Why no 5/5 Attackers.

I don’t even think they necessarily need to be 5/5s, just like I don’t think every new defender should be a 5/5. But yea there’s been quite the imbalance lately. Last year we had champs like Kushala, Wolf, Adam, silk, shocker, fam, Kate, abs man.

We’re 2/3 of the way through this year and the only meta attackers we have are prowler, bill and white tiger. Thankfully we had some good champ reworks this year which have helped out, but the champ releases are lacking.

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ItsClobberinTime

It's sad cause I'd argue even those three aren't meta relevant in BGs, they're 4/5 for sure but they're still not the best at what they do.
Hopefully next year it starts to get better, I'd assume next year is when we will see true hard counters to all the 5/5 defenders we've received this year and I don't mean Negasonic vs Bullseye or Patriot vs Photon where it still takes 55 seconds lol I mean something more like ID vs Bishop or Galan vs Peni, I'd be very surprised if they don't.

JT_Supreme

You answered your own question.

Wicket329

Worth noting that there isn’t a measure of “5/5 attacker.” The categories are damage, utility, survivability, ease of use, and defensive strength.

Four of those categories go into making a good attacker. Not just damage. For example, Proxima Midnight would be a 5/5 for damage. But because her other three categories aren’t great, people ignore her. People like Herc and Kitty because they have high marks across all four of those categories, not just damage. They’re easy pick up and play champs with high damage output and insane sustainability. And as somebody else in this thread mentioned, they aren’t really go-tos in BGs because most of what made them so OP in the past was ease of use and sustainability over there actual damage output.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t ask for better attackers. I agree, the champs this year have been pretty lackluster on offense compared to defense. But I’d just say make your ask more specific. Do you want attackers to have more damage? More utility? Easier to pick up and play? What exactly is missing in champ design this year? That’s the feedback we should be giving to Kabam. That’s how we get what we’re looking for.

captain_rogers

You're technically right, but everyone here is getting OP'ss point Ig, we want good champs like abs man,fam, kate, shocker, adam, silk, photon, kushala and onslaught. And none of the champs released this year is close to these guys. That's our complaint

Beta Ray Bill is 5/5.

captain_rogers

Yeah I honeslty believe he is the only 5/5 released this here purely in context of bg attack. Still he sucks against the big 5 (Onlaught, serpent, photon, bullseye, Maestro). He can do tech meta defenders like fam, rskull and guardian in 30 secs so I'll give him that. He is also the only champ who can solo FAM boss in necropolis (Literally the only champ in necropolis I believe who doesn't had a direct solo counter).

Most likely that’s gonna happen. It’s been nearly a year already and we still don’t have a hard counter to Onslaught yet. I’m guessing Shathra will be another Serpent counter

Serpent can solo him probably, he’s literally designed for those kinds of fights, especially against FAM

captain_rogers

Onslaught isn't the kind of champ who we see any hard counter. Terrax has unavoidable damage, but there's a ton of champs who can nuke him at high health. Still there aren't any who completely avoid his damage (Except namor maybe?) That's how onslaught gonna end as well. Maybe we'll see more counters for him, but no neuroshock immune champ or something, unless neuroschock becomes a more common DOT.

I think they’re good enough to be meta relevant, (which I basically define as worth putting in your deck in most metas) but they definitely aren’t 5/5s. The only one who I think is a 5/5 attacker out of everyone I mentioned is Kate. Maybe abs too from a more overall standpoint and not bgs specifically.

I do agree that I’d expect some hard counters to the tough defenders by next year. I don’t think it’ll be as bad as Galan vs peni, as DLL has said that now with hindsight they went a little too far with hard countering her. Definitely not like negasonic vs bullseye tho lmao. Maybe closer to Guardian vs Domino, or Hulkling vs Fam. Someone who shuts off the key annoying mechanics while also not being slower than 45s.

We might see more neuroshock champions, and they don't have to be mutants. Same with rupture, back then Tigra was the only champ with rupture but over time we had more rupture champs and then we had rupture immune champs like Scorp and Spiderpunk

That's probably what most players want, new nuke champions, champs that can do 30-40 sec fights. We are all damage simps

The day y'all will accept that what makes a champion great is how many matchups and nodes they can take with quickness, sustainability and ease etc and not if they're able to take out the "BIG 5" defenders, is the day y'all will finally find peace with some of these new champions. If you continue to reason like this then y'all will never be satisfied. BRB is DEFINITELY the best champion we've gotten this year but it seems the great damage that you've all been asking for is not even enough. He has the utility too so don't even start that ****. And don't even bring up the fact that he relies on shock because newsflash DON'T USE HIM WHEN THE OPPONENT IS IMMUNE TO SHOCK
Problem solved

Plus shock immunity isn't even that common compared to like bleed and poison immunity. Plus his shocks are passive so they work against purify/cleanse as well

