Well, I can tell u from my experience, wars were rarely won on kills. It was rare that we didn't win in defender kills. If we lost, it was explore/boss kills
Do what I did. Stop playing. As much as I enjoyed the game, it feels really nice to not be married to it with the time commitment it required. I pop in here once a day still to see all the complaints about the new war and laugh at them completely ignoring their player base. Many told them this was a problem long before it started and they didn't listen and the only response was to decrease the amount of points for attacker kills. That is funny, the one thing that reflects skill in scoring becomes less important.
A simple scoring system of total kills, offensive and defensive for the win would be a better scoring system than this is.
But carry on with the complaints please, it is all very amusing.
We are tier 1, and we won the last 3 wars despite having the lost the diversity battle in 2 of them.
it isn't as bad as people think.
How? Did you lose diversity by 1 defender but somehow overcome that with rating (which seems unlikely). Did opponents miss open tiles so they didn't get 100%? did opponents just not try to 100% all three bgs?
The only war we have lost was bc we only had 9 people in a bg and those 9 decided to play like **** that war for some reason. We should have won that one too. I really am curious about this post bc I have used a total of 1 item since this new scoring method started and we have faced multiple alliances that put in their "best" defenders. Our war rating is close to 2k. So I would really like to know how this is true.
@Dropfaith I couldn't disagree more. You can change the content to the point that it functionally changes a champ without changing the champ directly. I have a 5/50 Mordo and a 3/45 Mordo. Someone else in my BG has a 4/55 Mordo. That means both are now useless to me lol. Just as useless as if they had directly nerfed them. AW is a major part of the game and the new version directly affects the usefulness of champs
Haha. Yeah thats what im actually considering. Just stop playing in general. I now know of 14 ppl that have dropped this game. Most of them are spenders too. Solid players. Some of them still jump into arenas still every couple of days but they all dropped there allys. 5 from the ally im currently in. Like ive said in previous posts. Kabam is only hurting themselves and how they can't see that is baffling to me. Theyve taken a amazing game and turned it into a greed thing. Way to blow it kabam.
For the record I only posted that for laughs and giggles. I couldnt careless who won or lost. Its not my alliance. They all almost died twice thats what im laughing at and is the reason why I labled as is.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
Take the point but for the past 6 months he same people have moaned about MD and magik etc... being everywhere. Which was harder and arguably less fun as took pots etc to clear.
The only point that is not fun now is the energy need to clear each path, that could be reduced.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
Take the point but for the past 6 months he same people have moaned about MD and magik etc... being everywhere. Which was harder and arguably less fun as took pots etc to clear.
The only point that is not fun now is the energy need to clear each path, that could be reduced.
I strongly disagree with the statement that "the only point that is not fun now is the energy needed to clear each path." I think the energy is fine for the size of the map.
I will assume that a lot of these people were complaining about magik/md (I wasn't). I have made this point before--be careful what u wish for bc it might come true. People whined incessantly about facing so many magiks/juggs/dorms/Mordos with max md and kabam should "fix that." Most of those people didn't run max md and mystic champs despite complaining they were early superior. Now many of those people complain about diverse defenders and easiness and need kabam to "fix" this. I agree it's broken but I disagree that kabam will ever be able "fix" it to please most of these people.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
Take the point but for the past 6 months he same people have moaned about MD and magik etc... being everywhere. Which was harder and arguably less fun as took pots etc to clear.
The only point that is not fun now is the energy need to clear each path, that could be reduced.
Have you cross referenced to see if it is the same people complaining about both?
I was happier with a bunch of MD Mystics, because it was very well known, and you could prepare for it. And not every fight was a Magik (until sub or boss) or something, and it took skill to actually clear the path TO the subs/boss. Now it's just burn through MMKK and Gambit and whatnot to get to the 'real' fights at the end, which can then be zerged down due to no penalty for dying and everyone having good health champs left by that point.
To be fair, the biggest issue with Diversity is the removal of Defender Kill points. Leave that in, and it's much more strategic. Go for some guaranteed Diversity points, or have a beefier defense to rank up DK points? What % of each kind of defender is best? Do that, and pump up a few nodes with more unique effects, and we'll be in a much better spot.
I was happier with a bunch of MD Mystics, because it was very well known, and you could prepare for it. And not every fight was a Magik (until sub or boss) or something, and it took skill to actually clear the path TO the subs/boss. Now it's just burn through MMKK and Gambit and whatnot to get to the 'real' fights at the end, which can then be zerged down due to no penalty for dying and everyone having good health champs left by that point.
To be fair, the biggest issue with Diversity is the removal of Defender Kill points. Leave that in, and it's much more strategic. Go for some guaranteed Diversity points, or have a beefier defense to rank up DK points? What % of each kind of defender is best? Do that, and pump up a few nodes with more unique effects, and we'll be in a much better spot.
The ease of the tiles are such that the only way your compromise works is to increase defender kill points much higher than they have ever been.
To be fair, I always though defender kills should count for way more points. But kabam has steadfastly refused that bc it would further discourage item spending.
