Deep Dive: Patriot

EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
in General Discussion
https://youtu.be/4yDt9os0pjk?si=IsogtsDsmz0jlQMm

Thoughts?
«1

Comments

  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    Very cool utility, love that they learned from sinister and made him reduce inequity, and he seems to have good damage too. I think you could shorten the rotation for battlegrounds
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,607 ★★★★★
    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    edited July 2024
    Emilia90 said:

    Very cool utility, love that they learned from sinister and made him reduce inequity, and he seems to have good damage too. I think you could shorten the rotation for battlegrounds

    Like maybe go straight to sp2 instead of one sp1 then sp2?
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 11,675 ★★★★★
    He seems to reduce weakness effect potency ( first champ to do it ig), Problem is many nodes reduce attackers damage via weakness (nodes like ancient knowledge) I wonder will he be able bypassit?
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    I don’t think you need his full rotation for a short BGs fight. If the opponent is tankier than maybe
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    He seems to reduce weakness effect potency ( first champ to do it ig), Problem is many nodes reduce attackers damage via weakness (nodes like ancient knowledge) I wonder will he be able bypassit?

    Long distance relationship also he might be a great option for.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    Also while he may be a hard Photon counter, it looks like he’s a terrible Void counter because of the debuffs he inflicts on himself
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,607 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,607 ★★★★★
    edited July 2024
    EdisonLaw said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    I don’t think you need his full rotation for a short BGs fight. If the opponent is tankier than maybe
    Hopefully that is the case, we could use some good attackers from 2024
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Yeah. I think there’s potential if you can forgo the sp1. He seems like he could be the first great attacker
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    DDHK finally got re-buffed

    He definitely has some similarities except he cannot purify
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Yeah. I think there’s potential if you can forgo the sp1. He seems like he could be the first great attacker
    He also looks like a solid defender with the reversal mechanic. How do we counter it besides heavy attacks?
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    DLL designed him as expected and he has a breakdown vid. I don’t think patriot will disappoint
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,464 ★★★★★
    I'm actually really excited now, the damage looks crazy good, I think the issue with the rotation showcase is they pulled another Silk unfortunately and made the damage look not as good as it actually is.

    That Hulk has 86k rating with class disadvantage, this means the rating is probably somewhere around 90k which means healthpool must be similar to a 8.4.6 healthpool which is roughly about 540k-600k. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is not bad at all for a healthpool that size, if this was a BGs fight with the biggest r3 healthpool being about 350k then sp1 sp2 will absolutely nuke anything in BGs.
    I think he's going to be the best attacker this year hands down, crazy utility and really good damage. Only downside I can see so far is he really needs at least one awakening as a 7* and the 6* will probably need sig 200 but if the damage is as nuts as I think it will be, it'll be worth sig 200 dust as a 6*.
    @Emilia90 fingers crossed, I have joined the hype train lol
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    I'm actually really excited now, the damage looks crazy good, I think the issue with the rotation showcase is they pulled another Silk unfortunately and made the damage look not as good as it actually is.

    That Hulk has 86k rating with class disadvantage, this means the rating is probably somewhere around 90k which means healthpool must be similar to a 8.4.6 healthpool which is roughly about 540k-600k. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is not bad at all for a healthpool that size, if this was a BGs fight with the biggest r3 healthpool being about 350k then sp1 sp2 will absolutely nuke anything in BGs.
    I think he's going to be the best attacker this year hands down, crazy utility and really good damage. Only downside I can see so far is he really needs at least one awakening as a 7* and the 6* will probably need sig 200 but if the damage is as nuts as I think it will be, it'll be worth sig 200 dust as a 6*.
    @Emilia90 fingers crossed, I have joined the hype train lol

    DLL said max sig isn’t required though, but he already has the steadfast at sig one.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,464 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    I'm actually really excited now, the damage looks crazy good, I think the issue with the rotation showcase is they pulled another Silk unfortunately and made the damage look not as good as it actually is.

    That Hulk has 86k rating with class disadvantage, this means the rating is probably somewhere around 90k which means healthpool must be similar to a 8.4.6 healthpool which is roughly about 540k-600k. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is not bad at all for a healthpool that size, if this was a BGs fight with the biggest r3 healthpool being about 350k then sp1 sp2 will absolutely nuke anything in BGs.
    I think he's going to be the best attacker this year hands down, crazy utility and really good damage. Only downside I can see so far is he really needs at least one awakening as a 7* and the 6* will probably need sig 200 but if the damage is as nuts as I think it will be, it'll be worth sig 200 dust as a 6*.
    @Emilia90 fingers crossed, I have joined the hype train lol

