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Alliance War Matchmaking unfair [Merged Threads]

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  • LordSmasherLordSmasher Member Posts: 1,613 ★★★★★
    LordSmasher said:

    Is it back to prestige again? Had 1 war where widely different but the last 2 are similar.

    Guys I’m trying to ask a question. You’re not going to convince each other and you’re drowning the thread.
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  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Now, I'm not totally ignorant to the issue. If someone had said to me that Rewards should be scaled based on Prestige because it affects the rate of growth when they're too high for Allies not far along enough yet, I'd agree. No one has really made that point. So far, it's been the argument that they shouldn't be there, and I have very little tolerance for Allies organizing coups or breaking the rules. On that front, I'd ban them all if I could. That's not at all in the spirit of fairness.

    Most of us would ban cheaters... but destroying a fundamental aspect of the game because of it is not how you do it.

    Your disincentivizing player that worked hard to develop their rosters, mate. Spent on resources... not to mention Prestige is not a sign of skill, but who they ranked. How many alliances ranked horrible champs for prestige for AQ purposes only?

    Now they are punished with hard matches because they don’t have skills... Prestige is not necessarily a symbol of strength. Thor Rag, Goldpool, Phoenix.... look at most of the high prestige champs. What about that factor? How is it fair to them to not look at War Rating and match them by their skill and not their roster?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Now, I'm not totally ignorant to the issue. If someone had said to me that Rewards should be scaled based on Prestige because it affects the rate of growth when they're too high for Allies not far along enough yet, I'd agree. No one has really made that point. So far, it's been the argument that they shouldn't be there, and I have very little tolerance for Allies organizing coups or breaking the rules. On that front, I'd ban them all if I could. That's not at all in the spirit of fairness.

    Most of us would ban cheaters... but destroying a fundamental aspect of the game because of it is not how you do it.

    Your disincentivizing player that worked hard to develop their rosters, mate. Spent on resources... not to mention Prestige is not a sign of skill, but who they ranked. How many alliances ranked horrible champs for prestige for AQ purposes only?

    Now they are punished with hard matches because they don’t have skills... Prestige is not necessarily a symbol of strength. Thor Rag, Goldpool, Phoenix.... look at most of the high prestige champs. What about that factor? How is it fair to them to not look at War Rating and match them by their skill and not their roster?
    Destroying a fundamental part of the game is exactly what cheaters do. Tanking, dummy Allies, Mercs, all of it. If it wasn't for that behavior, we wouldn't be here. Here we are with a larger problem because Allies are threatening to do it in another way. That IS what's destroying the War system. It's the lesion. Not what's coming out of it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Charnutz said:

    LordSmasher said:

    LordSmasher said:

    Is it back to prestige again? Had 1 war where widely different but the last 2 are similar.

    Guys I’m trying to ask a question. You’re not going to convince each other and you’re drowning the thread.
    That's what the kabam employee is trying to do. He's literally the only one
    I'm not an Employee. Miike has already stated that Matchmaking is continually evolving and working on improving. That's about as much detail as we will get I'm afraid.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Now, I'm not totally ignorant to the issue. If someone had said to me that Rewards should be scaled based on Prestige because it affects the rate of growth when they're too high for Allies not far along enough yet, I'd agree. No one has really made that point. So far, it's been the argument that they shouldn't be there, and I have very little tolerance for Allies organizing coups or breaking the rules. On that front, I'd ban them all if I could. That's not at all in the spirit of fairness.

    Most of us would ban cheaters... but destroying a fundamental aspect of the game because of it is not how you do it.

    Your disincentivizing player that worked hard to develop their rosters, mate. Spent on resources... not to mention Prestige is not a sign of skill, but who they ranked. How many alliances ranked horrible champs for prestige for AQ purposes only?

    Now they are punished with hard matches because they don’t have skills... Prestige is not necessarily a symbol of strength. Thor Rag, Goldpool, Phoenix.... look at most of the high prestige champs. What about that factor? How is it fair to them to not look at War Rating and match them by their skill and not their roster?
    Destroying a fundamental part of the game is exactly what cheaters do. Tanking, dummy Allies, Mercs, all of it. If it wasn't for that behavior, we wouldn't be here. Here we are with a larger problem because Allies are threatening to do it in another way. That IS what's destroying the War system. It's the lesion. Not what's coming out of it.
    And teams can cheat the Prestige based matchmaking, cheaters will always exist. People can kick players after a certain prestige and keep a core of members. They can then replace low prestige players to ensure they don’t exceed 7000-8000. Then throw in hard bosses. There will ALWAYS be cheaters, mate.

