Kingpin Tenacity Bugged Against AA?

AA should be able to eliminate all tenacity after stacking 4 bleeds. However, I fought Kingpin in Modok Uncollected quest and he was shrugging off poisons even with 4 bleeds active. While AA’s description specifically uses the word “tenacity,” I assumed this would apply to CB and KP as well

Comments

belli300

Kp Does not shrug off bunch he converts them

Magrailothos

I asked about this in Kingpin's spotlight and (big surprise!) didn't get an answer. My observation is that Agent venom is the only champion described as having tenacity. Others (Kingpin, King Groot, Crossbones) who shrug off or convert buffs aren't described as having tenacity, so presumably don't. Presumably AAs ability accuracy reduction will work though, and prevent him gaining Fury and Unstoppable buffs.

Archangel's ability to reduce Tenacity therefore appears to be a specific counter to Agent Venom; for now. It's possible other characters with Tenacity will be introduced. If they ever get the servers working again.

Batty_Numppo

You mean Kabam introduced a champion with an ability that only counters one other character in the game? That is SO unlike them!

taojay1

I want to add that the Collector has tenacity, so technically there are two champs with it

Maverick

Well.. mephisto was introduced to counter iceman specifically.. coldsnap and frostbite immunity..

Scottryan

He doesnt have tenacity

Batty_Numppo

Maverick wrote: »

Well.. mephisto was introduced to counter iceman specifically.. coldsnap and frostbite immunity..

I guess my sarcasm didn’t transmit

Dakine86

His bleeds inhibit nothing on any champ. Neurotoxin does.

at0m

What @Dakine86 said. Ability accuracy reduction only works with a duped AA and that too only after Neurotoxin is applied.
Getting 4 bleeds and then poisons don’t inflict a NT charge, so, Kingpin is not bugged if he’s shrugging off debuffs into rage while not under the influence of Neurotoxin from a duped AA.

Batty_Numppo

at0m wrote: »

What @Dakine86 said. Ability accuracy reduction only works with a duped AA and that too only after Neurotoxin is applied.
Getting 4 bleeds and then poisons don’t inflict a NT charge, so, Kingpin is not bugged if he’s shrugging off debuffs into rage while not under the influence of Neurotoxin from a duped AA.

Wrong. Read AA’s description. Same place where it says his bleeds increase chance to poison by 25%, it then says it reduces the chance for an opponent’s tenacity to trigger by the same. The problem here is most likely what others have said: converting debuffs into other things, like CB and KP do, is not considered tenacity.

Dakine86

Batty_Numppo wrote: »

at0m wrote: »

What @Dakine86 said. Ability accuracy reduction only works with a duped AA and that too only after Neurotoxin is applied.
Getting 4 bleeds and then poisons don’t inflict a NT charge, so, Kingpin is not bugged if he’s shrugging off debuffs into rage while not under the influence of Neurotoxin from a duped AA.

Wrong. Read AA’s description. Same place where it says his bleeds increase chance to poison by 25%, it then says it reduces the chance for an opponent’s tenacity to trigger by the same. The problem here is most likely what others have said: converting debuffs into other things, like CB and KP do, is not considered tenacity.

Well aware of what it says. Clearly you're unfamiliar with how AA actually works.

Seiric

Would it be possible to have a moderator confirm that Kingpin's ability is NOT considered a tenacity based ability, and then list the characters that ARE tenacity users please? I have found a lot of contradictory information, all player based, so unconfirmed assessments. As an avid user of AA, I found KP's ability to fall under the realm of tenacity, as it is specifically a debuff removal, similar to AV. His bleeds alone should be preventing this at 4 stacks. I have also had his effect occur while under 3 neurotoxins (sig 200 5r5 AA; 40% ability reduction per NT), where it clearly should not have. KP's abilities seem to bypass AA's into his own real of chance for debuff removal.

Clarification would be greatly appreciated please. Thank you!

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Valkyrie @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Loto

Dexman1349

@Seiric As someone who uses both AA and KP regularly, I don't think you fully understand the dynamic between the two.

First off, AA's bleeds do not do anything besides cause DOT. The AA's ability reduction only comes from his neurotoxins (his sig ability).

Second, KP does not have tenacity like AV. He has a % chance to convert any debuff to a Rage charge. This is more like XBones being able to convert debuffs to Fury.

Additionally, KP's ability reads: "Each debuff and rage on KP only strengthens his resolve, increasing attack by XXX and power gain rate by 5%" So even if he doesn't convert the debuff to rage, KP still gets a boost to his attack.

The only thing KP cannot convert that AA inflicts are the neurotoxins since they are a passive ability. Bleed and poison are both active and can be converted.

Dexman1349

I should also add that I do agree that once AA has 3+ stacks of Neurotoxin, he should be blocking all of KP's abilities.

