control a fight, and allow you to stay aggressive. It seems pretty easy to get to 25, since striking during locked on pauses for 5 seconds, and they have a duration of 15 seconds. Once that happens you power drain them over 15 seconds, meaning they can't get to an SP3.

As mentioned before, he doesn't crit, so champs like Mr Sinister, Kitty, Hulkbuster, Scarlet witch are countered. Along with nodes like spiked armour or terminal velocity. Nobody is immune to rupture, and very few champions or nodes have high physical resistance so it's not like Guardian where his way to get around critting can be ignored by shock immune. And they're not debuffs, so they can't be shrugged off like G2099's degens can.


So why is he so useful for path 6?

Take a look at the nodes here https://www.mcoc-guide.com/alliance-war-maps-and-nodes-buffs/

You have 4 specific fights for path 6, and 3 path 4-6 specific minis. He counters the first specific mini, but I won't include the second or third path 4-6 mini because he doesn't specifically counter those nodes. And I won't include the shared Minis either, powersnack or mixmaster.

Path Fight 1 - Combat Deja Vu Prowess, Prowess puncture.

Cap counters both of these to some extent. Combat deja vu giving the enemy prowess means you will be able to autoblock their specials with ease, there will usually be a 100% chance for you to autoblock, especially with your armour buffs. I don't *think* that his -100% AAR on block will stop the prowess puncture block penetration, but general tankiness helps here, with armour, block proficiency and cowardice.

Path Fight 2 - Aggression prowess, power focus 2

The more prowess the better, and power focus 2 allows you to fight as aggressively as you want with your sapped charges. You'll autoblock specials if they have prowesses.

Mini Fight 1 - Ebb and flow knockdown, bubble-shield, power focus 1

With your bulwark buff, Cap counters bubbleshield. Making it a pretty easy fight to deal with. Your general tankiness will help stopping the opponent using their Sp1 by holding block (most placements here are champs who you don't want to throw their SP1).

Path Fight 3 - Prowess build up Unblockable, superior specials, return policy

This is where Cap's real specific utility comes in. Generally, mutant champs are placed on this node. In fact, it is silly not to because I don't think any other champions can get prowess in their base kit other than mutants. (there may be one or two I can't think of right now, I think Proxima technically does? But that's besides the point). They have unblockable specials while they have 3 or more prowess, and the node gives them 1 automatically. So you see Kittys, Bishops, Apocs, White mags and I'm sure Saurons will be here in future.

Because there will be so many prowess' here, this will mean Cap has a pretty much eternal 100% chance to autoblock even unblockable specials when facing mutants. And the cowardice reduces special damage.

Path Fight 4 - Hard knock life, Passively special, Prowess build up Unblockable

The bulwark buff does two things here, while it's up, hard knock life disorient won't trigger and passively special (which gives the opponent prowess for every blocked hit of a special) won't give the opponent their prowess. Also, as mutants are generally placed here as well, you'll be able to block unblockables again. Though I have seen P2099 and Nick Fury placed here too - but having said that, your bulwark buff will shut them down too and they won't get their prowess.

Additionally, the boss island node with prowess allows him to autoblock specials really easily too.

The last thing he counters really well is Miss champions. His lock on prevents miss, so champs like Prof X, Ebony Maw, the new miss node in AQ boss island on the left hand side, G2099, Mysterio, (who's SP1 power drain you can parry and ignore with your bulwark buff), nodes like Tunnel Vision, missing in action, Arrogance etc are all countered.

Overall, he has a ton of utility and he will be extremely good for mutant match ups specifically in war and for any future mutants added. He has a couple of other abilities I haven't gone into, like armour ups reducing bleed ability accuracy by 25%, which *can* be used for Biohazard and caltrops, but it's not a main use. And his SP3 inflicts special lock, and makes it easier to get to 25 sapped charges, along with a precision buff. He just has a lot of uses in specific game play fights, and when you get a larger roster, that's what you want. I'm really hyped for him, and would easily R3 him because he seems like a useful and fun champ. I hope this has helped explain his uses!

Makes sense.

Lpoo

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

I don’t do high tier wars. Can you explain how Sam’s utility would be an assist? What would make him useful?

@Guytennis I am very hyped for Cap Falcon, and I've done a lot of theory crafting on him and thinking about where he'll be useful, so I'm sorry for this really long post but... well, you did ask...

He's a very good mutant specific counter, and a lot of his kit makes him useful for that. He is practically built to counter specifically Kitty Pryde and more generally Path 6, which is a mutant and prowess heavy path, along with Miss champions and unblockable specials.

So how does he counter these things?

