WOW. Bold of you to put hulkling, a brand new champ that no one really has experience with, in the same category as Herc, CGR, Hyperion among others.
Because he is as good as them!
I can confirm as a 5* r5 (awakened) Hulkling 'owner' that he is at least good enough to be included in Cosmic top tier. Period.
Any champ on the new release program can’t be safely ranked until the build is locked
I’d say that unless you see something wildly out of the norm, I wouldn’t be worried about seeing that champion get nerfed. Hulkling is really good, but I don’t see anything in his kit that’s truly game breaking. He’s also the reason we’re seeing more Mystics with neutralize, because his kit seems to punish nullification. He’s supposed to be a meta-definer.
Let's not over-dramatise his importance there. They've introduced several other champions immune to Nullify, not just Hulkling.
Thing, Annihilus, Civil Warrior, Omega Sentinel, Sam Wilson (partially), Overseer and Mister Negative all precede Hulkling, and the last two are much better examples of Punishing Nullify.
It's how the game evolves: introduce an ability. Develop new champs with a counter for it. Develop new champs who counter or bypass the first counter. And so on.
Hulkling is just one of the crowd with a partial counter for Nullify. Meta-defining remains to be seen.
Annihilus isn’t nullify immune at all? His kit is shut down hard by it. I only nitpick because Hulkling is the first Cosmic champion to punish nullification. Yeah, Mr. Negative and Overseer punish it, but they’re Science champs. You aren’t going to be bringing Mystic nullifiers into those fights anyway.
Hulkling is meta-defining in that usually, when you see a Cosmic defender you can just throw Doom or Claire or Diablo at them and call it a day. Hulkling will embarrass you and maybe give you a swirly if you try that on him. He requires a different uniquely Mystic utility to shut down, being neutralize (fate seal or buff immunity might still work? Not sure). Civil Warrior can be armor broken/shattered, same with Sam Wilson and Omega Sentinel. That’s a uniquely Cosmic ability countering these Tech champs, but not a super common one. Hulkling will have a similar relationship with Mystics. Requiring non-standard responses to a defender is, by definition, meta-altering. And Kabam is rolling out more champs with the ability to neutralize as a result.
I get what you're saying. And I'm only partly disagreeing.
But I think Hulking is just part of a meta shift; not (yet) the defining character of it. And that suggesting that Hulking will define a new era seems a bit precipitous, when his crystals have been out less than a week.
Kabam have been developing mystics who don't rely on Nullify/Stagger for years before designing Hulkling: Mephisto has been able to prevent buffs happening since 2017 Tigra came out with Neutralise in May 2020, two years ago. Mordo punishes buffs without removing them So does Dragon Man So does Sasquatch So does America Chavez So can Morningstar Loki steals them Mojo will make Hulkling's buffs expire in the blink of an eye, and will bypass the Passive replacement
And whilst you'll have to work around Hulkling's abilities to fight him with Claire, I doubt he'll give her too much trouble once she's in Curse of Plague mode, and throws Buff Immunity on him.
Possibly, with the benefit of hindsight, I'll be happy to concede that Hulking has defined a new era in a few months time. Till then, I'll be steamrolling him with Mojo, personally.
WOW. Bold of you to put hulkling, a brand new champ that no one really has experience with, in the same category as Herc, CGR, Hyperion among others.
Because he is as good as them!
I can confirm as a 5* r5 (awakened) Hulkling 'owner' that he is at least good enough to be included in Cosmic top tier. Period.
Any champ on the new release program can’t be safely ranked until the build is locked
I’d say that unless you see something wildly out of the norm, I wouldn’t be worried about seeing that champion get nerfed. Hulkling is really good, but I don’t see anything in his kit that’s truly game breaking. He’s also the reason we’re seeing more Mystics with neutralize, because his kit seems to punish nullification. He’s supposed to be a meta-definer.
Let's not over-dramatise his importance there. They've introduced several other champions immune to Nullify, not just Hulkling.
Thing, Annihilus, Civil Warrior, Omega Sentinel, Sam Wilson (partially), Overseer and Mister Negative all precede Hulkling, and the last two are much better examples of Punishing Nullify.
It's how the game evolves: introduce an ability. Develop new champs with a counter for it. Develop new champs who counter or bypass the first counter. And so on.
Hulkling is just one of the crowd with a partial counter for Nullify. Meta-defining remains to be seen.