    DLL said max sig isn’t required though, but he already has the steadfast at sig one.
    For the 6*, I think you will need it. 7* one dupe will be enough cause of stat focus but 6* I would sig 200 personally.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,464 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    So in a shorter fight then one sp2 should do the job?
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,464 ★★★★★
    edited July 2024
    EdisonLaw said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    So in a shorter fight then one sp2 should do the job?
    No you probably still need the sp1, but for BGs I bet sp1 sp2 will seal the deal 90% of the time.
    Edit: for matchups with a lot of not-dot debuffs straight to sp2 though, yeah.
  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,607 ★★★★★
    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    Does he actually hard counter most of the hard science defenders beside Photon? He's terrible for Void because of the amount of debuffs he stacks on himself, he isn't poison immune so can't deal with Ibom, He doesn't have cleanse so cannot counter Jessica that well, etc. Negasonic actually does counter every single skill champ you can think of.
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,833 ★★★★
    See you in 6-9 months.
  • 13579rebel_13579rebel_ Member Posts: 2,882 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    Negasonic actually does counter every single skill champ you can think of.
    Night Thrasher 💀
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    I’ll wait of course but I’m thinking he’ll be great. I asked DLL and he thinks that sp1 into sp2 should rip through most champs. I’ll put my faith in him, especially since patriot is designed to be a good attacker and not a defender. I think he’s the designer I trust most when it comes to meeting their goals
  • Emilia90Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,716 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    Does he actually hard counter most of the hard science defenders beside Photon? He's terrible for Void because of the amount of debuffs he stacks on himself, he isn't poison immune so can't deal with Ibom, He doesn't have cleanse so cannot counter Jessica that well, etc. Negasonic actually does counter every single skill champ you can think of.
    No one places void on defense anymore and Ibom isn’t relevant as a defender either. Photon is easily the most meta science champ as a defender
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,654 ★★★★★
    13579rebel_ said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    Negasonic actually does counter every single skill champ you can think of.
    Night Thrasher 💀
    Yeah but Negasonic turns off true accuracy from skill champs correct?

  • Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Member Posts: 2,607 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    Emilia90 said:

    Nemesis_17 said:

    So he’ll counter photon and be an alright defender. He seems too slow on attack for matchups that aren’t ideal. Idk I can live without him.

    He seems like he’ll be good for other matchups because he can self inflict debuffs for attack. He’s also sustainable like KP but actually reduces inequity so he seems like he’ll be a good attacker imo
    Maybe. Im not sold on speed yet, everything else seems solid. I think we’ll have to just get our hands on him and test him for bgs healthpools so I can make a more fair judgement.
    Keep in mind that Hulk in the rotation must've been about 570k health or somewhere around that number. Sp1 sp2 sp1 is actually really good for a healthpool that big, if that was a 300k r3 Hulk in BGs or something that sp2 would've probably been overkill.
    There’s a few things to realize though:

    1: Yes that was a big ihulk, but keep in mind that was also a very big patriot. 38k pi is not typical for a 7* r2 skill champ even with class advantage. My guess is that’s a rank 3 sig 20. Maybe it’s an r2 if he’s high sig but I don’t think that’s the case. A fully maxed out 6* is not gonna look as good as this, and it looks like the 7* will ideally want to be duped which is not the easiest thing to do.

    2: Class advantage is helping out with the damage in that fight. I think he’s gonna be good vs science champs especially ones that can ramp him faster, but in a vanilla matchup I don’t see anything special.

    3: He has to build to at least 7 resolve but ideally more for this rotation to work. Without a champ who ramps him faster than normal he won’t be able to skip the sp1 straight to sp2, as he won’t have enough charges for the retaliate knockdown thingy I forgot the name of. He also got to almost an sp3 against ihulk after using the sp1. So he basically built 4 bars of power before the damage payoff rather than the 3 it takes for most other attackers.

    I don’t think he’s bad but I don’t think he’s great. My best comparison is that he’s like a skill negasonic, punishing science champs and hard countering the top science defenders, but outside of that won’t have much use in bgs specifically. I don’t think he’ll be fast enough nuke photons in one sp2 unless he has rank advantage. He’ll probably need an additional sp1 against even ranks.

    I think he’ll be quite nice for aw with that steadfast and constant regen. He also might be the new safest photon counter in the game, and will be valuable in somewhat less competitive tiers of bgs where you can afford to be a little bit slower for the sake of being safe. Not a bad champ at all imo, he’ll have his place in the meta, but I don’t think he’s the attacker that redeems the previous 2024 attackers.
    Does he actually hard counter most of the hard science defenders beside Photon? He's terrible for Void because of the amount of debuffs he stacks on himself, he isn't poison immune so can't deal with Ibom, He doesn't have cleanse so cannot counter Jessica that well, etc. Negasonic actually does counter every single skill champ you can think of.
    That’s a pretty fair point actually lol. He’ll be good for quicksilver and spot since they let him ramp up a bit faster, but those 2 aren’t exactly the most common defenders out there. I guess Titania and hulk too if they get placed on defense, but they’ll be used on attack much more often than defense. We’ll see how he ages, but yea photon is definitely his main selling point.
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