Some non-rant/constructive feedback for the devs (maybe)

Pretty please, with sugar and sprinkles on top.. stop slapping a Heal Block, the removal of the WP Mastery (Photon, Dust, etc.) or a node that actually removes 1/4 of your health at the start of the fight for being immune to a debuff as a means to make a champion or fight design "work"

It's out of control.. the lack of creativity or effort to find a way to balance a fight or champion that doesn't severely punish (or even make a solo literally impossible) for all your players who use and enjoy the Recoil Mastery Tree

The Heal Block is already bad enough, but then we have to take a burst of damage just for entering the fight if we shrug or are immune to our *own* debuffs?

Masteries are something we've invested in and they are supposed to be optional for the player to choose how to build and use them.. that lack of consideration for this is getting frustrating
WP has always been a key part of this build for years and years and we've invested in it, but now champs can just turn it off with a line written into their kit or nodes can just turn it off or even remove 25% health just for entering the fight - there's absolutely another way to design these champs or fights imo

Of course I understand *why* you are implementing these design choices.. it's to mitigate excessive healing from defenders who throw a lot of debuffs (and in the case of the node that makes us take a burst of damage on top of having our WP stripped it's to limit the pool of attackers (shrug champs) in the SOS fight.. I'm just saying we are tired of it and a more creative solution to your design challenges is needed that doesn't make *your* design challenge *our* problem

Ok.. so maybe a polite..rant? 😅

Comments

captain_rogers

I have no idea why onslaught turns willpower? He is already a headache of a defender. His ability to turn off willpower is unnecessary. Same for dust.

I understand the case of photon, But onslaught and dust are unnecessary.

This fight, I understand the nodes on why annihilus turns off willpower, Otherwise The fight would be much easier with constant healing (try using serpent for the fight if you have, He is heal block immune and cheeses the fight) but the immunity node is just too much. I think no champ is immune to stifle anyways and his armor breaks aren't potent, They just wanted us to not use abs man/doom for this fight specifically at the last week using odin's synergies.

Average_Desi

I was struggling at the beginning but that fight is actually good. It's supposed to be a hard fight right? That's why they can't have you just ignoring all the nodes.

Once you know how to punish the sp1, it's not a terrible fight. Yoy can get into a rhythm

hungryhungrybbq

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"

willrun4adonut

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"

Or you just nuke him down before you die from suicides.

Herbal_Taxman

I think this is completely on point. The WP removal is annoying enough; the turning off of dexterity is even worse, in my mind. I sympathize with the designers — we are headed toward 300 unique champs in the game — but messing with our masteries feels like a cutting corners approach that will only get worse if it continues to be the design strategy.

hungryhungrybbq

I think this is completely on point. The WP removal is annoying enough; the turning off of dexterity is even worse, in my mind. I sympathize with the designers — we are headed toward 300 unique champs in the game — but messing with our masteries feels like a cutting corners approach that will only get worse if it continues to be the design strategy.

So, I do understand the desire to mitigate the excessive healing in some cases where there are constant non-damaging debuffs, I get it.. I'm simply suggesting there's gotta be a way to do it with using a blanket solution of removing WP or adding Heal Block.. punishing players who have their own damaging debuffs active (DE and LC) in the process.. can we not just make it so that debuffs from a node or a defender don't interact with WP? As opposed to turning the mastery off? Like, someone(s) had to code that? The ability for a champion to turn off its opponents WP for example.. couldn't it have instead been coded to not interact with WP?

In the latter case.. the node or champion (defender) is only altering its own kit.. vs actually altering the Mastery of the player

hungryhungrybbq

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"
Or you just nuke him down before you die from suicides.

It may be possible.. not sure yet, currently trying with an R1 Gamora, but if you have footage of a solo with Recoils on, please post
An alliance mate of mine did it, but he used Serpent who is immune to Heal Block:)

hungryhungrybbq

I have a feeling some of the disagrees to the OP are because they think I'm suggesting we be allowed free healing.. I'm not, I'm suggesting we find a more fair way (to those running Recoils) to make it happen

hungryhungrybbq

I was struggling at the beginning but that fight is actually good. It's supposed to be a hard fight right? That's why they can't have you just ignoring all the nodes.

Once you know how to punish the sp1, it's not a terrible fight. Yoy can get into a rhythm

Lol.. wasn't talking about any of the mechanics of the fight.. the fight is completely fine, not sure why you said that

Nightheart

If Photon didn't disable willpower it would have made her too powerful you would instantly die from her debuffs. Just realize that many of your opponents will run despair and that will be the death of your champions.

VABBI2003

If Photon didn't disable willpower it would have made her too powerful you would instantly die from her debuffs. Just realize that many of your opponents will run despair and that will be the death of your champions.