Starting with Kitty specifically, he counters her in two main ways. Firstly, he doesn't crit (which is useful all over the place as well), so he doesn't give her prowess that way. Secondly, he inflicts cowardice while locked on, so that removes her prowess instantly from when you stun her. Kitty without prowess is a pretty tame cat.

Moving onto Mutants. First off, Cap has an extremely easy to access armour up buff for Havok matchups along with parrying non-contact attacks like Havok and Prof X, he can also block unblockable special attacks from mutants. His autoblock can block special attacks. How that works is 10% per armour up up to 75% chance, and increased by 25% per prowess on the opponent. Champs with a lot of prowess tend to be mutant, so against Apoc, White Mags, Bishop, Sauron, Jubilee, Prof X, Toad and any future mutants released with a lot of prowess - you have an incredible safety net. Their special attacks basically cannot hit you.

Additionally, in the way of countering special attacks (which mutants specialise in), Cap Falcon will be very tanky on his block. Firstly, the cowardice passive reduces special attack damage by 40%. Secondly, his armour will give him a nice cushion. Thirdly, when intercepting the enemy or heavy attacking he gets a block proficiency bulwark buff. This also has an additional ability of reducing Ability accuracy by -100% when hitting Cap's block. So counters bubble-shield, Apoc can't stun him through block, I think it should counter masochism in theory, Kinetic transference.

Sapped charges can help control a fight, and allow you to stay aggressive. It seems pretty easy to get to 25, since striking during locked on pauses for 5 seconds, and they have a duration of 15 seconds. Once that happens you power drain them over 15 seconds, meaning they can't get to an SP3.

As mentioned before, he doesn't crit, so champs like Mr Sinister, Kitty, Hulkbuster, Scarlet witch are countered. Along with nodes like spiked armour or terminal velocity. Nobody is immune to rupture, and very few champions or nodes have high physical resistance so it's not like Guardian where his way to get around critting can be ignored by shock immune. And they're not debuffs, so they can't be shrugged off like G2099's degens can.


So why is he so useful for path 6?

Take a look at the nodes here https://www.mcoc-guide.com/alliance-war-maps-and-nodes-buffs/

You have 4 specific fights for path 6, and 3 path 4-6 specific minis. He counters the first specific mini, but I won't include the second or third path 4-6 mini because he doesn't specifically counter those nodes. And I won't include the shared Minis either, powersnack or mixmaster.

Path Fight 1 - Combat Deja Vu Prowess, Prowess puncture.

Cap counters both of these to some extent. Combat deja vu giving the enemy prowess means you will be able to autoblock their specials with ease, there will usually be a 100% chance for you to autoblock, especially with your armour buffs. I don't *think* that his -100% AAR on block will stop the prowess puncture block penetration, but general tankiness helps here, with armour, block proficiency and cowardice.

Path Fight 2 - Aggression prowess, power focus 2

The more prowess the better, and power focus 2 allows you to fight as aggressively as you want with your sapped charges. You'll autoblock specials if they have prowesses.

Mini Fight 1 - Ebb and flow knockdown, bubble-shield, power focus 1

With your bulwark buff, Cap counters bubbleshield. Making it a pretty easy fight to deal with. Your general tankiness will help stopping the opponent using their Sp1 by holding block (most placements here are champs who you don't want to throw their SP1).

Path Fight 3 - Prowess build up Unblockable, superior specials, return policy

This is where Cap's real specific utility comes in. Generally, mutant champs are placed on this node. In fact, it is silly not to because I don't think any other champions can get prowess in their base kit other than mutants. (there may be one or two I can't think of right now, I think Proxima technically does? But that's besides the point). They have unblockable specials while they have 3 or more prowess, and the node gives them 1 automatically. So you see Kittys, Bishops, Apocs, White mags and I'm sure Saurons will be here in future.

Because there will be so many prowess' here, this will mean Cap has a pretty much eternal 100% chance to autoblock even unblockable specials when facing mutants. And the cowardice reduces special damage.

Path Fight 4 - Hard knock life, Passively special, Prowess build up Unblockable

The bulwark buff does two things here, while it's up, hard knock life disorient won't trigger and passively special (which gives the opponent prowess for every blocked hit of a special) won't give the opponent their prowess. Also, as mutants are generally placed here as well, you'll be able to block unblockables again. Though I have seen P2099 and Nick Fury placed here too - but having said that, your bulwark buff will shut them down too and they won't get their prowess.

Additionally, the boss island node with prowess allows him to autoblock specials really easily too.

The last thing he counters really well is Miss champions. His lock on prevents miss, so champs like Prof X, Ebony Maw, the new miss node in AQ boss island on the left hand side, G2099, Mysterio, (who's SP1 power drain you can parry and ignore with your bulwark buff), nodes like Tunnel Vision, missing in action, Arrogance etc are all countered.

