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What's the deal with Doctor Octopus's signature ability?

Sean_WhoSean_Who Posts: 618 ★★★
I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

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  • Options
    Sean_WhoSean_Who Posts: 618 ★★★
    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
  • Options
    DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,804 ★★★★★
    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,609 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
    I think that's exactly the issue, Dr Zola.

    "power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained"

    Well, say you're fighting Thor Ragnarok as he triggers Boon of the Gods from nothing: You Power Lock him, and prevent him gaining a full three bars of power. That's obviously useful.

    But when it comes to stealing the Power for yourself, Dr Octopus will only steal 8% of Max Power, or 1/4 of a Bar. That's about the same as he'd usually gain from landing a Heavy Attack.

    It's nice in theory; but fairly trivial in practice.

    Life Steal is slightly better - at Sig 20 you gain 18% of any health gain you've prevented. If the opponent has access to a heavy burst of regen, it could easily be a couple of thousand health/tick, which would equate to around 350/tick when Stolen by Doc. If you can get it right, that should at least be noticeable; if not game-changing.

    A bit of me wants to say that Doc's Sig could easily be fixed by a bit of numbers tweaking in the buff program. But it's looking more and more like that's not the kind of thing we can be confident will happen...
  • Options
    DrZolaDrZola Posts: 8,804 ★★★★★

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
    I think that's exactly the issue, Dr Zola.

    "power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained"

    Well, say you're fighting Thor Ragnarok as he triggers Boon of the Gods from nothing: You Power Lock him, and prevent him gaining a full three bars of power. That's obviously useful.

    But when it comes to stealing the Power for yourself, Dr Octopus will only steal 8% of Max Power, or 1/4 of a Bar. That's about the same as he'd usually gain from landing a Heavy Attack.

    It's nice in theory; but fairly trivial in practice.

    Life Steal is slightly better - at Sig 20 you gain 18% of any health gain you've prevented. If the opponent has access to a heavy burst of regen, it could easily be a couple of thousand health/tick, which would equate to around 350/tick when Stolen by Doc. If you can get it right, that should at least be noticeable; if not game-changing.

    A bit of me wants to say that Doc's Sig could easily be fixed by a bit of numbers tweaking in the buff program. But it's looking more and more like that's not the kind of thing we can be confident will happen...
    Yes—I think I’ve seen videos of players using Ock very well, but it also requires a ton of skill and lucky timing. There are others with far more impressive capabilities, which is why I’ve moved on for the most part.

    Dr. Zola
  • Options
    Denslo500Denslo500 Posts: 905 ★★★
    He is punished by a passive AI. His research categories drop off over time.

    Hulk Ragnarok is similar. They are bad champs for passive AI.

    Unfortunately, Kabam has the AI adjust for your champ and will passive out on those champs.
    (If in doubt, see how fast specials get thrown when you use a good power control champ like vision or doom)
  • Options
    Sean_WhoSean_Who Posts: 618 ★★★

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
    I think that's exactly the issue, Dr Zola.

    "power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained"

    Well, say you're fighting Thor Ragnarok as he triggers Boon of the Gods from nothing: You Power Lock him, and prevent him gaining a full three bars of power. That's obviously useful.

    But when it comes to stealing the Power for yourself, Dr Octopus will only steal 8% of Max Power, or 1/4 of a Bar. That's about the same as he'd usually gain from landing a Heavy Attack.

    It's nice in theory; but fairly trivial in practice.

    Life Steal is slightly better - at Sig 20 you gain 18% of any health gain you've prevented. If the opponent has access to a heavy burst of regen, it could easily be a couple of thousand health/tick, which would equate to around 350/tick when Stolen by Doc. If you can get it right, that should at least be noticeable; if not game-changing.

    A bit of me wants to say that Doc's Sig could easily be fixed by a bit of numbers tweaking in the buff program. But it's looking more and more like that's not the kind of thing we can be confident will happen...
    Thor rags was a great one to help visualise it a bit better. Basically, unless the power gain is reeeeally potent 8% is almost useless in most scenarios. Few fights against Hype, who I considered to be a decent power gainer it's negligible at best.

    Does it have to be ability based healing for the lifesteal to work, or for example a heal blocked ROL wolverine would trigger life steal, even if his regen buffs don't active because of the heal.block?
  • Options
    007Bishop007Bishop Posts: 444 ★★★
    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
    I think that's exactly the issue, Dr Zola.

    "power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained"

    Well, say you're fighting Thor Ragnarok as he triggers Boon of the Gods from nothing: You Power Lock him, and prevent him gaining a full three bars of power. That's obviously useful.