TKS87

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this for everyone saying 'Bleed doesn't reduce tenacity its only neurotoxins you obviously don't know how AA actually works'

You guys are right in saying neurotoxins are the only way to get ABILITY ACCURACY REDUCTION. That, however is different then reducing specifically tenacity. Please read character bios before spitting out other people don't know how champs work.

In regards to kingpin, I've always wondered this but the only way I've been able to stop him converting debuffs away is to get the ability accuracy reduction from the neurotoxins. I believe that what was stated earlier, because it's not specifically tenacity to shrug off, but to convert it into rage, is the reason his Bleed does not reduce this particular ability.

Batty_Numppo

Thanks @TKS87 , I should have put up a SS of his bio from the very start since so many “regular users” of AA don’t know about his tenacity counter.

Magrailothos

Batty_Numppo wrote: »

Thanks @TKS87 , I should have put up a SS of his bio from the very start since so many “regular users” of AA don’t know about his tenacity counter.

Agreed. I still reckon that Agent Venom and the Collector are the only champions with actual 'Tenacity', as when they shrug off debuffs, a little 'Tenacity' callsign flashes up, and that doesn't happen with anyone else.

V1PER1987

It’s very important to understand the difference in abilities. If you look at Agent Venom’s abilities, he actually has Tenacity. KP has rage which is basically just a debuff converter which is different. It’s sad how much misinformation is being spread in this thread.

Epsilon3

Does anyone realize that Bleed is said to effect chance to poison AND reduction of tenacity by the same %? Like he’s CLEARLY designed to be an all out debuffer that’s doesn’t care if you shrug it off cause you can’t

Tenacity DOES say he shrugs it off making any other shrugging seem like it should fall under tenacity (unless they are passive tenacity cause we ALL know Kabam loves the “passive” loophole

KillerRino19

nice

Spidermonkey902

Why is it when I see threads like these there are no mods who post or respond, is it in case what they say gets changed later on so no one is saying anything regarding how champs work? maybe kabam need to discuss this with all forum mods because us players deserve our questions answered being as they work for the company and therefore have access to all the information such as the answer to the question above please sort this we deserve answers kabam

Batty_Numppo

V1PER1987 wrote: »

It’s very important to understand the difference in abilities. If you look at Agent Venom’s abilities, he actually has Tenacity. KP has rage which is basically just a debuff converter which is different. It’s sad how much misinformation is being spread in this thread.

This brings me to my point - Kabam releases AA a year and a half ago with a bleed ability that only works against Agent Venom, and since then supposedly only also works against the Collector, a non playable character you only have to fight six times and eventually becomes bleed immune during the fight, too. It would be nice to see character abilities have a scope that is greater than just 1.

Seiric

Thank you @TKS87 for providing that screen shot (I should have done it too since it was already brought up once; my bad). It is not helpful for anyone finding answers if those trying to assist don't read into the details as fine as the ones we are trying to discuss.

@V1PER1987 Thanks for that! the definition of tenacity, as far as im aware, does not actually correlate to an ability set in any characters bio. take AV for example: his description has "Tenacity" , but nowhere in his ability description is the word tenacity used. He has two passive abilities, with no elaboration. As far as players have all surmised, "tenacity" is the shrugging off of debuffs. Proven testing of this has occurred from both AV and collector, using AA and seeing the differences. There are also other aspects of the game this works on, but I am focusing strictly on champions at the moment. I also believe this works on CB, but can't find a duped one to duel at the moment of writing this to confirm this again soundly (his ability is "hydra training" and is essentially the same as king pins at a lower rate, but adds fury).

However, (and this brings me more to the point of what I would like confirmed by moderators or the game team) where is the confirmed translation of this ability? "Rage" from Kingpin is broken down into two portions of the ability: The portion where a debuff can be removed, using the same mechanism as AV, CB, Captain America -CW (with a skill champion on his team; debuff removal rate of 100% at max sig), etc, and then the potion which gives him an actual counter identified as "Rage". These seem exclusive aspects of the ability, and from a coding standpoint, as two different variables.

In short: I have never seen any ability tied to "tenacity" directly (if I missed something, please feel free to tag me and show me here or on Line), yet we have determined the types of effects it prevents directly. As all the mentioned characters have the same concept of removing debuffs, with inconsistent responses, I would like an official confirmation in regards to EXACTLY what tenacity is, and how the mentioned characters bypass it with the same concept in their ability kit.

V1PER1987

@Seiric this is also specifically defined in battle. When you fight AV and The Collector and apply a debuff, if they shrug it off, “Tenacity” pops up. When fighting Crossbones and Kingpin, Tenacity does not pop up. It is in their ability list although it may not be called out directly in the ability detail. Not sure what else to say.