Overall, he has a ton of utility and he will be extremely good for mutant match ups specifically in war and for any future mutants added. He has a couple of other abilities I haven't gone into, like armour ups reducing bleed ability accuracy by 25%, which *can* be used for Biohazard and caltrops, but it's not a main use. And his SP3 inflicts special lock, and makes it easier to get to 25 sapped charges, along with a precision buff. He just has a lot of uses in specific game play fights, and when you get a larger roster, that's what you want. I'm really hyped for him, and would easily R3 him because he seems like a useful and fun champ. I hope this has helped explain his uses!

Makes sense.

Probably throw an agree next time, that’s a big reply

Tony_5tank

He’s a creeper. When he releases in the generic pool and more people pull him his worth will show. Especially as most end game content gives you certain little buffs, it’ll make his damage higher than his current state imo.

Magrailothos

Tony_5tank said:

He’s a creeper. When he releases in the generic pool and more people pull him his worth will show. Especially as most end game content gives you certain little buffs, it’ll make his damage higher than his current state imo.

Also you have to watch out for little red numbers, instead of big yellow ones. People find it harder to notice all those little Ruptures unless they're looking out for them.

His SP2 instant Ruptures can do some pretty decent damage, and take effect through block when he's Locked On.

Nice write-up @BitterSteel (as always) 🙂

Guytennis

Lpoo said:

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Guytennis said:

BitterSteel said:

Dwayne55 said:

Not even close. I have spidey99 at rank 3 as well and he'd only take half that. Hits from a 6* rank 3 shouldn't be doing 500 and 600 damage idc who they are. Sure the utility is cool and all but it doesn't make up for that weakness

I've tested Spidey in RoL and he took down Cap Marvel in 160 hits going for SP3, Heavy, Sp1 then Sp2 spam. Debuffs were up the whole fight. Not quite half the hits of Cap Falcon.

Again, these are not champions designed for 500k health pools, so judging them on that isn't fair. They don't have rotations that require 80 hits of build up and then big damage. They have rotations that are designed for 1 Sp3 then an Sp2 or two at maximum. It's like judging Proxima unramped or She Hulk in a short fight. Judging a champion out of their element, in content they aren't designed for isn't the full picture.

Why don't you see how his performance is against a 200k-300k health pool where he is intended? Because he'd clearly take a lot less hits, and that is what you can expect in war.

In war, big damage obviously is one way to manage fights. But there's a reason you don't see Hela brought everywhere, because utility is king. You want to survive the fights, and sometimes what helps you survive is big damage, but most of the time it's countering a fight with utility even if it means you take an extra minute. Cap falcon is bursting with useful utility for war, give him a try from that perspective, rather than "I need to do big damage". View it from the point of view that Cap's utility is going to help you survive the fight.

I can't persuade you to like him, and you're not wrong for not liking him. But complaining that a champion doesn't do RoL quickly is probably one of the worst judges of a champion we see on the forum. Look at Quake, Void, BWCV, Thing (no synergy), Magik or Doc Oc. How fast are those champions doing RoL? Maybe some faster than Cap Falcon, some slower. But all bring incredible utility to war and that's why they are brought on teams. Because judging how fast a champion defeats WS in RoL is like glaring at a pixel on the screen and wondering why it doesn't seem like the TV show you put on

I don’t do high tier wars. Can you explain how Sam’s utility would be an assist? What would make him useful?

@Guytennis I am very hyped for Cap Falcon, and I've done a lot of theory crafting on him and thinking about where he'll be useful, so I'm sorry for this really long post but... well, you did ask...

He's a very good mutant specific counter, and a lot of his kit makes him useful for that. He is practically built to counter specifically Kitty Pryde and more generally Path 6, which is a mutant and prowess heavy path, along with Miss champions and unblockable specials.

So how does he counter these things?

Starting with Kitty specifically, he counters her in two main ways. Firstly, he doesn't crit (which is useful all over the place as well), so he doesn't give her prowess that way. Secondly, he inflicts cowardice while locked on, so that removes her prowess instantly from when you stun her. Kitty without prowess is a pretty tame cat.

Moving onto Mutants. First off, Cap has an extremely easy to access armour up buff for Havok matchups along with parrying non-contact attacks like Havok and Prof X, he can also block unblockable special attacks from mutants. His autoblock can block special attacks. How that works is 10% per armour up up to 75% chance, and increased by 25% per prowess on the opponent. Champs with a lot of prowess tend to be mutant, so against Apoc, White Mags, Bishop, Sauron, Jubilee, Prof X, Toad and any future mutants released with a lot of prowess - you have an incredible safety net. Their special attacks basically cannot hit you.

