Zemo’s damage output comparison

SecondSkriller

So Zemo now only has one rotation you can go for, which is the sp2 sp1 sp1 rotation, giving you 31 bleeds per usage. I’m running 5/5 deep wounds, my Zemo is rank 5 max sig with a rank 3 5 star valk relic. Basically as topped up as a Zemo can be. Now let’s see what his damage output looks like compared to some other skill champions…

°Rank 5 max sig Zemo:

°Rank 4 unawakened Kate Bishop:

°Rank 1 7 star unawakened Hawkeye:

°Rank 4 sig 180 Attuma:

°Rank 3 Masacre:

°Rank 3 Ronin:

°Rank 1 7 star Killmonger:

°Rank 4 Aegon with 0 persistent charges:

In my opinion, if Shuri got a buff when her damage was better than this, he deserves one too. What do you think?

Sw0rdMaster

What was it before with the root lock rotation?

SecondSkriller

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

BitterSteel

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

Sw0rdMaster

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

SecondSkriller

BitterSteel said:

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

The main thread is just the people vs GroundedWisdom… I wanted to show off the damage because some people think he’s like…viable without the lock, which I mean yeah, but he’s not fast nor is his damage output decent enough

Sorry for spamming but yeah, I do feel kinda strongly about this…

SecondSkriller

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

Yeah, but that change to the playstyle was what made him viable you know? Otherwhise he’s not strong enough. Like I said, if Shuri got a buff when she had more damage, why not him aswell, especially now that root is nerfed

Sw0rdMaster

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

Yeah, but that change to the playstyle was what made him viable you know? Otherwhise he’s not strong enough. Like I said, if Shuri got a buff when she had more damage, why not him aswell, especially now that root is nerfed

True, maybe somee middle ground like increase his damage abit or defender doesn't power gain during root 🤔

SecondSkriller

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

Yeah, but that change to the playstyle was what made him viable you know? Otherwhise he’s not strong enough. Like I said, if Shuri got a buff when she had more damage, why not him aswell, especially now that root is nerfed

True, maybe somee middle ground like increase his damage abit or defender doesn't power gain during root 🤔

Exactly, this post is meant to be more harmless and to look forward to the future of Zemo. Maybe they can tune his damage up and then the new root will be less of a hit to his viability, that’s what I’m hoping to achieve

As much as I think tickets are needed for Zemo, I wonder if I’ll rank him down… I still like him so much, he’s just so weak…

Zekir

While being new to the Baron Zemo club, I've never felt his damage was fast as an attacker. He just had a cool trick that helped ignore annoying fights. I don't believe any of the fights on YT that I've seen ever placed Zemo has a quick killer.

[Deleted User]

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

Yeah, but that change to the playstyle was what made him viable you know? Otherwhise he’s not strong enough. Like I said, if Shuri got a buff when she had more damage, why not him aswell, especially now that root is nerfed

True, maybe somee middle ground like increase his damage abit or defender doesn't power gain during root 🤔

Exactly, this post is meant to be more harmless and to look forward to the future of Zemo. Maybe they can tune his damage up and then the new root will be less of a hit to his viability, that’s what I’m hoping to achieve

As much as I think tickets are needed for Zemo, I wonder if I’ll rank him down… I still like him so much, he’s just so weak…

Have you tested him in comparison to other skill champions in bleed immune matchups? I think he should at least beat out Killmonger in more ideal fights

SecondSkriller

AngelMcNugget said:

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

Sw0rdMaster said:

SecondSkriller said:

The same but he could do this:
https://youtu.be/WafflqagFcU

Looks like damage is the same & just a change to the playstyle.