Annihilus isn’t nullify immune at all? His kit is shut down hard by it. I only nitpick because Hulkling is the first Cosmic champion to punish nullification. Yeah, Mr. Negative and Overseer punish it, but they’re Science champs. You aren’t going to be bringing Mystic nullifiers into those fights anyway.
Hulkling is meta-defining in that usually, when you see a Cosmic defender you can just throw Doom or Claire or Diablo at them and call it a day. Hulkling will embarrass you and maybe give you a swirly if you try that on him. He requires a different uniquely Mystic utility to shut down, being neutralize (fate seal or buff immunity might still work? Not sure). Civil Warrior can be armor broken/shattered, same with Sam Wilson and Omega Sentinel. That’s a uniquely Cosmic ability countering these Tech champs, but not a super common one. Hulkling will have a similar relationship with Mystics. Requiring non-standard responses to a defender is, by definition, meta-altering. And Kabam is rolling out more champs with the ability to neutralize as a result.
I get what you're saying. And I'm only partly disagreeing.
But I think Hulking is just part of a meta shift; not (yet) the defining character of it. And that suggesting that Hulking will define a new era seems a bit precipitous, when his crystals have been out less than a week.
Kabam have been developing mystics who don't rely on Nullify/Stagger for years before designing Hulkling: Mephisto has been able to prevent buffs happening since 2017 Tigra came out with Neutralise in May 2020, two years ago. Mordo punishes buffs without removing them So does Dragon Man So does Sasquatch So does America Chavez So can Morningstar Loki steals them Mojo will make Hulkling's buffs expire in the blink of an eye, and will bypass the Passive replacement
And whilst you'll have to work around Hulkling's abilities to fight him with Claire, I doubt he'll give her too much trouble once she's in Curse of Plague mode, and throws Buff Immunity on him.
Possibly, with the benefit of hindsight, I'll be happy to concede that Hulking has defined a new era in a few months time. Till then, I'll be steamrolling him with Mojo, personally.
Mojo is definitely a good shout, I’ve always liked how he plays and his version of buff control.
Dragon Man can work because of his slow off the sp1, but Sasquatch, America, and Morningstar will all have to dance around Hulkling’s unstoppable ability in a very uncomfortable way.
I haven’t done any fights against Hulkling yet, so I don’t know how other interactions would go. If he was already unstoppable when you apply Claire’s buff immunity (or any fate seal effect, for that matter), would that trigger the passive? I don’t know the answer to that. But I’d concede meta-defining wasn’t the best wording and your phrasing of a sign of a shift is probably more apt.
WOW. Bold of you to put hulkling, a brand new champ that no one really has experience with, in the same category as Herc, CGR, Hyperion among others.
Because he is as good as them!
I can confirm as a 5* r5 (awakened) Hulkling 'owner' that he is at least good enough to be included in Cosmic top tier. Period.
Any champ on the new release program can’t be safely ranked until the build is locked
I’d say that unless you see something wildly out of the norm, I wouldn’t be worried about seeing that champion get nerfed. Hulkling is really good, but I don’t see anything in his kit that’s truly game breaking. He’s also the reason we’re seeing more Mystics with neutralize, because his kit seems to punish nullification. He’s supposed to be a meta-definer.
Let's not over-dramatise his importance there. They've introduced several other champions immune to Nullify, not just Hulkling.
Thing, Annihilus, Civil Warrior, Omega Sentinel, Sam Wilson (partially), Overseer and Mister Negative all precede Hulkling, and the last two are much better examples of Punishing Nullify.
It's how the game evolves: introduce an ability. Develop new champs with a counter for it. Develop new champs who counter or bypass the first counter. And so on.
Hulkling is just one of the crowd with a partial counter for Nullify. Meta-defining remains to be seen.
Annihilus isn’t nullify immune at all? His kit is shut down hard by it. I only nitpick because Hulkling is the first Cosmic champion to punish nullification. Yeah, Mr. Negative and Overseer punish it, but they’re Science champs. You aren’t going to be bringing Mystic nullifiers into those fights anyway.