    You position does not solve for it, it just makes it worse for the legit high end players at the sake of “feeling” good.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
    It is not evened out... it costs more unit, loyalty, glory to heal a 5 or 6*... what is even about that? It isn’t skill, and those that have harder matches with more cost are not adequately rewarded.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
    It is not evened out... it costs more unit, loyalty, glory to heal a 5 or 6*... what is even about that? It isn’t skill, and those that have harder matches with more cost are not adequately rewarded.
    If they're using that many Items, is it skill anyway?
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    @GroundedWisdom Also, then stop beating your head against a wall when no one agrees with you. How about that advice?
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    edited April 2020
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
    It is not evened out... it costs more unit, loyalty, glory to heal a 5 or 6*... what is even about that? It isn’t skill, and those that have harder matches with more cost are not adequately rewarded.
    If they're using that many Items, is it skill anyway?
    Are you saying the 6000-7000 don’t in order to clear a map... you are arguing the anecdotal.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    So if you disagree with me, why not just leave my points as they are? Why reply and Quote all of my comments? Seems like we're both engaged in this.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
    It is not evened out... it costs more unit, loyalty, glory to heal a 5 or 6*... what is even about that? It isn’t skill, and those that have harder matches with more cost are not adequately rewarded.
    If they're using that many Items, is it skill anyway?
    Are you saying the 6000-7000 don’t in order to clear a map... you are arguing the antidotal.
    I'm saying you're judging what you think is hard for another Ally based on what you find hard, but you're not working with what they are, and you don't have the same limitations. Even Matches means what's hard is hard for everyone where they're at, and no amount of "Our Champs are stronger so our Matches are harder." is going to change that it's only ONE perspective, and to see the other, you have to detach and look outside of what you think is easy or hard FOR YOU with what YOU HAVE. Dear Lord.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2020
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  • Midknight007Midknight007 Member Posts: 770 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Midknight007 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    You can't say they're getting easier Matches because they're only easier to you based on what you're bringing. God I hope this is clicking. I'm getting dizzy. XD

    Wrong... I can run all 4* against their 4* and shred most defenses. How many of those 6000-7000 player completed LOL or Act 6? Oh wait, they can’t even run act 6 with their 4*s. SMH
    So that means it's not hard for them? See my points on looking through one's own glasses.
    No, my point is that it is not as hard as what other higher Prestige teams face, and the alliances with the harder matches are not getting adequately rewarded for their efforts.

    Please move on.
    Matches are harder and their Champs hit harder because it's based on Prestige. So it evens out. Please open your mind and see what I'm beating my head on a wall trying to say, and I will.
    It is not evened out... it costs more unit, loyalty, glory to heal a 5 or 6*... what is even about that? It isn’t skill, and those that have harder matches with more cost are not adequately rewarded.
    If they're using that many Items, is it skill anyway?
    Are you saying the 6000-7000 don’t in order to clear a map... you are arguing the antidotal.
    I'm saying you're judging what you think is hard for another Ally based on what you find hard, but you're not working with what they are, and you don't have the same limitations. Even Matches means what's hard is hard for everyone where they're at, and no amount of "Our Champs are stronger so our Matches are harder." is going to change that it's only ONE perspective, and to see the other, you have to detach and look outside of what you think is easy or hard FOR YOU with what YOU HAVE. Dear Lord.
    I mean... I have a bunch more people saying the same thing, you are the only one saying it is about fairness. I gave you how cheaters can manipulate your system. Prestige is based on the alliances combined strength. You can have 6 guys with 10,000 Prestige.... the other 24 with 6500-8000. They could setup a hard defense that most 7000-8000 can break. Is that fair? Would it be sandbagging and cheating if it is being done to manipulate the system an get rewards that are not really warranted to their skill level?
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Member Posts: 83 ★
    @GroundedWisdom i would like to take a shot at a more civil discussion, should an alliance be in a tier where 90% of that tier is at one level (prestige alliance rating what have you) and the outliers in said tier can compete for the rewards of that tier without facing other alliance also competing for that tier of rewards? And I don’t mean at just the master level. I mean across the board?
  • Das_giDas_gi Member Posts: 320 ★★
    @GroundedWisdom if you can’t even notice the amount of disagrees you get in this chat compared to the few people that agree then you really don’t understand what the issue is.

    Also yeah we have yet another prestige matchup

    @Kabam Miike I hope you guys didn’t change it back to prestige wars because of the lower rated alliances complaining cause 1 war in which it’s changed doesn’t change anything at all
  • QuikPikQuikPik Member Posts: 821 ★★★★
    The prestige match making is so broken it's not funny.

    This is my test alliance:



    Who we got matched against:



    That's nearly a 400 point difference in war rating but of course our prestige is very close.

    Firstly, there's no way the match making system should have searched through 3 tiers to find this match.

    Secondly, how does our 2800 prestige alliance even get to over a 2100 war rating. This shouldn't be possible under any fair system.