    But when it comes to stealing the Power for yourself, Dr Octopus will only steal 8% of Max Power, or 1/4 of a Bar. That's about the same as he'd usually gain from landing a Heavy Attack.

    It's nice in theory; but fairly trivial in practice.

    Life Steal is slightly better - at Sig 20 you gain 18% of any health gain you've prevented. If the opponent has access to a heavy burst of regen, it could easily be a couple of thousand health/tick, which would equate to around 350/tick when Stolen by Doc. If you can get it right, that should at least be noticeable; if not game-changing.

    A bit of me wants to say that Doc's Sig could easily be fixed by a bit of numbers tweaking in the buff program. But it's looking more and more like that's not the kind of thing we can be confident will happen...
    Thor rags was a great one to help visualise it a bit better. Basically, unless the power gain is reeeeally potent 8% is almost useless in most scenarios. Few fights against Hype, who I considered to be a decent power gainer it's negligible at best.

    Does it have to be ability based healing for the lifesteal to work, or for example a heal blocked ROL wolverine would trigger life steal, even if his regen buffs don't active because of the heal.block?
    As I mentioned in my comment, the power steal scales with sig (up to 15%). It's really helpful in certain scenarios. As for life steal, it only triggers when the opponent has some sort of regen active (buff, passive or just simple willpower/recovery mastery healing)
  • Options
    Sean_WhoSean_Who Posts: 618 ★★★
    So his ability only applies to an insta
    007Bishop said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    DrZola said:

    Sean_Who said:

    I have never understood how it works or where it's best useful, he's only recently duped and just exploring some options with him – can someone help me understand.

    Physics breakthrough applies a power lock, as per the sig ability this breakthrough should be replaced by a new effect: power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained.

    Here he steals a negligible amount from an active power gain. Just below a bar, to just above: https://streamable.com/myqges

    Chemistry one confuses me even more. Deals direct damage equal to 100% of health gained (health gained from what?) and then life steal 18% of the damage done (damage done, from what? The first sentence?) – is the health gained, health that would have been gained if the heal block wasn't active?

    Here he lifesteals 32 hp then nothing for the rest of the time the heal block is active: https://streamable.com/omlb27

    These are great questions. I’ve had my 6* awakened for more than a year and I’ve yet to understand how the described effects actually work in game. I’d like to think my reading comprehension level is adequate, and the way Ock’s abilities are worded doesn’t seem to be the way they play out.

    I would welcome anyone’s input.

    Dr. Zola
    There was some old threads on him being bugged that they were looking into but it has been silent since with no updates. Very confusing.
    Yes. When I read his description, it *seems* like he should be a health and power stealing fiend. When I play him, it’s otherwise. Perhaps the amounts stolen are so paltry they don’t show up, but I’ve never been able to convince myself to invest in him because of the way he feels to play.

    Dr. Zola
    I think that's exactly the issue, Dr Zola.

    "power drain 100% of any power gained and power steal 8% of power drained"

    Well, say you're fighting Thor Ragnarok as he triggers Boon of the Gods from nothing: You Power Lock him, and prevent him gaining a full three bars of power. That's obviously useful.

    But when it comes to stealing the Power for yourself, Dr Octopus will only steal 8% of Max Power, or 1/4 of a Bar. That's about the same as he'd usually gain from landing a Heavy Attack.

    It's nice in theory; but fairly trivial in practice.

    Life Steal is slightly better - at Sig 20 you gain 18% of any health gain you've prevented. If the opponent has access to a heavy burst of regen, it could easily be a couple of thousand health/tick, which would equate to around 350/tick when Stolen by Doc. If you can get it right, that should at least be noticeable; if not game-changing.

    A bit of me wants to say that Doc's Sig could easily be fixed by a bit of numbers tweaking in the buff program. But it's looking more and more like that's not the kind of thing we can be confident will happen...
    Thor rags was a great one to help visualise it a bit better. Basically, unless the power gain is reeeeally potent 8% is almost useless in most scenarios. Few fights against Hype, who I considered to be a decent power gainer it's negligible at best.

    Does it have to be ability based healing for the lifesteal to work, or for example a heal blocked ROL wolverine would trigger life steal, even if his regen buffs don't active because of the heal.block?
    As I mentioned in my comment, the power steal scales with sig (up to 15%). It's really helpful in certain scenarios. As for life steal, it only triggers when the opponent has some sort of regen active (buff, passive or just simple willpower/recovery mastery healing)
    Thank you, didn't see your comment must have been in-between me replying.

    https://streamable.com/nhrtz4

    The regen makes more sense in wolvie fight, thanks for clearing things up. It's the damage done that confused my, thinking it was damage I inflicted while under heal block.
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