You have to be clear: Which kind of Deliberately losing will be punished

Ericson23

BG S12 Alliance Event Milestones 17 Points Requied 12,000,000, that means On average, each member needs to earn 450,000 points. That means winning 61 matches with Elder Marks(450000÷7350≈61).

From Platinum 1 to Uru 3, it takes 25 games to win them all. So tell me how to get the extra 36 wins(61-25).I'm not saying that I will definitely win consecutively, but this is the general trend.

If you don't control the segment before reaching Uru 3 and deliberately lose a few games, how can players complete alliance event with a little ease? This is the general understanding of people on S9, and this is what they did.

Now you tell me that I can't lose on purpose, so how much more time do I need to spend in order to complete your alliance event? Because the higher the level, the lower the winning rate will definitely be.

Kabam，You have to be clear: Which kind of Deliberately losing will be punished！

We don’t want to spend too much time just to complete that stupid alliance event. Some alliances have turned it into a brass-tag indices and treated it as a job.

flapjax

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Ericson23

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Since alliance event is set, it is inevitable that there will be talents who deliberately lose to control the segments.

Ericson23

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

PT_99

"Play how we want you to play or we ban you."
😃
It's clear that Kabam did not put much thought about changing the win-loss situation and just decided to ban farming because some uncollected guy cried on forums how he's facing big accounts. Shameful.

Abspain101

It's pretty obvious they are talking about the point farmers the ones that camp out in plat 2 helping and hurting the lower accounts I mean someone on riches video on this was bragging about how they get 1.7 mil points a season doing this method if that's not exploiting the system I don't know what is and just for my stance I'm neither for or against this method

Ericson23

If people with low-level titles always encounter high-prestige opponents who deliberately lose, then change the matching rules. Why punish people who deliberately lose?

ItsClobberinTime

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

InsaneSkull

Waiting for legit players to get banned for losing too much because of skill.

Abspain101

Ericson23 said:

If people with low-level titles always encounter high-prestige opponents who deliberately lose, then change the matching rules. Why punish people who deliberately lose?

It's not the deliberately lose aspect ppl are focusing on its the deliberately lose to then beable to use there elders marks to get the points faster and are deliberately staying in a particular section so they can get as many points as they want

ItsClobberinTime

PT_99 said:

"Play how we want you to play or we ban you."
😃
It's clear that Kabam did not put much thought about changing the win-loss situation and just decided to ban farming because some uncollected guy cried on forums how he's facing big accounts. Shameful.

And now you're crying because you won't be able to bulldoze those uncollected players who were crying on the forums last time. Sucks when the tables turn huh? 💀

Dukenpuke

If I stay in Bronze 3 all season because I afk every match, I'm going to get banned?

Ericson23

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

It is us play the game, not the game play us, dude. I don't think it's wrong for players to lose on purpose just to make it easier to complete milestones.

Abspain101

Dukenpuke said:

If I stay in Bronze 3 all season because I afk every match, I'm going to get banned?

No its for the point farmers they are exploiting it so they can get points faster and as many as they want they want to try to catch the players that are using this method

Ericson23

Abspain101 said:

Ericson23 said:

If people with low-level titles always encounter high-prestige opponents who deliberately lose, then change the matching rules. Why punish people who deliberately lose?

It's not the deliberately lose aspect ppl are focusing on its the deliberately lose to then beable to use there elders marks to get the points faster and are deliberately staying in a particular section so they can get as many points as they want

Yeah, I think this is a good idea. Playing games should be as easy as possible for some people

Shiroihara

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

The problem is having a milestone system that rewards you significantly more for victories but doesn’t specify at what level.
In my opinion, they either change that and give more points for victories the higher you go or stop relying on milestone systems.

BringPopcorn

Abspain101 said:

Dukenpuke said:

If I stay in Bronze 3 all season because I afk every match, I'm going to get banned?

