Theory on Input issues and lag

Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
in General Discussion
So
I have a theory...
that the amount of lag/dropped inputs you get is linked to age/size of account.

now hear me out.
I have an account with a 4million rating. and i play this on my iphone 14 pro max. i suffer a lot of input issues. missed blocks, champs running in instead of standing still, inability to charge a heavy, all kinds of things.
I have also played this account on my work phone (iphone 13)_ and my partners phone, some kind of sony android. and the issues are the same regardless. of device. so I think its just the game.

now, heres the kicker, I just pull out one of my alts the other day and decide, hey i am going to play this and get it up to see how it grows in the current game economy. now this account is level 40, i just started act 5 now and i have like 60k rating.
I started playing this on my iphone 13.
and I have no input issues on this account.
so I thought, thats wierd....
so I test, I have been using both accounts on multiple devices and
so far regardless of device I play my main account I get hit with intermittent control issues.
however when using my alt account regardless of device I have yet to have a single input error.

so the theory is that it is a latency issue cause by account being too big that puts extra strain on the server and device due to amount of data being sent back and forward. probably due to needing to sync all data with the server due to no account data being stored locally.

Now some have suggested that hoarders are affected worse by it, where having a stash of thousands of crystals makes this worse.
now i could test this and clear my stash of almost 7000 crystals, but if i do that what do i do with all the arena boosts from the 2000 odd arena boost crystals i have?
and if this does work? then what? can't save anything.
i do think kabam should look into latency caused via the amount of data sent back and forward to keep large account synced.

Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,380 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Demonzfyre said:

    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.

    i believe there are multiple things that cause it. even down to of course distance to server.

    i mean i totally hear what you are saying.
    also can't be sure as to what and how much data is getting sent back and forward. only kabam devs know this
    but of course i am trying to find reason as to why i have 2 vastly different experiences across 2 different accounts.
    that also makes no sense.

    you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,380 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.

    i believe there are multiple things that cause it. even down to of course distance to server.

    i mean i totally hear what you are saying.
    also can't be sure as to what and how much data is getting sent back and forward. only kabam devs know this
    but of course i am trying to find reason as to why i have 2 vastly different experiences across 2 different accounts.
    that also makes no sense.

    you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.
    I'm just saying that hoarding doesn't work the way you think it works. When they were doing a clean up of old crystals a few years back, this came up in that time period. It wasn't the amount of each crystal that was the problem, it was the amount of different and old crystals that were no longer being offered that was the problem.

    Miike and DNA3000 both confirmed that if you have 10k arena crystals, it's the same as having 1.

    The reason I know this is because I thought 5he same as you did back then.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    Could it be tied to roster size? The more champs you have, the more data there is to sync.

    That kind of combines your two thoughts. It’s not having 10,000 of one thing but it could be having 700+ individual champs on top of several years worth of random unique side quest related items still in your inventory from years of playing.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,380 ★★★★★
    Drago_von_Drago said:

    Could it be tied to roster size? The more champs you have, the more data there is to sync.

    That kind of combines your two thoughts. It’s not having 10,000 of one thing but it could be having 700+ individual champs on top of several years worth of random unique side quest related items still in your inventory from years of playing.

    If it was that, everyone would be having the exact same issues that have the same roster size.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Demonzfyre said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.

    i believe there are multiple things that cause it. even down to of course distance to server.

    i mean i totally hear what you are saying.
    also can't be sure as to what and how much data is getting sent back and forward. only kabam devs know this
    but of course i am trying to find reason as to why i have 2 vastly different experiences across 2 different accounts.
    that also makes no sense.

    you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.
    I'm just saying that hoarding doesn't work the way you think it works. When they were doing a clean up of old crystals a few years back, this came up in that time period. It wasn't the amount of each crystal that was the problem, it was the amount of different and old crystals that were no longer being offered that was the problem.

    Miike and DNA3000 both confirmed that if you have 10k arena crystals, it's the same as having 1.

    The reason I know this is because I thought 5he same as you did back then.
    i am not saying hoarding works in that way at all.
    i just said that SOME HAVE suggested it.
    offereds it as an option that was suggested by others i have spoken to not an idea i myself had.

    i was more thinking maybe account size champs and all that stuff maybe had an affect cus i can't think of another reason for what i am currently experiencing.

    i really think its a bunch of factors. could be many many things a pplay. question is, is there anything we can do to help it?

    where are kabam servers? only in canada?
    so people in AUS like myself or people in UK for example will suffer larger levels of latency and lag due to that.

    i know that is a big issue when playing other online games with people overseas. PING lag is real.

    i mean surely its not just toatally random?

    just really can't explain why 2 accoutns i have are playing differently.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    I’m suggesting roster size instead of crystal backlog as a factor, not as the factor. OP says he is having vastly different playing experiences in two accounts on the same devices . Crystal stash size has been ruled out but what about roster size being a factor?

