Spidey buff

2

Comments

  • VestasCureVestasCure Member Posts: 137 ★★



    How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?

    His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.



    Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.

    What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
    If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
    "If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

    This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

    I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

    And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
    If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
    I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.
    That's great, super happy for you.

    As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

    You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,405 ★★★★★



    How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?

    His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.



    Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.

    What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
    If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
    "If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

    This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

    I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

    And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
    If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
    I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.
    That's great, super happy for you.

    As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

    You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.
    I believe I said,
    Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
    I don't know how I became an elitist for wanting and expecting more out of this buff. Or how anything I said translated in any way to all I want are god-tiers. Anyway, it stands to reason that when one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him, mostly because you recognize him and everyone likes Spider-Man. Duh. That's the same thing everyone does until they realize the famous champ they use all the time actually isn't anything special once their roster fills out and they start trying out the other champs they're pulling.
    How much better would it be if some of the champs even my mom recognized were actually top tier? Not meta-redefining, but good enough that you could think, "It's a little more work using them in so many fights, but I like them enough to not care".
  • VestasCureVestasCure Member Posts: 137 ★★



    How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?

    His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.



    Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.

    What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
    If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
    "If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

    This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

    I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

    And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
    If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
    I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.
    That's great, super happy for you.

    As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

    You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.
    I believe I said,
    Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
    I don't know how I became an elitist for wanting and expecting more out of this buff. Or how anything I said translated in any way to all I want are god-tiers. Anyway, it stands to reason that when one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him, mostly because you recognize him and everyone likes Spider-Man. Duh. That's the same thing everyone does until they realize the famous champ they use all the time actually isn't anything special once their roster fills out and they start trying out the other champs they're pulling.
    How much better would it be if some of the champs even my mom recognized were actually top tier? Not meta-redefining, but good enough that you could think, "It's a little more work using them in so many fights, but I like them enough to not care".


    It's the way you put things. "exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries" this is clearly talking down on it rather than just accepting it's a good buff for other players. "one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him" You're clearly trying to make this out like he's a trash champ that shouldn't be used if you have anything remotely better.

    Maybe elitist was wrong to call you, but you can't honestly sit here and try to tell me you weren't being over the top with how you're talking about how bad the buff is.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,405 ★★★★★
    edited April 2023



    It's the way you put things. "exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries" this is clearly talking down on it rather than just accepting it's a good buff for other players. "one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him" You're clearly trying to make this out like he's a trash champ that shouldn't be used if you have anything remotely better.

    Maybe elitist was wrong to call you, but you can't honestly sit here and try to tell me you weren't being over the top with how you're talking about how bad the buff is.

    That was in response to your saying I didn't understand how to use him or how he works, so apparently he had intricacies that the buff naysayers and I weren't recognizing or optimizing.
    I'm saying if you only have a few champs, you're going to use the one you recognize first and arguably only Hulk is as or more instantly recognizable worldwide. I'm also saying that once your roster expands, players will ditch Spider-Man post buff, just like pre buff, for champs that do the same things he does, but better, or that don't need to do what he does because the things they bring to the table are better.
    After this buff he's only jumped up to become arguably the 4th best Science Spider-verse hero out of 5 and that's pitiful for the OG and the Marvel flagship. If I had more experience with Spider-Gwen, I might consider him still the worst.
    If people are satisfied with this level of buff execution and want to rank him up and use him, that's fine, I just won't be one of them if nothing changes.
  • ThePredator1001ThePredator1001 Member Posts: 869 ★★★★
    The buff just went live people need to give him a chance. I’ve been testing him abit and the damage isn’t bad, he’s got some good utility, and the amount of control you have over the fight with the constant taunts is very nice. He isn’t a top science champ, and it would be nice to have a little more utility or damage since he’s such a popular character. But overall I do enjoy playing him now and he’s now a solid champ. Not every buff needs to suddenly elevate the champion to top of the game.
  • Loki_Poki1280Loki_Poki1280 Member Posts: 511 ★★★
    @BigPoppaCBONE I honestly think that Spider-Gwen is better than OG Spidey Overall. In fact she's even easier to use and "Beginner Friendly" than OG Spidey. Her damage ramp up doesn't go away and Her evade is way more reliable. She has slow on heavy and access to enervate.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,405 ★★★★★

    @BigPoppaCBONE I honestly think that Spider-Gwen is better than OG Spidey Overall. In fact she's even easier to use and "Beginner Friendly" than OG Spidey. Her damage ramp up doesn't go away and Her evade is way more reliable. She has slow on heavy and access to enervate.

    I'll take your word for it, but that's a sad state of affairs if that puts him as the worst Science with maybe Symbiote as the worst across all classes.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,405 ★★★★★

    Not every buff needs to suddenly elevate the champion to top of the game.