No its for the point farmers they are exploiting it so they can get points faster and as many as they want they want to try to catch the players that are using this method

Lol its the same thing...
Its losing on purpose.

PT_99

"Play how we want you to play or we ban you."
😃

ItsClobberinTime said:

PT_99 said:

"Play how we want you to play or we ban you."
😃
It's clear that Kabam did not put much thought about changing the win-loss situation and just decided to ban farming because some uncollected guy cried on forums how he's facing big accounts. Shameful.

And now you're crying because you won't be able to bulldoze those uncollected players who were crying on the forums last time. Sucks when the tables turn huh? 💀

Yes, I like to stomp uncollected cavalier scrubs but I also hate when whales stomp me in GC, so I will always pick my likes over my hates.
Very easy.

Ericson23

Listen, I don’t necessarily agree with those who deliberately control segmentation. This is mainly due to the design issues of BG mode. Pay attention to those key issues, milestons, number of wins

Dukenpuke

Abspain101 said:

Dukenpuke said:

If I stay in Bronze 3 all season because I afk every match, I'm going to get banned?

No its for the point farmers they are exploiting it so they can get points faster and as many as they want they want to try to catch the players that are using this method

I wish they'd clarify that. I afk BGs at work to meet alliance requirements. A loss with elders marks is worth ~2500 points. I can afk a match every 15 mins or so and get 75-80k points when I otherwise couldn't play.

I'm not trying to make it easier to win or to exploit the matchmaking system. I'm giving away free wins to others in exchange for alliance points.

Ericson23

Dukenpuke said:

Abspain101 said:

Dukenpuke said:

If I stay in Bronze 3 all season because I afk every match, I'm going to get banned?

No its for the point farmers they are exploiting it so they can get points faster and as many as they want they want to try to catch the players that are using this method

I wish they'd clarify that. I afk BGs at work to meet alliance requirements. A loss with elders marks is worth ~2500 points. I can afk a match every 15 mins or so and get 75-80k points when I otherwise couldn't play.

I'm not trying to make it easier to win or to exploit the matchmaking system. I'm giving away free wins to others in exchange for alliance points.

This is very reasonable. Everyone has their own special situation. You can't say that other people's actual situation is unreasonable. Not to mention that other people’s choices are illegal. If it harms the interests of others, it is because there is a problem with the game mode settings, not the player's fault.

flapjax

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

But it's because of the system Kabam designed that this farming is even a thing.

To be clear, I'm not in favor of farming points in the VT but I do think it's ridiculous that they're threatening bans for people who are taking the path of least resistance to get their 450k when it's within the design of the content they created. I'd agree it's somewhat unsportsmanlike or against the spirit of the game mode, but the solution should be to fix the problem they created in the first place.

Either, as others have suggested, have wins in higher tiers contribute more points toward the milestones or some other tweak that incentives people to move on.

Magrailothos

In the first instance, I would have thought this is just intended to stop people accepting a match, then putting down their phone and walking away.

If a person doesn't select any champions and doesn't throw a single attack, it's pretty clear they're farming.

If they actually select a champion, play the match but lose; I think it'll be hard (but not impossible) to prove that they've lost on purpose.

---

But, surely there's a better way of doing this, rather than threatening bans?

If it's apparent to the game team that the wrap-around rewards for their competitive game mode are incentivising players to play in a non-competetive way; wouldn't the best solution be to re-design the reward/incentive system; rather than reaching for the punishment stick?

ItsClobberinTime

Ericson23 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

It is us play the game, not the game play us, dude. I don't think it's wrong for players to lose on purpose just to make it easier to complete milestones.

The game isn't playing you, you're simply deciding not to follow the rules Kabam has implemented, and whose fault is that?
Enough with the entitlement already lol I am Paragon too, I'm not a whale, I will have to exchange blows with actual whales in GC to get to 450k and I see zero issues with this. Why? Cause I didn't rely on farming to get to 450k last time this was a thing and it's 100% possible, stop looking at this as punishment and look at it as an opportunity to get better at the game so you don't have to rely on farming ever again (not like you could even if you wanted to but you get the point) 😉

Ericson23

flapjax said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

But it's because of the system Kabam designed that this farming is even a thing.