    Clearly some people have issues and some don’t. My issues seem to come and go. Im wondering if a combination of account size, internet connection, server load, and who knows what else are all playing into it.

    Im trying to find a reason OP would have issues on his main but not his alt.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 1,012 ★★★★
    Way out of my realm of understanding but maybe someone on here knows: Does the game talk to the server during fights? And if so, does it need to do that or could that be paused during fights and resynced after the fight is over?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,380 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.

    i believe there are multiple things that cause it. even down to of course distance to server.

    i mean i totally hear what you are saying.
    also can't be sure as to what and how much data is getting sent back and forward. only kabam devs know this
    but of course i am trying to find reason as to why i have 2 vastly different experiences across 2 different accounts.
    that also makes no sense.

    you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.
    I'm just saying that hoarding doesn't work the way you think it works. When they were doing a clean up of old crystals a few years back, this came up in that time period. It wasn't the amount of each crystal that was the problem, it was the amount of different and old crystals that were no longer being offered that was the problem.

    Miike and DNA3000 both confirmed that if you have 10k arena crystals, it's the same as having 1.

    The reason I know this is because I thought 5he same as you did back then.
    i am not saying hoarding works in that way at all.
    i just said that SOME HAVE suggested it.
    offereds it as an option that was suggested by others i have spoken to not an idea i myself had.

    i was more thinking maybe account size champs and all that stuff maybe had an affect cus i can't think of another reason for what i am currently experiencing.

    i really think its a bunch of factors. could be many many things a pplay. question is, is there anything we can do to help it?

    where are kabam servers? only in canada?
    so people in AUS like myself or people in UK for example will suffer larger levels of latency and lag due to that.

    i know that is a big issue when playing other online games with people overseas. PING lag is real.

    i mean surely its not just toatally random?

    just really can't explain why 2 accoutns i have are playing differently.
    Last I heard, Kabam uses Google cloud services for their servers.or something like that. Servers are not in Canada.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    I've been playing since 2014 and do not have any lag and rarely have dropped inputs (at least I can't prove any of it wasn't my fault).

    Hoarders wouldn't have any effect because just owning the items doesn't do anything. What causes lag from the server is opening multiples at a time or using 100 sig stones at once. If you have 5k gold crystals, it's the same as having 1, until you go to open them.

    i believe there are multiple things that cause it. even down to of course distance to server.

    i mean i totally hear what you are saying.
    also can't be sure as to what and how much data is getting sent back and forward. only kabam devs know this
    but of course i am trying to find reason as to why i have 2 vastly different experiences across 2 different accounts.
    that also makes no sense.

    you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.
    I'm just saying that hoarding doesn't work the way you think it works. When they were doing a clean up of old crystals a few years back, this came up in that time period. It wasn't the amount of each crystal that was the problem, it was the amount of different and old crystals that were no longer being offered that was the problem.

    Miike and DNA3000 both confirmed that if you have 10k arena crystals, it's the same as having 1.

    The reason I know this is because I thought 5he same as you did back then.
    i am not saying hoarding works in that way at all.
    i just said that SOME HAVE suggested it.
    offereds it as an option that was suggested by others i have spoken to not an idea i myself had.

    i was more thinking maybe account size champs and all that stuff maybe had an affect cus i can't think of another reason for what i am currently experiencing.

    i really think its a bunch of factors. could be many many things a pplay. question is, is there anything we can do to help it?

    where are kabam servers? only in canada?
    so people in AUS like myself or people in UK for example will suffer larger levels of latency and lag due to that.

    i know that is a big issue when playing other online games with people overseas. PING lag is real.

    i mean surely its not just toatally random?

    just really can't explain why 2 accoutns i have are playing differently.
    Last I heard, Kabam uses Google cloud services for their servers.or something like that. Servers are not in Canada.
    those servers still have to talk to the main server where all the data is stored tho yeah? they are just like relay points. everything still needs to get back to the point where it is all stored.
    so do they do enough?
    i dunno.
    i mean many many games have region locked servers and will actively show the ping. so i dunno.
    i am just spitballing
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    Drago_von_Drago said:

