It's time to change Dexterity and it's interaction with Mystic Dispersion and Mystic Defenders

A lot of things in the game has changed since it was introduced in December 2014. Back then there was no masteries, no synergies, there was no crystal shards, 5 stars weren't in the game, etc, etc.

So what has changed to cause mystic champions to over run defense running 5/5 mystic dispersion?

This change happened after the buff to Magik. Do you guys remember Magik before her buff? She was horrible, one of the worst champions in the game. After her buff she would do unavoidable damage when she gets a bar of power. When you play Magik as an offensive champion limbo's damage acts as a damage over time effect, a nice addition but not the defining feature of her as an attacker.

However when Magik was placed on Defense her Limbo damage was amplified by the increased attack of the node. For instance; if she did 200 damage a tic on attack, she would do 400 with a 100% attack increase node. This created a meta in the game where Magik soon over ran the defenses of higher rated alliances.

What this caused was a situation where not fighting a champion could be better than fighting the champion, as you didn't want to give up any defender kills. As we are all aware we've gone through numerous changes to Alliance War in the last few months to try and rectify this situation, and we are almost right back to where we were.

Similarly, Dormammu cause degeneration on you when he is awakened and you have a buff expire. The buff from dexterity counts towards this, so Dormammu punishes you for not getting hit. Not to mention he had a longer hit box on his medium dash attack than other champions, so you could get caught by it even if you evaded. This has since been patched but it was still in the game for months. This is a problem already addressed by you, hence why the Dormammu in Alliance Quest is unawakened.

I would like to illiterate that you are being punished for evading Dormammu's special attacks. Since the buff from Dexterity refreshes several times when you evade a special attack, you will be given a new degeneration debuff. Also each one will give up to 12% power to Dormammu, giving him another special attack at best, and at worst giving him enough power to hit his special attack 3, which almost certainly will kill you (unless you are using a champion that can survive l3's, ie. awakened Gwenpool, Iceman, both Magneto's).

In Mephisto's spotlight you mentioned that he was designed to be the ultimate defender. He procs an aura of incineration that will melt through most champions, has a really strong regen depending on his persistent soul count, and his special attack 1 will cause you to proc multiple dexterity buffs when you evade it. Giving him more special attacks when he has mystic dispersion.

Player's are currently being punished for skilled game play against these champions. As something that has been repeated a lot in the threads for all the Alliance War changes, attacking should be better than not attacking. Evading special attacks should be better than not evading special attacks.

So how could you go about changing this?

1. The simplest and easiest method that I can think off would be to remove the buff from dexterity, but since there is now entire game mechanic that relies on your dexterity buff to trigger regeneration, I don't see that happening.

2. You could stop dexterity from refreshing multiple times when you evade a special attack, this would still grant up to 12% power to a mystic defender and proc a degeneration from Dormammu. It would also continue to trigger Buffet for it's continued use in act 5 and Alliance War.

3. You could simply make dexterity not trigger mystic dispersion by reprogramming how it works and changing the description of mystic dispersion. In the description of M.O.D.O.K. you mention how his auto block cannot trigger parry (even though it does as evidenced in several YouTube videos), you could put in Dormammu's description that dexterity won't trigger degeneration.

4. You could change unavoidable damage to be based off base attack only. Or base attack + synergies + masteries. This would exactly mirror the changes to willpower and regeneration that you did (and subsequently ignored for buffet).

I know that not everyone has been playing this game from the beginning, and even I have only been playing since March 2015, so I feel it is necessary to go over changes to the game that led to a much greater experience.

1. Willpower was changed because in it's previous state it was a bit ridiculous. You were rewarded for being hit by special attacks that caused debuffs. The best strategy for fighting War Machine was to just let him stack up bleeds on you, you would heal up for 1.5% of your maximum health per debuff (it used to stack), not to mention the 15% increase to that from 3/3 recovery.

