Sentry’s Persistence Charge Mechanic Deserves a Second Look

J0eySn0w

Sentry’s Reality Warp persistence charge system needs another look, in my opinion. Currently, he gains one charge when he wins a fight and loses one when he loses a fight, aside from the charges he builds up during the fight itself. At first glance, this seems fair, but in practice, I believe it creates an unfair disadvantage.

For example:
• Fight 1: You start with zero charges, ramp up to four, win the fight, and enter the next fight with five charges.
• Fight 2: You start with five charges, gain one more, win the fight, and now have seven for the next fight.
• Fight 3: You now face a difficult opponent requiring revives. If you die seven consecutive times, you lose all your charges and are back to zero.

This doesn’t seem right. All the effort put into previous fights can be completely undone by just one difficult matchup, making the mechanic feel unnecessarily punishing.

I believe a fairer approach would be that Sentry cannot lose persistent charges below the number he started a fight with. Any charges gained during a fight could be lost, but not the ones he initially entered with. For example:
• If Sentry enters a fight with five charges, ramps up to eight, and dies three times, he should still retain at least five charges.
• A fourth death should still keep him at five, preventing him from being completely reset due to one challenging encounter.

I think Kabam should seriously consider this adjustment. I’m not sure if his balance update has already been decided or if he even qualifies for one, but this mechanic deserves a second look. What do you guys think?

willrun4adonut

And if they ever do implement Thai, please also do it with Mojo.

Magrailothos

So, basically his current mechanic means that you can't simply revive relentlessly through difficult long-form content, getting progressively stronger; and essentially spending your way through any obstacle?

Maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't really see the problem.

J0eySn0w

Magrailothos said:

So, basically his current mechanic means that you can't simply revive relentlessly through difficult long-form content, getting progressively stronger; and essentially spending your way through any obstacle?

Maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't really see the problem.

That’s not what I’m saying. As I explained, he shouldn’t lose persistent charges below what he started the fight with. If you go into a fight with 3, ramp up to 6, you can still lose all but not the 3 you started the fight with.

TotemCorruption

I can think of one possible justification against such a change, but as a 7R3 Sentry owner I'm not going to offer it, so I fully support the proposal here.

J0eySn0w

TotemCorruption said:

I can think of one possible justification against such a change, but as a 7R3 Sentry owner I'm not going to offer it, so I fully support the proposal here.

I’m curious to know what you are thinking. What could justify losing all charges and every effort you put into in previous fights unrelated to the troubling fight?

Siliyo

You’re essentially asking to not be punished for planning properly. If you have 7 charges and get KO’d 7 times, you’d be back at 0 which makes sense.

Wicket329

J0eySn0w said:

TotemCorruption said:

I can think of one possible justification against such a change, but as a 7R3 Sentry owner I'm not going to offer it, so I fully support the proposal here.

I’m curious to know what you are thinking. What could justify losing all charges and every effort you put into in previous fights unrelated to the troubling fight?

Aegon is the comparison point. Aegon and healthy revive stash has been the counter to every piece of longform endgame content since his release (and sometimes even retroactively with Labyrinth) because he doesn’t ever lose progress. Once he’s banked his combo, you just smooth-brain face roll everything. I think that’s why Kabam introduced mechanics like we see on Sentry and other persistent charge champs so that you can’t just think happy thoughts and wish content was done.

OP, I get where you’re coming from with your suggestion, but the way your idea would work is that once Sentry hits his full ramp, he can’t lose it. An alternative suggestion would be to build a persistent charge floor into his sig ability. Say every 40 sig levels increases the floor that he can’t lose a charge at by 1, so that at sig 200 his floor becomes 5 charges. Any fights lost could not reduce his persistent charges below 5. I’m not sure such a change is necessary, but I think it’s a good middle ground between your suggestion and the current design.

PT_99

Sentry frogs just wants more more more,
Forever unsatisfied 🐸🐸

J0eySn0w

Siliyo said:

You’re essentially asking to not be punished for planning properly. If you have 7 charges and get KO’d 7 times, you’d be back at 0 which makes sense.

There’s punishment for losing in a fight. You lose charges, and you revive and heal. But losing charges unrelated to the fight in particular is unnecessary punishment. And the point I’m trying to make. And how does this have to do with planning properly. There are fights that are designed to force revives and resources like Ares. It takes several attempts before most players get used to it if they do. So for instance, if you used Sentry on a path, managed to build up 8 charges through revives, potions or skills, whatever! You can lose all charges in that one fight if you’re never able to ramp up any within that fight. How is that fair or reasonable.