    Way out of my realm of understanding but maybe someone on here knows: Does the game talk to the server during fights? And if so, does it need to do that or could that be paused during fights and resynced after the fight is over?

    it must atleast to some extent. as it is possible that in the middle of a fight you can get kicked out due to connection loss.
    most connection errors happen at the end of a fight, but the fact that you can be kicked in the middle of a fight indicates that atleast to some extent there is communication to the server.
    how much i dunno.
    but yeah the should be able to make the fight happen locally. suspend the data during a fight and therefore eliminating and server/connection related errors whilst in a fight.
    thats a possibility
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • e_mace_mac Member Posts: 104 ★
    I have noticed the same. On my main account, which I've been playing since 2015, I get a lot of dropped inputs. But I have a second account which is not developed at all, and I hardly ever play, on a much crappier phone, that never gets dropped inputs even with the phone being 100x inferior.
    I have another theory though. Can't say because Kabam would ban me (or at least edit my post and erase my theory)
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,596 ★★★
    My favourite part of this post:

    “you might think my theory is nonsensical, but so is what i am experiencing.”

    Love it.
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,168 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 said:

    Drago_von_Drago said:

    Way out of my realm of understanding but maybe someone on here knows: Does the game talk to the server during fights? And if so, does it need to do that or could that be paused during fights and resynced after the fight is over?

    it must atleast to some extent. as it is possible that in the middle of a fight you can get kicked out due to connection loss.
    most connection errors happen at the end of a fight, but the fact that you can be kicked in the middle of a fight indicates that atleast to some extent there is communication to the server.
    how much i dunno.
    but yeah the should be able to make the fight happen locally. suspend the data during a fight and therefore eliminating and server/connection related errors whilst in a fight.
    thats a possibility
    This is my understanding as well. If the fight just gets loaded, then you fight locally, then the results get transmitted post-fight, then it would be hard to see how anything other than device issues could cause lag (or perhaps corruption or incomplete loading during the fight download/upload process). This could be part of it, since I seem to have more issues if I have forgotten to close apps while I’m playing. But I’m not sure it explains all of it.

    I believe @DNA3000 and I chatted about this in an earlier thread, but there must be some communication during the fight—how much is unknown.

    Dr. Zola
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,596 ★★★
    The servers running the app are probably not the same as the servers storing stuff.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Drago_von_Drago said:

    Way out of my realm of understanding but maybe someone on here knows: Does the game talk to the server during fights? And if so, does it need to do that or could that be paused during fights and resynced after the fight is over?

    it must atleast to some extent. as it is possible that in the middle of a fight you can get kicked out due to connection loss.
    most connection errors happen at the end of a fight, but the fact that you can be kicked in the middle of a fight indicates that atleast to some extent there is communication to the server.
    how much i dunno.
    but yeah the should be able to make the fight happen locally. suspend the data during a fight and therefore eliminating and server/connection related errors whilst in a fight.
    thats a possibility
    This is my understanding as well. If the fight just gets loaded, then you fight locally, then the results get transmitted post-fight, then it would be hard to see how anything other than device issues could cause lag (or perhaps corruption or incomplete loading during the fight download/upload process). This could be part of it, since I seem to have more issues if I have forgotten to close apps while I’m playing. But I’m not sure it explains all of it.

    I believe @DNA3000 and I chatted about this in an earlier thread, but there must be some communication during the fight—how much is unknown.

    Dr. Zola
    i do agree with you and thats what i always thought,
    for a connection error to cause a drop out mid fight, or a log in from an alternate device cause a disconnect shows that atleast some level of data must be getting transmitted.
    surely this could also be paused and that would totally eliminate any errors that connection and ping could cause.
    i feel like this would help as then it would all be just down to device purely.
    i think i may have seen a convo like that previously.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,412 ★★★★
    smdam38 said:

    The servers running the app are probably not the same as the servers storing stuff.

    but all the data needs to get back to the servers storing stuff else where is all the data stored and saved?
    like open a crystal, get a champ, that is saved to account instantly. therefore transmitted to the server storing the data.
    so using a google cloud server as a relay point could help as then for example my device does not have to communicate with kabam direct.
    ie, AUS --> Canada
    using a relay server would be eg AUS --> Singapore and Canada --> Singapore so yeah kabam server could be constantly syncing with many servers around the world, but they still all need to be in sync. distance is still an issue for ping, it just reduces it not eliminates it.
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,596 ★★★
    Just put the app servers in the cloud where the database servers are.
    Don’t try to make them talk across the net.
    Latency will kill you.
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