Guardian triggering shock and cleanse with Zemo

TyEdge

I have videos and I don’t see how to post them here, but Guardian is randomly and incorrectly triggering his shock after Zemo’s sp1 applies disorient.

I’m not in assassin territory, so that has nothing to do with it. I’m not stunned so it can’t be pacify mastery.

Disorient is only supposed to affect defensive ability accuracy and block proficiency, so guardian shouldn’t apply shock, and there shouldn’t be anything to cleanse.

It also seems to happen sporadically during the fight thereafter.

TyEdge

Here are the stills from the moments the cleanse triggered. One is immediately after sp1 early in the fight. This is wrong for two reasons: 1) there’s supposed to be a 3-second delay before shock, and 2) disorient only affects defensive AA. The others? I have no idea why they activated. Screenshots are posting out of order, but they show going from 5 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 2 and 2 to 1

Yodabolt21

When Guardian's AA is reduced he applies shock. Read the champs abilities, its helps

JustWantTheRewards

Yodabolt21 said:

When Guardian's AA is reduced he applies shock. Read the champs abilities, its helps

Not technically true. If you read Guardians abilities you'd see that it says "while all of Guardians abilities are below 100% Ability Accuracy"

All. Disorient only reduces defensive ability accuracy. Unless all of Guardians abilities are considered defensive, the Shock logically shouldn't be triggering.

TyEdge

Yodabolt21 said:

When Guardian's AA is reduced he applies shock. Read the champs abilities, its helps

Thanks for coming here to simultaneously have a bad attitude and be wrong. Your contribution is appreciated.

As I stated in my original post:

Disorient is only supposed to affect defensive ability accuracy and block proficiency, so guardian shouldn’t apply shock, and there shouldn’t be anything to cleanse.

I’ve added a screenshot from the game with a helpful red circle so next time you can read the champ’s abilities. It helps.

AverageDesi

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

TyEdge

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

JustWantTheRewards

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

TyEdge

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

JustWantTheRewards

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

AverageDesi

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

Yeah kind of. I'm not 100% sure of how many frames exactly DAAR is applied or how the 3+ seconds of Guardian is calculated. But this instant zero damage shocks also get triggered with other DAAR champs as well

TyEdge

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

Thank you! Here it is.

https://youtu.be/_V5v74Cn8SQ?feature=shared

Yodabolt21

TyEdge said:

Yodabolt21 said:

When Guardian's AA is reduced he applies shock. Read the champs abilities, its helps

Thanks for coming here to simultaneously have a bad attitude and be wrong. Your contribution is appreciated.

As I stated in my original post:

Disorient is only supposed to affect defensive ability accuracy and block proficiency, so guardian shouldn’t apply shock, and there shouldn’t be anything to cleanse.

I’ve added a screenshot from the game with a helpful red circle so next time you can read the champ’s abilities. It helps.

As Desi said, there really isn't such a thing as OAAR or DAAR. Even though the disorient on Zemo says DAAR, it still is just AAR. It is working correctly, if worded poorly.

AverageDesi

So this happens. Also the "Shock " call-out happens every 3-4 seconds which seems consistent.

Yodabolt21

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

The disorient is permanent. That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently. Just like against Domino the shock stays on her until you remove it with an sp2.

TyEdge

Guardian’s abilities don’t say “3 consecutive seconds” so I think what we’re seeing is the shock apply after 3 seconds under attack. When I’m stalling and dexing toward the end, the triggers get close together, which would work because he’s attacking more.

I still don’t agree that it should trigger at all given that his offensively ability accuracy is 100% at all times.

AverageDesi

AverageDesi said:

So this happens. Also the "Shock " call-out happens every 3-4 seconds which seems consistent.

This only happens when you hit him. If you stay back the call out does not happen

TyEdge

AverageDesi said:

AverageDesi said:

So this happens. Also the "Shock " call-out happens every 3-4 seconds which seems consistent.

This only happens when you hit him. If you stay back the call out does not happen

Thanks. So basically the game uses OAAR and DAAR as shorthand terms and they aren’t separate values in the game, which is causing the interaction here?

So as Guardian’s abilities are written, it shouldn’t happen. As the game is coded, it does happen. It certainly makes for a fun surprise getting rooted in the middle node on the war map.

JustWantTheRewards

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

AverageDesi

JustWantTheRewards said:

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

Yup . Only when hitting or getting hit

TyEdge

AverageDesi said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

Yup . Only when hitting or getting hit

So it’s notable to me that the two instances of this triggering are passive AAR - hulkbuster and zemo.

I tried to replicate this with Nick Fury looping SP1 against Guardian and attacking aggressively in between. I never received a shock.

Yodabolt21

AverageDesi said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

Yup . Only when hitting or getting hit

That's not how it works against Domino. You can dash back stay idle and she will get a shock without hitting her, blocking her or getting hit. I think this is just another example of poor wording from Kabam.

He applies shocks when he AA is reduced. It's that simple. He has always worked this way.

JustWantTheRewards

Yodabolt21 said:

AverageDesi said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

Yup . Only when hitting or getting hit

That's not how it works against Domino. You can dash back stay idle and she will get a shock without hitting her, blocking her or getting hit. I think this is just another example of poor wording from Kabam.

He applies shocks when he AA is reduced. It's that simple. He has always worked this way.

Domino's AAR isn't defensive, that's why hers work's different.

And no, it's not that simple.