    We've only lost 1 war since starting at zero war rating. That one match we lost was 2 wars ago when we got matched against an alliance with similar war rating but nearly 3x the prestige. That match was fair as we are clearly playing above our means due to the match making system.

    I have no doubt a 4-6k prestige alliance playing 3 BG wars with skilled players can finish plat 1 or master.
  • Neffa45Neffa45 Member Posts: 22 ★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    So if you disagree with me, why not just leave my points as they are? Why reply and Quote all of my comments? Seems like we're both engaged in this.

    GroundedWisdom said:

    So if you disagree with me, why not just leave my points as they are? Why reply and Quote all of my comments? Seems like we're both engaged in this.

    Because you're doing what you've been doing for years..... which is drown legit complaints with paid banter in order to lessen the impact of the truth. We honestly thought you retired and left........grats dude my 1st post after years of playing the game is about the same thing you've been accused of for the same amount of time. If we let your points stand you'd minimize the truth like you always have.

    We're a 38 mil 10.2k prestige alliance and we're teetering between tier 6 and 5 constantly. Every time we step foot in the tier 5 doorstep we face top tier alliances and it costs tons of resources. We've never faced 4*'s in War until the 1 matchmaking correction where we decimated an alliance with half our stats. Grounded Wisdom I want you to tell me who is SUPPOSED to be in Gold 1 us or them? I see Master Alliances with trash that we could beat EVERY DAY.....they are getting rewards based solely on a failed matchmaking system that we will never get to face them. You tell me who deserves those rewards I'd love to hear your infinite insight.....
  • Neffa45Neffa45 Member Posts: 22 ★
    The alliances complaining about facing alliances 2 times their strength in war this last round of LEGIT war rating means they shouldn't be in the bracket they're in because the current matchmaking system is broken. This doesn't make it their fault they just need to know they're gonna get knocked down to where they SHOULD ACTUALLY BE. They should consider they've been getting better season rewards for less cost than the dogs who belong there. @Kabam Miike could confirm this they wouldn't have done it if it wasn't severely flawed. IMO they could have waited until Season start to implement but the fact of the Caliber of Alliance we shredded in Gold 1 makes me know my Alliance is in due process of our ACTUAL performance War Rating and stopping beginner accounts or people intentionally building rosters around the flaw needs to stop. Those are my rewards that I built my team through hard work and money to get. I could easily sell account "fluff" and only rank my prestige to skew the dynamic of who we face any time I want that's not skill that's taking advantage of a flaw.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,726 ★★★★★
    Dsc0721 said:

    @GroundedWisdom i would like to take a shot at a more civil discussion, should an alliance be in a tier where 90% of that tier is at one level (prestige alliance rating what have you) and the outliers in said tier can compete for the rewards of that tier without facing other alliance also competing for that tier of rewards? And I don’t mean at just the master level. I mean across the board?

    The Rewards are based on how many Points have been put up by each Ally. Not who you've taken out in the same Bracket. It's essentially a numbers tally. So if they have the Points, then yes.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Member Posts: 83 ★
    I agree with everything that everyone is arguing with him on, but I must point out that he’s actually not in agreement with kabam on this one, they changed the algorithm and he seems to be on the side of those that wish kabam had not. And taking shots like that when your angry doesn’t help make the point it just devalues all of our efforts to debate the issue
  • QuikPikQuikPik Member Posts: 821 ★★★★
    edited April 2020
    @Neffa45 That's very true. In our only war that was based on war rating, our opponent didn't clear any of our bosses and only got a handful of mini's down. Our war rating was within 20 points and it was clear they didn't have the roster be at their war rating.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Member Posts: 83 ★
    @GroundedWisdom ok fair point agree to disagree, but I would like to make a couple of points, skill is an issue, if you are good enough to punch up to another tier or 2 with lesser roster size prestige etc, why is it then ok to continue to be matched against alliances that look fair on paper based on that criteria and slaughter them whilst they are 2-3 tiers lower? Where as a comparable skilled alliance may have higher metrics and but be similarly skilled and offer a fair fight even though on paper they aren’t as “strong”. Basically the issue is reversed if you are skilled enough and win long enough you can claim the top spots in each Tier and your skill and lack of metrics allows that alliance to slaughter other similar alliances metrics wise with mega discrepancy in skills.
  • Dsc0721Dsc0721 Member Posts: 83 ★
    edited April 2020
    If you weigh war rating or prestige to high or to low. The system benefits one group or the other. Many seem to think that prestige is no longer a factor I think it’s just not the higher weighted factor and after a period of settling out these wild mismatches will be no more, if an alliance is good enough they can move up as high as there prestige will allow.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited April 2020
    This content has been removed.
This discussion has been closed.