Making champs too dependant on awakening

There are a few champs in the game who rely on their awakened ability too much and I think it's pretty stupid.

Prime example of such champion is Spider-man (classic). Now, I know his buffvwas controversial, but let's not discuss that for a while. When he is dupped, he can get 2x 50% decelerate debuffs (flat), which should provide effective counter to evade and unstop. That is pretty useful imo.

However without the dupp, the champ is pretty much worthless. 50% reduction to unstop+evade is way too unreliable to be used anywhere. Without his awakening, this champ is simply trash, and he isn't the only one.

And this wouldn't be much ofa problem, if this champ wasn't available as a 7*. Just imagine pulling a Spidey as your first 7* and knowing, that theoretically you can expect him his dupe roughly in the first 70-ish 7* crystals. And that's a lot.

To be clear: I don't have Spidey as my only 7*. I have 5 of these now, and I have been blesses with a Sunspot dupe, but Spidey is one of my 7*s and it feels really annoying to have to wait until dupe to even be able to play the champ propperly. Making champs useless without awakening is a thing I have hated for years. One thing is champs like Ægon or Night Thrasher, who heavily benefit from their sig ability, but they still can theoretically be used in some content. But there are literally 0 situations when anyone would rely on an undupped Spider-man (classic). And that is just a stupid design imho.

Finally, let me ask you: what do you think should be the idea behind sig abilities? Should it be a welcome bonus, additional value, or an essential part of the champ's kit?

Comments

Crine60

I don't think anything that is a main part of the champ should be locked away behind a dupe/awakening or high sig requirement. (I also hate when they give champs abilities that can only be used against us instead of them being things that can also be used when controlled by players)

Thi101

I agree
It was less of a problem when there were less champions in the game

But now, needing a specific dupe kinda screws you over.
Signature abilities should be some extra bonus or enhance a ability the champion already has, and not be the reason why they’re good in the first place

PantherusNZ

There are champions who are fantastic straight out of the box, there are champs for whom becoming woke improves them significantly (to the point the being non-woke makes them comparatively "worthless"), and then there are champions who not only need to be woke but also high/mix sig.

Yes, it can be frustrating to pull a champion who can't do a lot yet, but in the meantime you have a bunch of other champions who are fantstic just the way they are.

So while you wait for that critical dupe(s), play with the champs who don't need it.

ZsirhcZ

My recently Duped 7 star IM IW would like a word. Could have gotten any other 7 star, but no. I dupe the only one I’ve got.

Same experience several years ago with my 1st and 2nd 6 star crystals. Both were Silver Surfer. And back then it was 4-5 months between 6 stars and there were about 70 in the pool.

But, I understand your point.

BitterSteel

First off, I’m very confused at you using Aegon as an example of a champion who can be used unduped in content. He’s actually like the best example of a champ who’s as close to useless as you can get unduped. You want a combo of 70-100 or more to start to be useful. And I’m even more confused when you’re using Spidey as an example of a champ who’s bad unawakened. His sig adds a lot, yes, but he can still do a hell of a lot unduped.

Where are you using an unduped aegon or night thrasher that you wouldn’t use a unduped Spidey?

Onto why Spidey is good unduped. A 50% decelerate shuts down any evade or unstoppable that has a 50% chance to proc.

Ignoring unstoppable for a moment since that’s usually 100%, any evade like spider Gwen, BW classic, mesmerise, night crawler etc is shut down.

Decelerate is a flat reduction, not one like slow that affects ability accuracy of evades. It just takes off the chance to evade.

And for unstoppables, you can often wait and see if it procs. Footloose for example, did it proc? No, then hit them. Yes, then wait it out or hit them during your extended duration stun from parry. Unstoppable on a timer, did it proc etc. 50% decelerate has a lot of uses imo.

unduped Spidey is also not useless damage wise, he has a lot of the same damage that a sig 20 would have, not the max sure, but very similar. At sig 20 you go from 7 second taunts to 7.6. Nice, yeah sure. But not a game changer in how many taunts you’re able to stack at once.

Here’s my unduped r1 putting out some nice scores in BGs if you’re interested to see what he can do

https://youtu.be/5oPgvi-9ntc?si=P8xEPPi6v9x3xSrf

FrostGiantLord

There are a few champs in the game who rely on their awakened ability too much and I think it's pretty stupid.