TyEdge

Yodabolt21 said:

AverageDesi said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

Yodabolt21 said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

JustWantTheRewards said:

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

There is nothing such as "defensive ability accuracy" or "defensive ability accuracy". What DAAR(Defensive ability accuracy reduction) means, is that when the champion who has a DAAR effect on them get hit, their ability accuracy gets reduced. And that means their ability accuracy as a whole. Same goes for Offensive Ability Accuracy.

If you have armours on Hulkbuster, and you use him as an attacker against a node that has masochism, you will find that masochism will occasionally fail to trigger. This is because masochism tries to trigger when the opponent tries to hit you(or hitting you) and Hulkbuster's armours have OAAR.

Same goes for Proxima preventing Masochism. And all other champs that behave like that

Guardian applies shock after 3+ seconds below 100%. Are you saying that it would trigger after every 3 seconds of being “under attack” in this case? (Edit: that the 3 seconds can build across different attack windows, as opposed to 3 straight seconds below 100%)

I don't think that 3 seconds counts for activation, only for reapplication. If Desi is right, then Guardians AA is being reduced every time he tries to activate a defensive ability, so the shock would be activating multiple times. It seems to be working as intended.

The shocks and cleanses applied at 20 seconds, 35 seconds, 52 seconds and 1min 5 seconds.

If it was applying and cleansing every 3 seconds I’d absolutely understand the interaction and agree. I couldn’t identify a pattern among what was happening on screen or the time intervals (20 seconds, 15, 17 and 13 second gaps)

I imagine it only happened when Guardian activated a Defensive ability. Check if it happens when he parries, gains force field charges, etc.

His ability accuracy is only reduced temporarily, I don't think it's even reduced for 3 seconds. It should only be applying Shock for a quick second. If you post the video to YouTube and then put the link in this thread you can show it here.

That means that ALL of Guardians abilities are reduced permanently.

I don't see how that would be the case. Offensive abilities still work just fine when Disorient is active. From what Desi said, it seems the activation of defensive abilities is what causes the overall AAR. No ability should be permanently reduced while Disorient is active.

Yup . Only when hitting or getting hit

That's not how it works against Domino. You can dash back stay idle and she will get a shock without hitting her, blocking her or getting hit. I think this is just another example of poor wording from Kabam.

He applies shocks when he AA is reduced. It's that simple. He has always worked this way.

You two hours ago: “read the description, smart guy”

You now: “this is an example of a poorly written description”

A truly remarkable turn of events.

AverageDesi

TyEdge said:

So it’s notable to me that the two instances of this triggering are passive AAR - hulkbuster and zemo.

I tried to replicate this with Nick Fury looping SP1 against Guardian and attacking aggressively in between. I never received a shock.

AverageDesi

Sheck

JustWantTheRewards

AverageDesi said:

Sheck

Yeah, I tested it myself and Nick is definitely getting shocks, but it seems pretty inconsistent

Yodabolt21

Yodabolt21 said:

TyEdge said:

Yodabolt21 said:

When Guardian's AA is reduced he applies shock. Read the champs abilities, its helps

Thanks for coming here to simultaneously have a bad attitude and be wrong. Your contribution is appreciated.

As I stated in my original post:

Disorient is only supposed to affect defensive ability accuracy and block proficiency, so guardian shouldn’t apply shock, and there shouldn’t be anything to cleanse.

I’ve added a screenshot from the game with a helpful red circle so next time you can read the champ’s abilities. It helps.

As Desi said, there really isn't such a thing as OAAR or DAAR. Even though the disorient on Zemo says DAAR, it still is just AAR. It is working correctly, if worded poorly.

I also said that 2 hours ago....

TyEdge

AverageDesi said:

TyEdge said:

So it’s notable to me that the two instances of this triggering are passive AAR - hulkbuster and zemo.

I tried to replicate this with Nick Fury looping SP1 against Guardian and attacking aggressively in between. I never received a shock.

Did it actually apply the debuff or do damage? You got the shock call out but it doesn’t appear that you ever actually got shocked (at least in this photo; I know a video can show more).

The issue as it relates to zemo is that the cleanse charges lead to a root when they’re exhausted. This significantly changes the fight, especially if the application of the shocks is uneven or unpredictable, which it seems to be.

JustWantTheRewards

TyEdge said:

AverageDesi said:

TyEdge said:

So it’s notable to me that the two instances of this triggering are passive AAR - hulkbuster and zemo.

I tried to replicate this with Nick Fury looping SP1 against Guardian and attacking aggressively in between. I never received a shock.

Did it actually apply the debuff or do damage?

It does apply the debuff, but it doesn't do damage. It's just an incredibly short duration, so the debuff doesn't show up at the top. It's the same way Angela works when she has enough buffs with her awakened ability.

I do agree that the shocks seem unpredictable. I tried it and Nick was getting shocks even without activating any defensive abilities, or at least none that I could tell.

TyEdge

Here’s the video of masacre getting a similar result: shock callouts but never a shock debuff or damage.

If that’s right, it’s because his ability accuracy returns to normal when he’s not under attack. Still, the cleanse charges triggering immediately for Zemo is what’s causing Guardian to be rooted, and I don’t think the fight should play that way, though I understand the mechanics being discussed here and how we’ve ended up where we are. If Zemo’s cleanse applied after .4 seconds or something, the issue wouldn’t exist.

https://youtu.be/QAaQ97jAIeE?feature=shared