Repto23

Ægon doesn’t lose charges from previous matches

WednesdayLength

Repto23 said:

Ægon doesn’t lose charges from previous matches

And it's clear that they don't want to repeat that

Siliyo

J0eySn0w said:

Siliyo said:

You’re essentially asking to not be punished for planning properly. If you have 7 charges and get KO’d 7 times, you’d be back at 0 which makes sense.

There’s punishment for losing in a fight. You lose charges, and you revive and heal. But losing charges unrelated to the fight in particular is unnecessary punishment. And the point I’m trying to make. And how does this have to do with planning properly. There are fights that are designed to force revives and resources like Ares. It takes several attempts before most players get used to it if they do. So for instance, if you used Sentry on a path, managed to build up 8 charges through revives, potions or skills, whatever! You can lose all charges in that one fight if you’re never able to ramp up any within that fight. How is that fair or reasonable.

So your only argument is that because you’re not used to Ares, you’ll lose your charges? Obviously if you’re fighting a new champion you won’t know the mechanics right away. Your one excuse for Sentry doesn’t make sense.

Will3808

There’s something you’re missing. I did my 10 year necropolis run with sentry, so I’ve got lots of experience. You want to cycle through all of sentry’s phases at the beginning of every fight, which builds your debuffs, damage, and gives you one charge. This means unless you die in the first 15 seconds of the fight, you will gain one charge. Any hard fight you do should net you 0 charges.

TheUglyone123

J0eySn0w said:

Siliyo said:

You’re essentially asking to not be punished for planning properly. If you have 7 charges and get KO’d 7 times, you’d be back at 0 which makes sense.

There’s punishment for losing in a fight. You lose charges, and you revive and heal. But losing charges unrelated to the fight in particular is unnecessary punishment. And the point I’m trying to make. And how does this have to do with planning properly. There are fights that are designed to force revives and resources like Ares. It takes several attempts before most players get used to it if they do. So for instance, if you used Sentry on a path, managed to build up 8 charges through revives, potions or skills, whatever! You can lose all charges in that one fight if you’re never able to ramp up any within that fight. How is that fair or reasonable.

I’ll say this as a R3 sentry owner, I think his persistent charges are fine. If you lose a fight, yes, you lose a charge. However, you can combat this by going through another loop during the fight. If you are losing a charge every single loss without gaining at least one charge by going through sentry’s rotation, you might need more practice with sentry

BigBlueOx

Magrailothos said:

So, basically his current mechanic means that you can't simply revive relentlessly through difficult long-form content, getting progressively stronger; and essentially spending your way through any obstacle?

Maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't really see the problem.

I mean if they want him to be used like Aegon it makes sense for him to have a similar mechanism.

Siliyo

Repto23 said:

Ægon doesn’t lose charges from previous matches

And Aegon was designed that way, intentionally back in 2018. Sentry’s rework and Wong, both intended for long form content, do not have consistent persistent charges like Aegon does.

Magrailothos

BigBlueOx said:

Magrailothos said:

So, basically his current mechanic means that you can't simply revive relentlessly through difficult long-form content, getting progressively stronger; and essentially spending your way through any obstacle?

Maybe I'm being naive here, but I don't really see the problem.

I mean if they want him to be used like Aegon it makes sense for him to have a similar mechanism.

I think they don't want him to be used like Aegon, which is precisely why this mechanic works the way it does.

I think they want him to be used in the same type of content as Aegon. But not in the same way: As Wednesday length says, I think they've learned their lesson...

JackTheSnack

I wouldn’t mind some sort of ramp up choice pre fight or something so he’s more usable in short form content. But I know he’s based as a long form content champ

J0eySn0w

Wicket329 said:

J0eySn0w said:

TotemCorruption said:

I can think of one possible justification against such a change, but as a 7R3 Sentry owner I'm not going to offer it, so I fully support the proposal here.

I’m curious to know what you are thinking. What could justify losing all charges and every effort you put into in previous fights unrelated to the troubling fight?

Aegon is the comparison point. Aegon and healthy revive stash has been the counter to every piece of longform endgame content since his release (and sometimes even retroactively with Labyrinth) because he doesn’t ever lose progress. Once he’s banked his combo, you just smooth-brain face roll everything. I think that’s why Kabam introduced mechanics like we see on Sentry and other persistent charge champs so that you can’t just think happy thoughts and wish content was done.

OP, I get where you’re coming from with your suggestion, but the way your idea would work is that once Sentry hits his full ramp, he can’t lose it. An alternative suggestion would be to build a persistent charge floor into his sig ability. Say every 40 sig levels increases the floor that he can’t lose a charge at by 1, so that at sig 200 his floor becomes 5 charges. Any fights lost could not reduce his persistent charges below 5. I’m not sure such a change is necessary, but I think it’s a good middle ground between your suggestion and the current design.