Prime example of such champion is Spider-man (classic). Now, I know his buffvwas controversial, but let's not discuss that for a while. When he is dupped, he can get 2x 50% decelerate debuffs (flat), which should provide effective counter to evade and unstop. That is pretty useful imo.

However without the dupp, the champ is pretty much worthless. 50% reduction to unstop+evade is way too unreliable to be used anywhere. Without his awakening, this champ is simply trash, and he isn't the only one.

And this wouldn't be much ofa problem, if this champ wasn't available as a 7*. Just imagine pulling a Spidey as your first 7* and knowing, that theoretically you can expect him his dupe roughly in the first 70-ish 7* crystals. And that's a lot.

To be clear: I don't have Spidey as my only 7*. I have 5 of these now, and I have been blesses with a Sunspot dupe, but Spidey is one of my 7*s and it feels really annoying to have to wait until dupe to even be able to play the champ propperly. Making champs useless without awakening is a thing I have hated for years. One thing is champs like Ægon or Night Thrasher, who heavily benefit from their sig ability, but they still can theoretically be used in some content. But there are literally 0 situations when anyone would rely on an undupped Spider-man (classic). And that is just a stupid design imho.

Finally, let me ask you: what do you think should be the idea behind sig abilities? Should it be a welcome bonus, additional value, or an essential part of the champ's kit?

The problem isn't the champ being too dependent on awakening, it's how skilled you are at playing with the unawakneed champ.

Ourobøros

There are a few champs in the game who rely on their awakened ability too much and I think it's pretty stupid.

Prime example of such champion is Spider-man (classic). Now, I know his buffvwas controversial, but let's not discuss that for a while. When he is dupped, he can get 2x 50% decelerate debuffs (flat), which should provide effective counter to evade and unstop. That is pretty useful imo.

However without the dupp, the champ is pretty much worthless. 50% reduction to unstop+evade is way too unreliable to be used anywhere. Without his awakening, this champ is simply trash, and he isn't the only one.

And this wouldn't be much ofa problem, if this champ wasn't available as a 7*. Just imagine pulling a Spidey as your first 7* and knowing, that theoretically you can expect him his dupe roughly in the first 70-ish 7* crystals. And that's a lot.

To be clear: I don't have Spidey as my only 7*. I have 5 of these now, and I have been blesses with a Sunspot dupe, but Spidey is one of my 7*s and it feels really annoying to have to wait until dupe to even be able to play the champ propperly. Making champs useless without awakening is a thing I have hated for years. One thing is champs like Ægon or Night Thrasher, who heavily benefit from their sig ability, but they still can theoretically be used in some content. But there are literally 0 situations when anyone would rely on an undupped Spider-man (classic). And that is just a stupid design imho.

Finally, let me ask you: what do you think should be the idea behind sig abilities? Should it be a welcome bonus, additional value, or an essential part of the champ's kit?
The problem isn't the champ being too dependent on awakening, it's how skilled you are at playing with the unawakneed champ.

AA won’t do what he does best if not awaken, neither will Cap Beard, neither Cap Marvel or Corvus and so goes the list. Skill has nothing to do with it

[Deleted User]

My recently Duped 7-star IM IW would like a word. Could have gotten any other 7 star, but no. I dupe the only one I’ve got.

Same experience several years ago with my 1st and 2nd 6 star crystals. Both were Silver Surfer. And back then it was 4-5 months between 6 stars and there were about 70 in the pool.

But, I understand your point.

I also duped my one and only 7 star Mysterio lol

laserjohn26

All dupes are different. Some benefit offensively, some defensively. Some are fine at sig 1 ( corvus) while some need sig 200. Some need a certain level in the middle and don't really benefit after (angela). Some are absolutely worthless (ht). A few actually get worse (night crawler). Some in situations become unusuable( unduped she hulk against summer of pain emma was arguably best option while duped she hulk was unusable).

Point being kabaam tries their best but just like when a champ turns out too good or terrible, so do awakened abilities.

Lemonloaf

I think you've got a point but you used terrible examples. You should've used omega red or even the new champ vox who looks amazing with dupe but near useless without. I agree that champion awakening ability should just enhance the things they already do, some great examples of these champs are: sunspot, red mags, kingpin and many more so basically kabam please stop making champs that absolutely depend on dupe.

phillgreen

A few years ago we probably said the same thing about 6*.

I understand the frustration but no one should be setting aside their 6* roster until you have a good amount of 7*, most of us are noobs in the 7* world and sigs etc really don't matter at this point.