Yeah, but that change to the playstyle was what made him viable you know? Otherwhise he’s not strong enough. Like I said, if Shuri got a buff when she had more damage, why not him aswell, especially now that root is nerfed

True, maybe somee middle ground like increase his damage abit or defender doesn't power gain during root 🤔

Exactly, this post is meant to be more harmless and to look forward to the future of Zemo. Maybe they can tune his damage up and then the new root will be less of a hit to his viability, that’s what I’m hoping to achieve

As much as I think tickets are needed for Zemo, I wonder if I’ll rank him down… I still like him so much, he’s just so weak…

Have you tested him in comparison to other skill champions in bleed immune matchups? I think he should at least beat out Killmonger in more ideal fights

He definetly will, because Killmonger doesn’t perform well at all in those, but for a 2023 legit rank 5 option champ to be compared to a 2018 champ that is known to have quite low damage output is pretty crazy hehe.

Zemo will do fine against shruggers and that’s what I aim to use him for in the future aswell

SecondSkriller

Zekir said:

While being new to the Baron Zemo club, I've never felt his damage was fast as an attacker. He just had a cool trick that helped ignore annoying fights. I don't believe any of the fights on YT that I've seen ever placed Zemo has a quick killer.

I’m invoking the Shuri argument since his cool tricks got taken away 🥲

Zekir

SecondSkriller said:

Zekir said:

While being new to the Baron Zemo club, I've never felt his damage was fast as an attacker. He just had a cool trick that helped ignore annoying fights. I don't believe any of the fights on YT that I've seen ever placed Zemo has a quick killer.

I’m invoking the Shuri argument since his cool tricks got taken away 🥲

As much as I would like that to happen, the Judges from Judge Dredd have spoken, judged, and executed. RIP to the civilians caught up on it.

ItsClobberinTime

Damn, I always felt like his damage was pretty average but the fact that he loses against a r3 Ronin and a r1 7* unawakened Hawkeye in terms of damage is just sad. He really should've received the Shuri treatment.

blackdragonight

BitterSteel said:

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

Sound salty I wonder if this was titiania would you say the same thing.

BitterSteel

blackdragonight said:

BitterSteel said:

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

Sound salty I wonder if this was titiania would you say the same thing.

I support RDTs here and have been arguing pretty strongly for them.

Take a breath, chill, and realise that just because someone says one thing against spamming the forums doesn’t mean they are against everything you stand for.

CyborgNinja135

ROL WS is not representative of what Zemo can do. Even before the change to Root he was a match-up dependent champion. Take him into a match up where you can take advantage of his cleanse and you'll see how fast his damage ramps up

blackdragonight

BitterSteel said:

blackdragonight said:

BitterSteel said:

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

Sound salty I wonder if this was titiania would you say the same thing.

I support RDTs here and have been arguing pretty strongly for them.

Take a breath, chill, and realise that just because someone says one thing against spamming the forums doesn’t mean they are against everything you stand for.

Spamming? Are you dense its about zemo a hot topic right now let the man grieve his favorite champ has been destroyed how about you mind your business and let kabam decide what spamming is.

BitterSteel

blackdragonight said:

BitterSteel said:

blackdragonight said:

BitterSteel said:

This is your 5th thread about slightly different aspects of the same situation my guy, they could all be in the same thread. I know you feel strongly about it and I understand, but this just clogs up the forum.

Sound salty I wonder if this was titiania would you say the same thing.

I support RDTs here and have been arguing pretty strongly for them.

Take a breath, chill, and realise that just because someone says one thing against spamming the forums doesn’t mean they are against everything you stand for.

Spamming? Are you dense its about zemo a hot topic right now let the man grieve his favorite champ has been destroyed how about you mind your business and let kabam decide what spamming is.

Yeah... I'm the one that sounds salty

MaxtheSilent

Man I have been on a Zemo rollercoaster. First YouTube had me psyched then I saw all the forum talk on Zemo being subpar BUT recently I’ve played more with him and I think he’s great. He can control and handle some match ups so easily and reliably that I don’t mind him not having big burst damage. For instance I used him in a Terrax match up and boom BG win where I was sure I’d get creamed. Actually, even though I’ve heard he’s terrible for BG because he takes too long I’ve found him to be a reliable attacker and in a pinch an ok defender. My point is that his utility turns some tricky fights into a cake walk and his damage in those fights is fine. He’s not a nuke he’s a precision heat seeking missile.