To be clear, I'm not in favor of farming points in the VT but I do think it's ridiculous that they're threatening bans for people who are taking the path of least resistance to get their 450k when it's within the design of the content they created. I'd agree it's somewhat unsportsmanlike or against the spirit of the game mode, but the solution should be to fix the problem they created in the first place.

Either, as others have suggested, have wins in higher tiers contribute more points toward the milestones or some other tweak that incentives people to move on.

Have wins in higher tiers contribute more points toward the milestones, this sound like a good idea, this will certainly reduce some intentional losses, but it won’t eliminate them all.

Ericson23

Magrailothos said:

In the first instance, I would have thought this is just intended to stop people accepting a match, then putting down their phone and walking away.

If a person doesn't select any champions and doesn't throw a single attack, it's pretty clear they're farming.

If they actually select a champion, play the match but lose; I think it'll be hard (but not impossible) to prove that they've lost on purpose.

---

But, surely there's a better way of doing this, rather than threatening bans?

If it's apparent to the game team that the wrap-around rewards for their competitive game mode are incentivising players to play in a non-competetive way; wouldn't the best solution be to re-design the reward/incentive system; rather than reaching for the punishment stick?

Agree, they need pay more attention to the mode settings like milestones and matching rules

PT_99

@Ericson23 Winning with Elder marks give 4700 points or 7350?

Ericson23

PT_99 said:

@Ericson23 Winning with Elder marks give 4700 points or 7350?

4700+2650,
lost still get 2650, Participation points

PT_99

Ericson23 said:

PT_99 said:

@Ericson23 Winning with Elder marks give 4700 points or 7350?

4700+2650,
lost still get 2650, Participation points

I will cook now.

GroundedWisdom

Shiroihara said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

The problem is having a milestone system that rewards you significantly more for victories but doesn’t specify at what level.
In my opinion, they either change that and give more points for victories the higher you go or stop relying on milestone systems.

You can't blame the Rewards for people choosing to take advantage of the system. In any other context, it would be benign most instances. This is at the expense of other Players, and an entire ranking system that operates based on matching Players relative to their actual skills and abilities.

ItsClobberinTime

flapjax said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Ericson23 said:

flapjax said:

I mean you can get those other wins in the GC, but it won't be as easy obviously. That's what they intend, though.

Does kind of feel like seeding hurts you in that regard when you look at it that way.

Also to be clear I'm not in favor of win farming but I think it's dumb to threaten/punish people for playing within the parameters they set, rather than trying to fix why win farming exists in the first place.

Like you said, is it possible there are quite number of people who just don't want go to GC, Don't they even have this right?

No, unfortunately you don't have that right cause this is a competitive game mode and a lot of people who forfeit do it so they can get easier matchups and get to 450k points easily (which IS unfair play unless you're incredibly entitled), not because they don't want to be in GC. If you wanna blame anyone though then blame the players who abused this last time we had extra milestones, not Kabam.

But it's because of the system Kabam designed that this farming is even a thing.

To be clear, I'm not in favor of farming points in the VT but I do think it's ridiculous that they're threatening bans for people who are taking the path of least resistance to get their 450k when it's within the design of the content they created. I'd agree it's somewhat unsportsmanlike or against the spirit of the game mode, but the solution should be to fix the problem they created in the first place.

Either, as others have suggested, have wins in higher tiers contribute more points toward the milestones or some other tweak that incentives people to move on.

No it's not, I got to 450k easily last time without farming and I wasn't even Paragon yet.

It may be within the design yes, they probably have their reasons for not removing the forfeit option but if they decide it's against the rules then it's against the rules and there's a very good reason for it.

I agree though, GC should give more points for each win as it is a lot more challenging.