I ran Necropolis without Aegon, not even on a single path. Some used him, but it wasn’t necessarily cheaper—that’s why I didn’t. Those who did paid with a bunch of revives, whether through units, Odins, or whatever means. But some players will always spend their way through content. I know plenty who didn’t bother learning Ares’ specials and just threw revives at him.

Aegon’s design is simple—work hard, endure, and be rewarded. He starts slow, but as you build his combo, you need fewer revives, so the payoff feels earned. If we compare him to Sentry, then the same logic should apply.

Sentry also ramps up over multiple fights, sometimes needing abilities that take time to unlock. But one bad matchup can erase all progress. If you’ve used him in tough content, you’ve probably had to consider using a less-than-ideal champ just to avoid losing his progress. Aegon banks combos—easy to gain, easy to lose if hit. Sentry, though, takes more effort to ramp, going through loops that aren’t always feasible in certain matchups, yet he can lose it all just as easily if KO’d.

On your second point, I’m all for a change that stops him from losing charges below a certain threshold. But on second thought, Kabam probably doesn’t care about this topic, if I’m being honest. Even if it’s something they’d consider, it’s not happening anytime soon—it took them a year just to fix Ironheart’s bug.

WednesdayLength

J0eySn0w said:

Wicket329 said:

J0eySn0w said:

TotemCorruption said:

I can think of one possible justification against such a change, but as a 7R3 Sentry owner I'm not going to offer it, so I fully support the proposal here.

I’m curious to know what you are thinking. What could justify losing all charges and every effort you put into in previous fights unrelated to the troubling fight?

Aegon is the comparison point. Aegon and healthy revive stash has been the counter to every piece of longform endgame content since his release (and sometimes even retroactively with Labyrinth) because he doesn’t ever lose progress. Once he’s banked his combo, you just smooth-brain face roll everything. I think that’s why Kabam introduced mechanics like we see on Sentry and other persistent charge champs so that you can’t just think happy thoughts and wish content was done.

OP, I get where you’re coming from with your suggestion, but the way your idea would work is that once Sentry hits his full ramp, he can’t lose it. An alternative suggestion would be to build a persistent charge floor into his sig ability. Say every 40 sig levels increases the floor that he can’t lose a charge at by 1, so that at sig 200 his floor becomes 5 charges. Any fights lost could not reduce his persistent charges below 5. I’m not sure such a change is necessary, but I think it’s a good middle ground between your suggestion and the current design.

I ran Necropolis without Aegon, not even on a single path. Some used him, but it wasn’t necessarily cheaper—that’s why I didn’t. Those who did paid with a bunch of revives, whether through units, Odins, or whatever means. But some players will always spend their way through content. I know plenty who didn’t bother learning Ares’ specials and just threw revives at him.

Aegon’s design is simple—work hard, endure, and be rewarded. He starts slow, but as you build his combo, you need fewer revives, so the payoff feels earned. If we compare him to Sentry, then the same logic should apply.

Sentry also ramps up over multiple fights, sometimes needing abilities that take time to unlock. But one bad matchup can erase all progress. If you’ve used him in tough content, you’ve probably had to consider using a less-than-ideal champ just to avoid losing his progress. Aegon banks combos—easy to gain, easy to lose if hit. Sentry, though, takes more effort to ramp, going through loops that aren’t always feasible in certain matchups, yet he can lose it all just as easily if KO’d.

On your second point, I’m all for a change that stops him from losing charges below a certain threshold. But on second thought, Kabam probably doesn’t care about this topic, if I’m being honest. Even if it’s something they’d consider, it’s not happening anytime soon—it took them a year just to fix Ironheart’s bug.

The difference with aegon is that his ramp isn't exactly hard, you don't even have to play particularly well. You can just go completely crazy and hit as much as possible then quit out before you lose your combo and then you just have that ramp up forever. It's like hercules in that you don't have to worry as much about how you're playing because once you've got the ramp it's just going to keep getting better no matter how badly you play. It's just not the kind of ramp up that they want to include anymore, it's not like Aegon is recent he's from 7 years ago lmao.

altavista

While it would be nice to have, its not unfair to have him lose charges.

Different champions can gain charges within the match, some can only gain on completing the match. Some champions can't lose charges at all, some can lose charges within the match, some can only lose on completing the match. It’s simply a design choice where there are different trade offs.

G2099 loses all your work with one defeat. Spiderpunk loses all his Crowd with one loss. Mojo can lose five straight fights and start back at 0.

Heck, even Aegon can waste all your work - maintain a 300 hit combo all the way down to 1% health, get clipped, and lose all your work with nothing to show for it. Stryfe can lose all his carefully built up charges by getting clipped in the fight. Sentry has no way of losing his charge within the fight; only when he loses the match.