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Playing as Emma Frost

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    It’s not so much about the ‘inverted controls’ but as a player, we have to ‘evade’ by inverting our control to avoid Emma’s sp1 damage. So does that mean an AI fighting vs a player-controlled Emma Frost will automatically suffer damage from Emma’s Sp1 (since AI does not invert); or can the AI simply bypass sp1 it by normal dex?
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    ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 842 ★★★
    MikeHock wrote: »
    MikeHock wrote: »
    Wow, a hero whose special attack effects us and not the AI. Pretty pathetic.

    I hate to make the same joke twice in the same thread but since you’ve ignored what others have said:

    Please let me know when you feel 70% more likely to use a special attack if Spark taunts you.

    I got the joke about taunt and enjoyed it. I was referring to inverted controls. Like the OP was asking, what is the benefit of Inverted Controls when using Emma on the attack? There doesn’t appear to be any.

    But what's the benefit of taunt when using Sparky on defense?
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    Duke_SilverDuke_Silver Posts: 2,421 ★★★★
    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    Doesn't his taunt also lower the other champion's attack during the duration?
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    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    Doesn't his taunt also lower the other champion's attack during the duration?

    Yes, Atk is reduce by 40% and there’s a 70% higher chance to trigger special atk

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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,643 ★★★★★
    Bapoi wrote: »
    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    Hold on, those are different things altogether in my view.
    You're comparing something that can be programmed into the AI (inversion of controls), to a choice made by a player.
    If we use Sparky and place a taunt, it sure has an effect on the AI. Why would the inversion not have an effect?

    Sorry, but your answer seems off to me...

    If Sparky puts a taunt on me, I can choose to ignore it, if Emma pops an L1, I have to deal with it. The same code inverting my controls can be applied to the AI for the duration of the special. Or at least, it should be applied.

    The point is we have one champ that has an ability that affects the AI in a way that it does not affect the player. Now we have a champ with an ability that affects the player in a way that it does not affect the AI. No reason why the first is reasonable and the second isn't.
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    Bapoi wrote: »
    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    Hold on, those are different things altogether in my view.
    You're comparing something that can be programmed into the AI (inversion of controls), to a choice made by a player.
    If we use Sparky and place a taunt, it sure has an effect on the AI. Why would the inversion not have an effect?

    Sorry, but your answer seems off to me...

    If Sparky puts a taunt on me, I can choose to ignore it, if Emma pops an L1, I have to deal with it. The same code inverting my controls can be applied to the AI for the duration of the special. Or at least, it should be applied.

    The point is we have one champ that has an ability that affects the AI in a way that it does not affect the player. Now we have a champ with an ability that affects the player in a way that it does not affect the AI. No reason why the first is reasonable and the second isn't.

    Let’s be very clear that this is two very different subject matter altogether. Taunt is an ability, and it shouldn’t be grouped with ‘special atk’

    Taunt doesn’t cause ‘direct damage’ whereas using the wrong evading mechanism does.

    I don’t see it as unreasonable to seek clarification from Kabam why it is so when a player is subject to a differing mechanism to evade special atk whereas AI isn’t. And again, let me stress ‘special atks’ not ability.
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    ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 842 ★★★
    You know what I've realised, and I think someone picked up on it before...

    In what scenario has the AI ever managed to dex any of your special attacks before? The only time I've ever fired it without knowing for certain it would land is either out of desperation or when it's unblockable, and I've probably had the AI dex a special maybe twice in the past year I've played.

    So maybe this doesn't really matter? Either you use it so that it lands every time (which is what players usually do), or the AI just blocks it and doesn't try dexing it either way.
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    Spurgeon14Spurgeon14 Posts: 1,665 ★★★★
    Not sure why the inverted controls working on AI would even matter. When a player’s controls get inverted, they can still end up doing what they mean to do as normal like evading and dashing in, they just have to do it backwards. An AI can absolutely do the same input but the player wouldn’t be able to tell if it worked anyway. I mean, if the AI dashes in does that mean it worked? How would a player know what the AI meant to do and what it actually ended up doing? So the inverted controls having no effect on the AI would not matter. Even if they did work, it’s not like a player would know.