Colinwhitworth69

I don't think of Zemo as an every down skill champ, more of a specialist. Zemo is amazing against nodes/champs he was designed for. Long fights against non bleed immune champs. Nodes that proc his cleanses and therefore his root.

[Deleted User]

CyborgNinja135 said:

ROL WS is not representative of what Zemo can do. Even before the change to Root he was a match-up dependent champion. Take him into a match up where you can take advantage of his cleanse and you'll see how fast his damage ramps up

This ^^
Showing non ideal matchups is never going to be representative of Zemo's place in the contest.

Shuri got a buff because she really just didn't hold up against champions who were meant for the same things she was meant for. If I wanted a Tech champion with Shocks, I would've just gone with Nimrod, iDoom, or Nebula. After Shuri's buff, she's very often better than those three for longer form content and only a little bit worse for general questing.

In the same vein, if I want a Skill champion who's viable in fights with immunities or the ability to shrug debuffs, Zemo is a completely solid contender. Shang Chi is debatably the best in that area, but he's not a Miss counter, he doesn't have many buffs, and he's a horrible defender. Zemo is obviously not Nick Fury, but he fits in well where he belongs. He's not gonna change the game for most people, but there are places where Kingpin and Kate just won't be viable and Zemo will get it done just fine. If you really enjoy playing Zemo, I doubt you'll regret sticking with him. That being said, RDT's are still clearly overdue.

SecondSkriller

I agree with the points that everyone has brought forward about how WS isn’t indicative of his potential, but I was mostly testing average fight damage here. If Mantis received a buff because she wasn’t performing great in average matchups then I think Zemo should be tuned up slightly, not much. Enough so that the difference between him and Kate isn’t that big, since she overshadows him in every regard except cleansing, where there’s Kingpin and Shang to overshadow him.

moha

Zemo is overrated , actually he doesnt need nerf hehehe

SecondSkriller

I just has an idea: add Zemo’s Abomination synergy to his base kit by making his bleeds stack until 60, which is 2 sp2 rotations! What do y’all think?

SecondSkriller

AngelMcNugget said:

CyborgNinja135 said:

ROL WS is not representative of what Zemo can do. Even before the change to Root he was a match-up dependent champion. Take him into a match up where you can take advantage of his cleanse and you'll see how fast his damage ramps up

This ^^
Showing non ideal matchups is never going to be representative of Zemo's place in the contest.

Shuri got a buff because she really just didn't hold up against champions who were meant for the same things she was meant for. If I wanted a Tech champion with Shocks, I would've just gone with Nimrod, iDoom, or Nebula. After Shuri's buff, she's very often better than those three for longer form content and only a little bit worse for general questing.

In the same vein, if I want a Skill champion who's viable in fights with immunities or the ability to shrug debuffs, Zemo is a completely solid contender. Shang Chi is debatably the best in that area, but he's not a Miss counter, he doesn't have many buffs, and he's a horrible defender. Zemo is obviously not Nick Fury, but he fits in well where he belongs. He's not gonna change the game for most people, but there are places where Kingpin and Kate just won't be viable and Zemo will get it done just fine. If you really enjoy playing Zemo, I doubt you'll regret sticking with him. That being said, RDT's are still clearly overdue.

Here’s against Vision that is immune to his bleeds, pretty good result, not better than Kate or Attuma would be though:

And here’s again Scarlet Witch, who applies a lot of debuffs:

If his bleeds were as strong as his fury then I would be happy. Just reduce the max amount from 99 to 60 and he’s already better

SecondSkriller

He looks much better with the Immortal Abomination synergy:

SecondSkriller

And for reference, full team synergy Zemo:

Maxwell24

Zemo always had 1 rotation, and 1 alternate bug that wasn't fixed till months later lmao

Vegeta9001

Besides the obvious exploit where you could just win a fight without the opponent ever being able to attack. He's always been bad damage wise. I never ranked mine up even with the old root.