Additionally, in the way of countering special attacks (which mutants specialise in), Cap Falcon will be very tanky on his block. Firstly, the cowardice passive reduces special attack damage by 40%. Secondly, his armour will give him a nice cushion. Thirdly, when intercepting the enemy or heavy attacking he gets a block proficiency bulwark buff. This also has an additional ability of reducing Ability accuracy by -100% when hitting Cap's block. So counters bubble-shield, Apoc can't stun him through block, I think it should counter masochism in theory, Kinetic transference.

Sapped charges can help control a fight, and allow you to stay aggressive. It seems pretty easy to get to 25, since striking during locked on pauses for 5 seconds, and they have a duration of 15 seconds. Once that happens you power drain them over 15 seconds, meaning they can't get to an SP3.

As mentioned before, he doesn't crit, so champs like Mr Sinister, Kitty, Hulkbuster, Scarlet witch are countered. Along with nodes like spiked armour or terminal velocity. Nobody is immune to rupture, and very few champions or nodes have high physical resistance so it's not like Guardian where his way to get around critting can be ignored by shock immune. And they're not debuffs, so they can't be shrugged off like G2099's degens can.


So why is he so useful for path 6?

Take a look at the nodes here https://www.mcoc-guide.com/alliance-war-maps-and-nodes-buffs/

You have 4 specific fights for path 6, and 3 path 4-6 specific minis. He counters the first specific mini, but I won't include the second or third path 4-6 mini because he doesn't specifically counter those nodes. And I won't include the shared Minis either, powersnack or mixmaster.

Path Fight 1 - Combat Deja Vu Prowess, Prowess puncture.

Cap counters both of these to some extent. Combat deja vu giving the enemy prowess means you will be able to autoblock their specials with ease, there will usually be a 100% chance for you to autoblock, especially with your armour buffs. I don't *think* that his -100% AAR on block will stop the prowess puncture block penetration, but general tankiness helps here, with armour, block proficiency and cowardice.

Path Fight 2 - Aggression prowess, power focus 2

The more prowess the better, and power focus 2 allows you to fight as aggressively as you want with your sapped charges. You'll autoblock specials if they have prowesses.

Mini Fight 1 - Ebb and flow knockdown, bubble-shield, power focus 1

With your bulwark buff, Cap counters bubbleshield. Making it a pretty easy fight to deal with. Your general tankiness will help stopping the opponent using their Sp1 by holding block (most placements here are champs who you don't want to throw their SP1).

Path Fight 3 - Prowess build up Unblockable, superior specials, return policy

This is where Cap's real specific utility comes in. Generally, mutant champs are placed on this node. In fact, it is silly not to because I don't think any other champions can get prowess in their base kit other than mutants. (there may be one or two I can't think of right now, I think Proxima technically does? But that's besides the point). They have unblockable specials while they have 3 or more prowess, and the node gives them 1 automatically. So you see Kittys, Bishops, Apocs, White mags and I'm sure Saurons will be here in future.

Because there will be so many prowess' here, this will mean Cap has a pretty much eternal 100% chance to autoblock even unblockable specials when facing mutants. And the cowardice reduces special damage.

Path Fight 4 - Hard knock life, Passively special, Prowess build up Unblockable

The bulwark buff does two things here, while it's up, hard knock life disorient won't trigger and passively special (which gives the opponent prowess for every blocked hit of a special) won't give the opponent their prowess. Also, as mutants are generally placed here as well, you'll be able to block unblockables again. Though I have seen P2099 and Nick Fury placed here too - but having said that, your bulwark buff will shut them down too and they won't get their prowess.

Additionally, the boss island node with prowess allows him to autoblock specials really easily too.

The last thing he counters really well is Miss champions. His lock on prevents miss, so champs like Prof X, Ebony Maw, the new miss node in AQ boss island on the left hand side, G2099, Mysterio, (who's SP1 power drain you can parry and ignore with your bulwark buff), nodes like Tunnel Vision, missing in action, Arrogance etc are all countered.

Overall, he has a ton of utility and he will be extremely good for mutant match ups specifically in war and for any future mutants added. He has a couple of other abilities I haven't gone into, like armour ups reducing bleed ability accuracy by 25%, which *can* be used for Biohazard and caltrops, but it's not a main use. And his SP3 inflicts special lock, and makes it easier to get to 25 sapped charges, along with a precision buff. He just has a lot of uses in specific game play fights, and when you get a larger roster, that's what you want. I'm really hyped for him, and would easily R3 him because he seems like a useful and fun champ. I hope this has helped explain his uses!

Makes sense.

Probably throw an agree next time, that’s a big reply

I thought I gave him an ‘awesome’.