    No one is saying that and "not every champ/buff should/can be the next Hercules/Magneto" shouldn't be the boilerplate excuse for lackluster efforts. The flagship Marvel character couldn't at least get a clear niche like Torch:Mystics? They couldn't even make him the best Peter Parker? He's got to settle for 4th if we count Peter Porker.
    This biff is getting you to play him today, but will you still use him for anything in a few months? We'll see.
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    pika said:

    I like to see some mid/god tier gameplay in BG's for either VT/GC meta or at least AW gameplay, otherwise it's pointless for this buff to be praised as a good one.

    He is absolutely unusable in BGs bcoz of low damage & all the willpower healing that he gives....may be despair can help with that healing but the damage is still not good enough in most cases
    In AW he can find some use in lower tiers....but I don't see him getting used offensively above Tier 7 or 8
  • AMS94AMS94 Member Posts: 1,776 ★★★★★
    Chobbly said:

    Having had a play, it's all a bit DDHK to me. Not being harsh but there are similarities.

    Fan favourite character, updated visuals or animations, specific and niche utility, average level of damage output and relies heavily on synergies.

    DDHK is mid but still better than Spidey IMO
    His ability to ignore miss & willpower regen places him a bit higher for me
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 948 ★★★★
    AMS94 said:

    Chobbly said:

    Having had a play, it's all a bit DDHK to me. Not being harsh but there are similarities.

    Fan favourite character, updated visuals or animations, specific and niche utility, average level of damage output and relies heavily on synergies.

    DDHK is mid but still better than Spidey IMO
    His ability to ignore miss & willpower regen places him a bit higher for me
    I agree, but at least Spider-Man doesn't fold like a napkin whenever he gains a damaging Debuff. But I think you're right.

    The pattern is the same though; I wonder if it's by design that the popular characters often (but not always) end up with average buffs...

    Players will want to rank up relatively minor characters from Marvel lore if they are particularly effective (Hercules, Gorr, Diablo, BWCV, Hyperion, etc etc) and likewise will be tempted to rank up their favourite characters because of who they are. If there were as effective as one another the more obscure characters wouldn't get a look in - wasted Dev effort.

    It's not a bad buff, he's just average now, but you get the point. And rank up resources are so valuable you avoid rankings up average champions.
  • Hector_1475Hector_1475 Member Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    Too late for editing the above post, but we should also add Limber nodes in the above list.
  • TripleBTripleB Member Posts: 263 ★★
    @Hector_1475 I don't know if Limber nodes work against him. They added this line of text to his kit, "The duration of Stun Debuffs on non-Skill Opponents cannot be reduced, and while the Opponent is Stunned their Ability Power Rate is reduced by 50%.".
  • VestasCureVestasCure Member Posts: 137 ★★
    TripleB said:

    @Hector_1475 I don't know if Limber nodes work against him. They added this line of text to his kit, "The duration of Stun Debuffs on non-Skill Opponents cannot be reduced, and while the Opponent is Stunned their Ability Power Rate is reduced by 50%.".

    He's saying add limber to the list as in add it to the list of things he is good at, because of exactly what you noted. Outside of skill champs he 100% ignores/counters limber.
  • TripleBTripleB Member Posts: 263 ★★
    @VestasCure gotcha, thanks! I misread.
  • DeaconDeacon Member Posts: 4,256 ★★★★★
    i mean there's at least one positive .. his PI got a huge boost lol
  • GlazzyBearGlazzyBear Member Posts: 135 ★★
    This post didn't age well at all. Check out this video.
    https://youtu.be/VvNd2vKLlIQ
  • GlazzyBearGlazzyBear Member Posts: 135 ★★
    Community can be so hypocritical sometimes. This buff is so similar to spidergwen's and miles morales. Not to mention, how howard the duck, chavez, and even magneto rely on stun for their buffed kits...
  • SpaceCorpSpaceCorp Member Posts: 73
    I mean, my opinion, but I sort of like the buff for Spidey. Did I want more? Yes
  • LickyLicky Member Posts: 333 ★★★
    Check out BmCG video it showcases him with and without synergies

    With great RNG and synergys he's really quite good

    But without he's a mid tier but could be god in a very few matchups
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 948 ★★★★
    edited April 2023
    The buff, for want of a better phrase, puts him up in the average tier as others have said. The problem is that so many other champs do elements of what he does, arguably better and less dependent on synergies.

    Yes, decent-ish damage at rank 4 but I'd expect decent damage for a rank 4. It's not the worst buff and he had some nice uses, but maybe not enough to lift him out of the mid-table obscurity.
  • TripleBTripleB Member Posts: 263 ★★
    Yes this is with synergies but it's still really cool that it is coming from OG Spidey. If I had to change one thing about him, it would be to revert his Critical Damage rating back to what it was prebuff.

  • Manup456Manup456 Member Posts: 891 ★★★★
    I think they spent all this time on reworking him and failed so the time could have been used for other things like bugs that are all over the place.
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