Hulkling is meta-defining in that usually, when you see a Cosmic defender you can just throw Doom or Claire or Diablo at them and call it a day. Hulkling will embarrass you and maybe give you a swirly if you try that on him. He requires a different uniquely Mystic utility to shut down, being neutralize (fate seal or buff immunity might still work? Not sure). Civil Warrior can be armor broken/shattered, same with Sam Wilson and Omega Sentinel. That’s a uniquely Cosmic ability countering these Tech champs, but not a super common one. Hulkling will have a similar relationship with Mystics. Requiring non-standard responses to a defender is, by definition, meta-altering. And Kabam is rolling out more champs with the ability to neutralize as a result.
I get what you're saying. And I'm only partly disagreeing.
But I think Hulking is just part of a meta shift; not (yet) the defining character of it. And that suggesting that Hulking will define a new era seems a bit precipitous, when his crystals have been out less than a week.
Kabam have been developing mystics who don't rely on Nullify/Stagger for years before designing Hulkling: Mephisto has been able to prevent buffs happening since 2017 Tigra came out with Neutralise in May 2020, two years ago. Mordo punishes buffs without removing them So does Dragon Man So does Sasquatch So does America Chavez So can Morningstar Loki steals them Mojo will make Hulkling's buffs expire in the blink of an eye, and will bypass the Passive replacement
And whilst you'll have to work around Hulkling's abilities to fight him with Claire, I doubt he'll give her too much trouble once she's in Curse of Plague mode, and throws Buff Immunity on him.
Possibly, with the benefit of hindsight, I'll be happy to concede that Hulking has defined a new era in a few months time. Till then, I'll be steamrolling him with Mojo, personally.
Mojo is definitely a good shout, I’ve always liked how he plays and his version of buff control.
Dragon Man can work because of his slow off the sp1, but Sasquatch, America, and Morningstar will all have to dance around Hulkling’s unstoppable ability in a very uncomfortable way.
I haven’t done any fights against Hulkling yet, so I don’t know how other interactions would go. If he was already unstoppable when you apply Claire’s buff immunity (or any fate seal effect, for that matter), would that trigger the passive? I don’t know the answer to that. But I’d concede meta-defining wasn’t the best wording and your phrasing of a sign of a shift is probably more apt.
Did we just have a reasonable discussion on the forums, where we came to a compromise?
Shhh. Don't tell anyone 😉
----
Also: your opinion really made me look hard at him, where I'd only really glanced before. You're very right, he looks very well put together.
WOW. Bold of you to put hulkling, a brand new champ that no one really has experience with, in the same category as Herc, CGR, Hyperion among others.
Because he is as good as them!
I can confirm as a 5* r5 (awakened) Hulkling 'owner' that he is at least good enough to be included in Cosmic top tier. Period.
Any champ on the new release program can’t be safely ranked until the build is locked
I’d say that unless you see something wildly out of the norm, I wouldn’t be worried about seeing that champion get nerfed. Hulkling is really good, but I don’t see anything in his kit that’s truly game breaking. He’s also the reason we’re seeing more Mystics with neutralize, because his kit seems to punish nullification. He’s supposed to be a meta-definer.
Let's not over-dramatise his importance there. They've introduced several other champions immune to Nullify, not just Hulkling.
Thing, Annihilus, Civil Warrior, Omega Sentinel, Sam Wilson (partially), Overseer and Mister Negative all precede Hulkling, and the last two are much better examples of Punishing Nullify.
It's how the game evolves: introduce an ability. Develop new champs with a counter for it. Develop new champs who counter or bypass the first counter. And so on.
Hulkling is just one of the crowd with a partial counter for Nullify. Meta-defining remains to be seen.
Annihilus isn’t nullify immune at all? His kit is shut down hard by it. I only nitpick because Hulkling is the first Cosmic champion to punish nullification. Yeah, Mr. Negative and Overseer punish it, but they’re Science champs. You aren’t going to be bringing Mystic nullifiers into those fights anyway.
Hulkling is meta-defining in that usually, when you see a Cosmic defender you can just throw Doom or Claire or Diablo at them and call it a day. Hulkling will embarrass you and maybe give you a swirly if you try that on him. He requires a different uniquely Mystic utility to shut down, being neutralize (fate seal or buff immunity might still work? Not sure). Civil Warrior can be armor broken/shattered, same with Sam Wilson and Omega Sentinel. That’s a uniquely Cosmic ability countering these Tech champs, but not a super common one. Hulkling will have a similar relationship with Mystics. Requiring non-standard responses to a defender is, by definition, meta-altering. And Kabam is rolling out more champs with the ability to neutralize as a result.