I get so sick when I see such comments
"He's a noodle against shock immune" etc NO SHIIII...
Kabam does not owe us anything by not giving a champion more than one source of damage and I'm sick of how the community has started to demand that from them. It totally makes DOT champs seem useless because they can't take EVERY MATCHUP. Because if BRB was a 5/5 defender and his base damage source was shock and you couldn't just bring a shock immune because he'd be able switch to a random other DOT source, the community would be calling him "OVERTUNED". For example the TB EQ where even bringing a shock immune would punish you

Emilia90

I agree, they’ve made a consistent effort this year to make the most mediocre attackers. Idk why they decided to make such a fantastic year of champs and follow it up with the most disappointing

I do disagree with the drain on resources part for most of these though. Enchantress, Maestro, and Onslaught have plenty of counters already. Onslaught can be done by like 90% of a standard bg deck, maestro can be done by like anyone in the mystic class, and Enchantress can be done by literally anyone

In Kabam's view,

Also, disclaimer I am not claiming to know KABAMS THOUGHT PROCESS WHEN DESIGNING these champions. I do not know how to design a game,this is just what I think is one of the reasons for the noticable shift in champions damage output

I think no champion going forward will have satisfactory damage unless kabam is trying so hard to make them 5/5 take BRB for example. He was advertised as a 5/5 attacker from the start because that was the goal. If kabam tried to make a 4/5 of good attacker but don't focus too much on the damage then it'll not be "GOOD ENOUGH". I'll tell you why...
It's the r3's every deep dive we're shown the damage of r3's when designing I do think they carefully scale the damage of these champions to their r3 potential. They carefully consider the cap of the damage of the champion that every other rank is almost dreadful. If kabam were to make a 3/5 attacker they'd most likely be a 3/5 at r3 because that is the highest they can go and that is what kabam carefully thought of when designing. That is why you notice a HUGE gap between the damage now and the damage when the max you could go was 6*r4/5. A 4/5 back in 2023 and before would hit harder than a 4/5 now if they were granted the r3 upgrade because time has changed and so has the cap of these champions.Take white tiger for example, she's not impressive offensively unfortunately when she isn't r2/3, she's supposed to be a 4/5 but if you take into consideration someone random like Dani moonstar who is also a 4/5 and was released when it was incredibly rare to get a r3 you'd notice such a huge difference in damage (when Dani crits at least lol). Same goes for random champs like silk and Titania who are also 4/5. Kabam had to make champs like Dani and silk hit hard even tho 7* r3 were available because it was not as easy to get them to that rank and people were mostly ranking up the 6*. So kabam had to design them and carefully think about their damage as 6*'s this is why you can really feel the damage when you rank them up as 7 stars. Unlike these new champions who need the 7* r3 to satisfy the urge in which a 6* usually would back then

ItsClobberinTime

Oh then yeah that's different, for me meta relevant means basically 90% of the playerbase uses them consistently in BGs. I definitely think all three are worth having in your deck, just don't see them that often.

Yeah Galan vs Peni was just unfair, I do hope they don't do that again. Hulkling vs FAM or Guardian vs Domino would definitely be much better and healthy for the game on the long run, there should still be a few small things you have to play around.

Also Wiccan vs Hulkling to be fair (though they were released the same month). Now that's a domestic disturbance

I see what you’re saying. We obviously don’t know for sure if that’s the case but it would be an explanation for the lackluster damage on so many champs. I feel like kabam would be aware of this though, it hardly seems like something that would slip under their radar. A duped 7* r3 is hardly realistic even for top end players. An unduped or sig 20 r2 would be much better for the sake of testing.

I will defend white tiger tho. As the owner of an r2 she very much so represents a 4/5 in damage, even slightly better. Her battlegrounds rotation which takes 45-50s it covers enough ground to take down equal rank sassys. (Probably works for sassy one rank higher too but I haven’t tested it) She’s not a champ who has to punch down or have class advantage to do fights at a good time. I do think your point applies to other champs tho, like negasonic, patriot, ironheart, etc.

Sunstar19

Disagree on Enchantress and Onslaught. My litmus test is whether one can fight a champ in arenas quickly and easily using basic skills. Most champs you can do that. For Onslaught and Enchantress they fall into my category where losing an arena fight is more than 50% chance if you don’t know their unique mechanics. Onslaught, dexing SP1 is key to not losing. Enchantress, knowing what icons stand for and actions to disable is key to not losing.

Nightheart

We do have 2 5/5 attackers one is Beta Ray Bill and second is Superior Ironman buff this year but I do agree with your points. For me the most bs defender is Serpent he is straight up unfair Onslaught, Bullseye, photos, dust and even enchantress is more manageable.

Yeah exactly. The main annoying mechanics should be countered well, (especially if there’s any unavoidable damage as that can’t be countered by skilled play) but more minor things should be left to pay attention to. The goal is not to make the defender a completely vanilla fight.

For example I think a hard counter to serpent would be someone who counters his death immunity 100% of the time, and manages the chip damage from his specials. Still have to deal with things like the first hit of his specials being unblockable, or his more minor power gain buffs, but the big tricky mechanics are out of the way.