    Excellently put! I was thinking the same thing. :)

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    Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 2,237 ★★★★
    its really funny....

    i would love to find the old thread where kabam have said
    "we do not release champs specifically for defenders."
    I cannot remember who it was in regards to.
    Pretty sure the comment was by Kabam Miiike.
    and i think it was in regards to Mephisto and his aura of incineration.

    fast forward to know and the release emma with this ability.
    that only affects the player. only has value on defence.
    and in the video Miiike says
    "she is the best defender we have released"

    i dont like to call kabam out on things but this is a complete 180 no matter what way you spin it.....
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    NarcuulNarcuul Posts: 115
    My main point was only that I feel like this is setting a bad precedent, with abilities being designed with zero benefit to the player, only purely designed to screw us up. They already have nodes for this, no need to throw in abilities.

    These abilities have a tendency to start showing up for more and more characters, and with the overwhelming stream of new characters we get now, I wouldn't be surprised to see more soon.
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    Carnage313Carnage313 Posts: 359 ★★★
    ShadPrince wrote: »
    You know what I've realised, and I think someone picked up on it before...

    In what scenario has the AI ever managed to dex any of your special attacks before? The only time I've ever fired it without knowing for certain it would land is either out of desperation or when it's unblockable, and I've probably had the AI dex a special maybe twice in the past year I've played.

    So maybe this doesn't really matter? Either you use it so that it lands every time (which is what players usually do), or the AI just blocks it and doesn't try dexing it either way.

    I feel I’m going in circles on this issue. Let me reiterate that this is not about AI vs Player abilities but instead this is about the game principle. Insofar, be it Player or AI, your move sets are somewhat fixed. You string combos, dash, block, evade and use special Attack. All these movesets are similar to both Player and AI.

    But we have never encountered a situation where a direct damage is a consequent of a differing move set (ie inverse control), and more so when it applies to Player only. This is a very dangerous precedent Kabam is treading into.

    Just imagine a Player brings Emma to AW and faces a defending Emma (AI controllled). You, as a player are compelled to use a differing move set or else suffer direct damage from her special atrack but the AI can choose to block or evade a special Attack with normal move set. If I, as a Player am subjected to a differing move set in order to avoid damage then why can’t the AI be coded to also follow the same rule? The visibility of the effect is not in question but instead the game principle is.

    I agree I don’t know why most aren’t grasping this point. Like I said earlier she is just being introduced as an awesome champ to drive sales but when you look through all the bull she is just going to be another champ for garbage war. Personally I’m sick of champs that serve only war purpose. I want champs that are fun and great for endgame content not just a champ I just put on a board to not use and hope they get at least one kill that someone can just keep using potions to beat anyway. Idk just my two cents. Was excited when I heard she was being added but not so much now.
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    NojokejaymNojokejaym Posts: 3,939 ★★★★★
    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    i find that fair
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    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    I suppose this should be a major flaw in design, you need to put another mastery where the evading is don’t 50% automatic by AI and mostly AI takes Damage, look people will put money on that champ to grab her and buy everything to unlock that mastery
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    OKAYGangOKAYGang Posts: 524 ★★★
    edited September 2018
    So the real question is, is the AI going to learn how to intercept her when she is in diamond form? Typically the AI gains power slighty faster than the player, so I imagine it'll be pretty easy to stay in diamond form, especially at the start of a fight.
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    NojokejaymNojokejaym Posts: 3,939 ★★★★★
    OKAYGang wrote: »
    So the real question is, is the AI going to learn how to intercept her when she is in diamond form?

    So true
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    iRetr0iRetr0 Posts: 1,252 ★★★★
    Emma's Control Inversion has no effect on the AI, similar to the way that Spider-Man (Stark Enhanced)'s Taunts have no effect on the Player.

    But doesn't Taunt reduce Attack rating meaning it does affect the player? 🤔
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    NojokejaymNojokejaym Posts: 3,939 ★★★★★
    Nojokejaym wrote: »
    OKAYGang wrote: »
    So the real question is, is the AI going to learn how to intercept her when she is in diamond form?

    So true

    nvm she changes form due to power bar
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    Hort4Hort4 Posts: 501 ★★★
    There are two parts to the sig ability. The first part listed still applies to the player. Similar to AI with SS having one part still valid.

    When Telepath Form is active and Emma Frost would lose more than 15% of her Max Health from a single source, she activates Diamond Form for 3 seconds to reduce the damage. This ability activates before checking Armor and Resistances.
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    XxOriginalxXXxOriginalxX Posts: 1,324 ★★★
    I think maybe if AI tried to dexterity your specials it would matter, but they block them, so it doesn’t even matter right?
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    ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 842 ★★★
    All of a sudden I started imagining during the dialogue the character on screen pointing accusingly at me saying "how come taunt forcibly changes my special attack algorithm and it does nothing to you?? This is a load of bollocks!!"
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