2. Perfect block teams: Double Dr Strange and Scarlet Witch; Magneto, Black Bolt, and Red Cyclops; Double War Machine and Hawkeye, etc. These specific teams defined the meta for attacking in any game mode. If you didn't have them you couldn't necessarily do what other people did. When map 6 was first introduced you added a node called greater block erosion that slowly reduced your ability to perfectly block all attacks, this node hurt every champion in the game.

3. Who can forget how dominating Scarlet Witch was with a critical rate synergy team prior to 12.0? She was so ridiculous in what she could do, that she lead to the closing of Labyrinth of Legends the day that it opened. She just blew through it and to counter her you added a node called dulled. Dulled hurt the damage output of any champion with a buff, or a debuff on your opponent. Labyrinth became much more costly for everyone and it made it nearly impossible for some champions to do it at all.

For my fellow summoner's who might be commenting on this, please refrain from having your comments becoming inflammatory, having a thread closed down without any real discussion occurring is just a waste of everyone's time.

To Kabam; as you have mentioned a lot, attacking should always be better than not attacking. Just as not getting hit should always be better than being hit.

Regards

Quickshot Gaming
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Comments

  • Run477Run477 Posts: 1,344 ★★★
    It’s mephisto, unless u have a blade, that is ridiculous in war when combined with md. At least with dorm, while u will likely take some damage purely bc of dexterity buffs, magik can at least handle him. Mephisto is just stupid on a lot of nodes when combined with max md and max limber.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    Run477 wrote: »
    I’m not going to make a negative comment. Just going to say: this was a long post to say something that lots of other people have said over and over again. Kabam never responds. Ever.

    But btw, magik isn’t even really a problem in war for the most part. I don’t put mine on defense. Voodoo, magik, blade, quake, elektra, and particularly arch angel, all deal with her pretty easily. I use mine on attack usually now. And I have max md as well.

    I will agree that Magik is no longer the terror on defense that she once was. She has always been able to be countered with another Magik. I was just pointing out that the shift for the current war defense meta happened after her buff.

    The introduction of Voodoo changed how people went about countering Magiks. The same with Archangel.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    Titan_A97 wrote: »
    This raises another separate problem entirely as well: Why is dexterity/evade a mastery and not a core mechanic of the game?

    Seriously, it doesn't matter if you're from a top 100 alliance or bottom 50% alliance, dexterity is an ability essential to any and every summoner who wants to progress in the game with no exception (unless you're fine spending pot after pot, revive after revive taking 2000 block damage per hit or special). Dexterity has become more than a mere mastery, it's a core mechanic of this game thats no different from blocking.

    This is further supported by the fact that EVERY A.I in event quests or story quests have an in-built dexterity/evade mechanic that allows them to evade our specials and attacks without triggering a crit buff. Yes, they may not use this often but it goes a long way to prove that dexterity is a mechanic, not an optional mastery.

    So why do the players have to spend to unlock a toned down version of the evade mechanic which the A.I inherently possess by default that doesn't trigger MD? That's something to think about folks.

    The ai can even trigger dexterity on War Defense to evade you as well. When an unduped Nightcrawler or highly duped Spiderman does it, it can be extremely frustrating.
  • f9_absf9_abs Posts: 126
    Not against this topic, but just wanted to clarify that I don't think dexterity per se is feeding MD similar to evade mechanics of certain champs. It's the increased critical rating for next hit (precision like buff) is what triggers MD from my observation. Still, that's something which needs to be fixed as we shouldn't be penalized for playing properly.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    f9_abs wrote: »
    Not against this topic, but just wanted to clarify that I don't think dexterity per se is feeding MD similar to evade mechanics of certain champs. It's the increased critical rating for next hit (precision like buff) is what triggers MD from my observation. Still, that's something which needs to be fixed as we shouldn't be penalized for playing properly.

    It's the expiration of the precision buff you get for successfully evading an attack.
  • BobomanBoboman Posts: 717 ★★
    This is a very good note to developers and tweaks that you came up with
  • EdwardEdward Posts: 27
    bump
  • GrimmbearGrimmbear Posts: 639 ★★★
    If you're proccing dexterity you're not playing perfectly
  • Put a cool down timer on MD same as Stark Tech's Poise buff has.
  • EdwardEdward Posts: 27
    Put a cool down timer on MD same as Stark Tech's Poise buff has.