Despair cannot reverse healing. It can at max reduce it my 105% at 7 debuffs at max rank which is a meagre reversal and nothing like instantly dying from her debuffs

captain_rogers

If Photon didn't disable willpower it would have made her too powerful you would instantly die from her debuffs. Just realize that many of your opponents will run despair and that will be the death of your champions.
Despair cannot reverse healing. It can at max reduce it my 105% at 7 debuffs at max rank which is a meagre reversal and nothing like instantly dying from her debuffs

But whenever she applies debuffs she applies a 1 second 80% petrify, so it will easy reverse your regen.

Nightheart

Also coming back to post Onslaught doesn't turn off your willpower immediately unless you get a daunted passive on you like how Warlock can with his infections. Do not parry him at all I just got used to fighting him ever since Spring of Sorrow lol...and Dust shes super annoying she can shut off willpower right at the start of the fight so fighting her and Photon with suicides is death sentence unless you use champs with immunities... to fight Dust use champs with incinerate and plasma that's her weakness

DrZola

Next up: willpower removal immunity champs.

Dr. Zola

WednesdayLength

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"

This is already a thing. Personal debuffs are debuffs applied by a champions abilities and personal buffs are the same

Emilia90

I think this is completely on point. The WP removal is annoying enough; the turning off of dexterity is even worse, in my mind. I sympathize with the designers — we are headed toward 300 unique champs in the game — but messing with our masteries feels like a cutting corners approach that will only get worse if it continues to be the design strategy.

I kinda agree with the dex bypassing part, but not the WP one. Dust and Photon have a lot of counters and Onslaught only turns off WP if you parry him so you can actually heal from his crushed if you just intercept. Serpent is the worst offender, but the others are fine. At least serpent doesn’t turn off WP too cause you can heal from fear

willrun4adonut

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"
Or you just nuke him down before you die from suicides.
It may be possible.. not sure yet, currently trying with an R1 Gamora, but if you have footage of a solo with Recoils on, please post
An alliance mate of mine did it, but he used Serpent who is immune to Heal Block:)

I was thinking of just Storm. I had to turn off suicides for Vox and Gamora.

Vegeta9001

Everytime I fight dust I get some real Anakin Skywalker vibes.

hungryhungrybbq

If Photon didn't disable willpower it would have made her too powerful you would instantly die from her debuffs. Just realize that many of your opponents will run despair and that will be the death of your champions.

I still feel my point is being missed.. I understand something had to be done, what I'm suggesting is instead of disabling the opponents WP.. make these champions debuffs not interact with the Mastery to begin with

hungryhungrybbq

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"
This is already a thing. Personal debuffs are debuffs applied by a champions abilities and personal buffs are the same

Mostly what I'm referring to is Mastery applied debuffs.. I guess is a better way to say it? Such as Double Edge and Liquid Courage.. people who run these masteries and use WP to mitigate them (as it was advertised to do.. like, it was actually advertised and recommended specifically by the devs to use these masteries in conjunction with each other) are not being considered when these design decisions are being made to remove WP, place a Heal Block on a fight or take burst damage for being immune to your own mastery debuffs

Yes! Never disagreed that excessive healing needs to be addressed, but why does it have to be at the detriment of players who choose to use the Recoil tree?

hungryhungrybbq

But yeah.. for sure this fight is a prime example of this design trend

Find a way to differentiate between self applied debuffs (DE/LC for example) and champion and node debuffs?

The SOS fight is funny because if you wanted to do the fight with a Recoil build your options are to die or die lol - choose an attacker without immunity and die from from the removal of WP over time.. or enter with immunities and also die from burst damage? 🙃
"I guess I'll just die then?"
Or you just nuke him down before you die from suicides.
It may be possible.. not sure yet, currently trying with an R1 Gamora, but if you have footage of a solo with Recoils on, please post
An alliance mate of mine did it, but he used Serpent who is immune to Heal Block:)
I was thinking of just Storm. I had to turn off suicides for Vox and Gamora.

Yeah, it's 70 units a pop to change though because literally.. I'm not using my non-Recoil build for anything else except AW def lol.. so I immediately need to swap back after the fight(s)

hungryhungrybbq

As for Photon specifically, my go to attacker is Warlock.. so luckily for me in this scenario WP/DE and LC are a non factor:)
It's more the design philosophy that bothers me on her and in general

hungryhungrybbq

Just an update.. Fun fight actually, I wanted to give positive feedback on the fight itself.. seems nicely tuned - tricky beginning, potentially difficult filters, but totally fun once established with a good start to the fight

I finally gave in and swapped loadouts 🙃 My only complaint was I like to feel like I have a choice in the matter and was asking for design consideration for players using Recoil in the future.. thanks for reading!

https://youtu.be/V6dzUs9rDnU?si=Jct14kAaaxEdhovf