I get what you're saying. And I'm only partly disagreeing.
But I think Hulking is just part of a meta shift; not (yet) the defining character of it. And that suggesting that Hulking will define a new era seems a bit precipitous, when his crystals have been out less than a week.
Kabam have been developing mystics who don't rely on Nullify/Stagger for years before designing Hulkling: Mephisto has been able to prevent buffs happening since 2017 Tigra came out with Neutralise in May 2020, two years ago. Mordo punishes buffs without removing them So does Dragon Man So does Sasquatch So does America Chavez So can Morningstar Loki steals them Mojo will make Hulkling's buffs expire in the blink of an eye, and will bypass the Passive replacement
And whilst you'll have to work around Hulkling's abilities to fight him with Claire, I doubt he'll give her too much trouble once she's in Curse of Plague mode, and throws Buff Immunity on him.
Possibly, with the benefit of hindsight, I'll be happy to concede that Hulking has defined a new era in a few months time. Till then, I'll be steamrolling him with Mojo, personally.
Mojo is definitely a good shout, I’ve always liked how he plays and his version of buff control.
Dragon Man can work because of his slow off the sp1, but Sasquatch, America, and Morningstar will all have to dance around Hulkling’s unstoppable ability in a very uncomfortable way.
I haven’t done any fights against Hulkling yet, so I don’t know how other interactions would go. If he was already unstoppable when you apply Claire’s buff immunity (or any fate seal effect, for that matter), would that trigger the passive? I don’t know the answer to that. But I’d concede meta-defining wasn’t the best wording and your phrasing of a sign of a shift is probably more apt.
Did we just have a reasonable discussion on the forums, where we came to a compromise?
Shhh. Don't tell anyone 😉
----
Also: your opinion really made me look hard at him, where I'd only really glanced before. You're very right, he looks very well put together.
That's awesome. Good job - both of you!
For what it's worth - I used R2 Sym Supreme on CAV EQ hulkling and he melted him. Yeah, he would go unblockable (never went unstoppable for me?) at times, but honestly, both the Sp1 and Sp2 are easy to evade and then you just fight him like he's stun immune with more intercepting. Solo'd him every time. Wish I would have tried mojo now too, but was going for what worked well and just kept doing it.
Comments
But I think Hulking is just part of a meta shift; not (yet) the defining character of it. And that suggesting that Hulking will define a new era seems a bit precipitous, when his crystals have been out less than a week.
Kabam have been developing mystics who don't rely on Nullify/Stagger for years before designing Hulkling:
Mephisto has been able to prevent buffs happening since 2017
Tigra came out with Neutralise in May 2020, two years ago.
Mordo punishes buffs without removing them
So does Dragon Man
So does Sasquatch
So does America Chavez
So can Morningstar
Loki steals them
Mojo will make Hulkling's buffs expire in the blink of an eye, and will bypass the Passive replacement
And whilst you'll have to work around Hulkling's abilities to fight him with Claire, I doubt he'll give her too much trouble once she's in Curse of Plague mode, and throws Buff Immunity on him.
Possibly, with the benefit of hindsight, I'll be happy to concede that Hulking has defined a new era in a few months time. Till then, I'll be steamrolling him with Mojo, personally.
Dragon Man can work because of his slow off the sp1, but Sasquatch, America, and Morningstar will all have to dance around Hulkling’s unstoppable ability in a very uncomfortable way.
I haven’t done any fights against Hulkling yet, so I don’t know how other interactions would go. If he was already unstoppable when you apply Claire’s buff immunity (or any fate seal effect, for that matter), would that trigger the passive? I don’t know the answer to that. But I’d concede meta-defining wasn’t the best wording and your phrasing of a sign of a shift is probably more apt.
Shhh. Don't tell anyone 😉
----
Also: your opinion really made me look hard at him, where I'd only really glanced before. You're very right, he looks very well put together.
For what it's worth - I used R2 Sym Supreme on CAV EQ hulkling and he melted him. Yeah, he would go unblockable (never went unstoppable for me?) at times, but honestly, both the Sp1 and Sp2 are easy to evade and then you just fight him like he's stun immune with more intercepting. Solo'd him every time. Wish I would have tried mojo now too, but was going for what worked well and just kept doing it.