    Nah they cant do that either they need to fix the relation ship between MD and Dex thats all
  • klobberintymeklobberintyme Posts: 855 ★★★
    If you had to use mastery points to obtain it, and gain a benefit from it, it seems fair enough you could buy another mastery that benefits from that.
  • EvilRazorEvilRazor Posts: 143
    edited December 2017
    The thing about Dexterity is not evade in fact, but, the ability gives you a precision buff every time you dash back attacks. So, in this point is not Dexterity but the precision buff that refresh every time you evades, it does not stack.
    So in this case could be:
    1. Don't refresh precision buff when using Dexterity when a precision from Dexterity is already actived;
    or
    2. Stack precision from Dexterity with a limit number, like 20 stacks, so at least we gain a hugh damage in the next hit, but mystic dispersion stills to give power to champions

    It's a point.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,132 ★★★★★
    Grimmbear wrote: »
    If you're proccing dexterity you're not playing perfectly

    Evade Dormammu's l2 and don't proc dexterity on true strike, I'll wait for the results.
    There are quite a few ways to deal with that.

    First one is don’t let him have an l2. Power control/bait.

    Yondu awakened will reduce the attack via debuffs letting you block it with minimal damage. I’ve had 7 stacks of weakness on the power gain mini in aw.

    Vulture doesn’t need dexterity to evade. Same with NC but NC procs a stacking cruelty buff. Depending on the mastery set up for utility it will cost less units than a quest potion to temporarily remove dexterity, My build would be 12 units.

    Iceman can push him to an l3 instead and use his ice armor.


  • I think the percision stacking is not necessary, nor is a cool down timer for the precision that triggers every time dexterity is activated. JUST TAKE THAT FEATURE COMPLETELY OUT! Have dexterity WITHOUT the percision trigger. No one needs that buff. It is not essential for anyone to “HAVE A PERCISION BUFF TRIGGER EVERYTIME DEXTERITY IS ACTIVATED.” Show me one person who can honestly say that that specific buff is the reason why they win fights. Lol
  • belli300belli300 Posts: 701 ★★★
    I 100% stand by everything you said this was an extremely well thought out post providing multiple solution each of which I as a player find would be a far more suitable option than the current state of the game.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    Grimmbear wrote: »
    If you're proccing dexterity you're not playing perfectly

    Evade Dormammu's l2 and don't proc dexterity on true strike, I'll wait for the results.
    There are quite a few ways to deal with that.

    First one is don’t let him have an l2. Power control/bait.

    Yondu awakened will reduce the attack via debuffs letting you block it with minimal damage. I’ve had 7 stacks of weakness on the power gain mini in aw.

    Vulture doesn’t need dexterity to evade. Same with NC but NC procs a stacking cruelty buff. Depending on the mastery set up for utility it will cost less units than a quest potion to temporarily remove dexterity, My build would be 12 units.

    Iceman can push him to an l3 instead and use his ice armor.


    Nightcrawler doesn't need dexterity to evade, but since the AW boss has true strike he can't use it so your point is lost on me. Vulture doesn't have the damage output for that fight, and even if a 4/55 Vulture can proc a miss once it doesn't take into account multiple hits from the ai.

    Dormammu loves to to aggressively dash forward with multiple hit combos causing you to evade each hit. Maybe you don't see as many 4/55 Dormammu bosses in your alliance tier.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,132 ★★★★★
    edited January 2018
    @quickshot32 True strike turns off NC’s built in dexterity? Good to know, I’ll have to test but where to find true strike? But lemme think about it since the goalposts were just moved.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    @quickshot32 True strike turns off NC’s built in dexterity? Good to know, I’ll have to test but where to find true strike? But lemme think about it since the goalposts were just moved.

    True strike turns off all passive evade effects, you can check the descriptions of Karnak and Cable to see for yourself. And Nightcrawler's l1 evade buff will trigger mystic dispersion and Dormammu's degeneration upon expiring.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,132 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    @quickshot32 True strike turns off NC’s built in dexterity? Good to know, I’ll have to test but where to find true strike? But lemme think about it since the goalposts were just moved.

    True strike turns off all passive evade effects, you can check the descriptions of Karnak and Cable to see for yourself. And Nightcrawler's l1 evade buff will trigger mystic dispersion and Dormammu's degeneration upon expiring.
    Nightcrawler and Vulture have dexterity even if they do not have the mastery. That’s not technically an evade effect tmk which I why I would like to test it but cannot think of a node I can easily access outside of AQ/AW.

    NCs cruelty buff looks like a passive. Here’s a short vid showing them evading without dexterity.


  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    @quickshot32 True strike turns off NC’s built in dexterity? Good to know, I’ll have to test but where to find true strike? But lemme think about it since the goalposts were just moved.

    True strike turns off all passive evade effects, you can check the descriptions of Karnak and Cable to see for yourself. And Nightcrawler's l1 evade buff will trigger mystic dispersion and Dormammu's degeneration upon expiring.
    Nightcrawler and Vulture have dexterity even if they do not have the mastery. That’s not technically an evade effect tmk which I why I would like to test it but cannot think of a node I can easily access outside of AQ/AW.

    NCs cruelty buff looks like a passive. Here’s a short vid showing them evading without dexterity.


    You would need to duel a Karnak and have him use his l1 to get the true strike buff up, or a Cable and survive the l3.
    You could also duel a Dormammu to see if the buffs trigger degen upon their expiring. Evading without true strike proves nothing to the point you're trying to make. Also bring Nightcrawler to your next 4/55 Dormammu boss fight and record that, I'm sure the entirety of the forums would love to see it.

    Regardless if 2 champions in the game have the capability to evade one or none of the attacks of a Mystic Alliance War boss, they can't do it reliably, meaning you are forced to either eat blocked damage or evade it, and sometimes your evade no matter how good you are will proc dexterity. Not running dexterity will result in death if you fail in your dash back.

    To quote Kabam themselves in their own post (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/24/alliance-quests-dormammus-dominion):

    "And lastly, something we were going to leave for you to find in game, but we think you'd all like to know...Dormammu is the Boss of Season 4. We intend for him to be difficult, but we don't intend for the difficulty to be as a result of players playing well. Dormammu will not have his Signature Ability activated."
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,132 ★★★★★
    edited January 2018
    @Qu1ckshoT32_Gaming
    They do evade against true strike, thank you for the tips. Image_ if you want to test Karnak or there is also an Iceman if you want to do it quickly. Also the cruelty buffs do not trigger MD.

    I didn’t say NC or Vulture would one shot AW Dorm although I think Vulture might be capable as his L2 power burn has some great damage, the point I am making is that there are ways around Dormammu’s special 2 only one of which you have attempted to refute; also that there are characters that can evade his L2 on true strike without triggering MD. That’s been shown.

    And they actually can do it reliably as without thier buffs they will not be triggering mystic dispersion so you can bait L1s all day long without giving him power.

    Now yes the forums would love to see me take NC against a Dormammu in war however my skills are not up to par with yours as you seem to be able to one shot Dormammu without mystic dispersion. You now have the tools, let’s see it. ;)
  • RafamateRafamate Posts: 38
    I definitely agree with the post. Evade should be a defensive mastery and should not trigger critical rate. This crit rate is Useless, I don't believe that anyone who plays the game ever relies on that crit rate. Skilled fighters should be rewarded and not punished.

    1. Make dexterity a defensive mastery, or
    2. Keep it in utility but remove the crit rate. Or use it as a passive effect which doesn't trigger mystic dispersion.
  • I think it should be left alone personally. I've spent units unlocking md (like alot of other people).
    I purchased a product that's working as intended.. If its changed i want reimbursing.. If you don't like it remove dex simple.
    Sick of people crying for nerfs constantly.. The game is in the state its in today (bug central) because of crying for nerfing. That's my opinion.
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