I'm not sure what the problem is here... the champs have not changed and are not now useless.. they still get same arena points and Mordo for example still gives most good prestige - so you would of ranked him anyways, making it a false agreement.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
Take the point but for the past 6 months he same people have moaned about MD and magik etc... being everywhere. Which was harder and arguably less fun as took pots etc to clear.
The only point that is not fun now is the energy need to clear each path, that could be reduced.
I didn't complain about Magik and MD; we found an adequate strategy for dealing with her. I still think MD is overpowered, and I wouldn't mind if they nerfed it (despite spending units to get to MD5), but it didn't make the game that much less fun -- it was interesting to try to beat, if often infuriating. It might help that in t2, it hasn't all been 4/55 Magiks -- more like 2-3 on the end platform, with some variety thrown in.
I am complaining about the current AW format, because it's not fun. <shrug>
I agree. I still have major concerns with the size of the map and all the portals.
We are tier 1, and we won the last 3 wars despite having the lost the diversity battle in 2 of them.
it isn't as bad as people think.
How? Did you lose diversity by 1 defender but somehow overcome that with rating (which seems unlikely). Did opponents miss open tiles so they didn't get 100%? did opponents just not try to 100% all three bgs?
The only war we have lost was bc we only had 9 people in a bg and those 9 decided to play like **** that war for some reason. We should have won that one too. I really am curious about this post bc I have used a total of 1 item since this new scoring method started and we have faced multiple alliances that put in their "best" defenders. Our war rating is close to 2k. So I would really like to know how this is true.
We aren't going for diversity, we are going for the toughest defense possible, you aren't going to 100% us with out spending, but in the off chance you do, you most likely will win, We have won 100% to 99% or 99% to 97%. Mainly we win with 3 boss kills to their 2.
Essentially the teams we face are going for diversity, so the map is super easy. Then we make the decision to either spend for the win or let it go. So far we have spent for the win, but just a little bit. Where the other team is spending for a few boss kills, diversity only works if you for sure will go for 100% no matter what.
If Kabam are intent on keeping the maps as is with portals and diversity, I would change the following:
1) (Technically this is keep not change, because it is bugged) Diversity is across BGs and not the alliance. At least a few people in the alliance can place the same champ in different BGs without punishing the AW diversity score.
2) Add back defender kills so there is at least a mathematical strategy of... do I push for a strong defensive unit that will get me defender kills or do I diversify my defence (As @Amonthir suggested). This doesn't necessarily discourage item use, it promotes the use of health pots instead of revives. (I guess from their perspective revives are higher spending).
3) Don't make us spend energy to travel through a portal. If you have to wait an hour for energy and come back, there is an increased likelihood that you end up on the wrong path because you've missed communication or simply fat fingered it.
Divseristy matters in t1, as most 100 all 3 groups quite comfortably, without spending until final boss nodes.
We are easily tier 1, and the key in your statement is "until final boss nodes" you will have to spend. I get it, now you have both teams spending to go 100%, and the team that spent and leaves empty handed gets upset, hence why all the complaining on the forum. I think most of this complaining would go away, if you knew you had no shot at winning, so show the score Kabam, then an alliance can play for a steal.
We 100% easily because the last 4 teams we have played are going for diversity which makes the map super easy. Try to 100% us, it is possible but you will have to spend. Inevitably, there is one guy who doesn't want to spend and that is when we steal it in the last 15 minutes.
While the system is indeed incredibly dumb, by this point everyone should be well aware how it works, so instead of posting your screenshots here and whining about it (it's been done enough, and kabam most likely isn't gonna revert it) how about you place those 150 unique defenders instead?
Seeing screenshots with <100 diversity is pretty hilarious though - what did you expect going into that war, exactly?
Point is to highlight the horrible scoring system and how it takes away from the fun of the game. Whining not included.
Point is the system was announced two weeks ago and you've had 5 wars and still can't follow a simple winning plan you deserve to lose
I understand what you're saying, but are you capable of understanding other peoples points, issues and concerns.
Seems like a very close war. I wonder if the OP will still complain if the war outcome turns out to be in his favour.
Yep. Already made that clear in my discussions on this thread with a member of the winning alliance in this war. I would have felt bad if they had lost, because the scoring system is ridiculous and doesn't point toward a clear winner.
@Dropfaith I couldn't disagree more. You can change the content to the point that it functionally changes a champ without changing the champ directly. I have a 5/50 Mordo and a 3/45 Mordo. Someone else in my BG has a 4/55 Mordo. That means both are now useless to me lol. Just as useless as if they had directly nerfed them. AW is a major part of the game and the new version directly affects the usefulness of champs
Exactly this ^^^. They haven't changed the champs. But they so significantly changed the content of the game itself that many champs who people poured resources into ranking are now basically useless. I have at least four champs I ranked to R5 (that's at least 12 tier 4 class catalysts, and 20 tier 4 basis catalysts, not to mention all the t1 alphas, gold and iso I used) solely for the purpose of building an effective AW defense. Now those champs are sitting on my roster, good for nothing but supplementary use in arenas.
I was happier with a bunch of MD Mystics, because it was very well known, and you could prepare for it. And not every fight was a Magik (until sub or boss) or something, and it took skill to actually clear the path TO the subs/boss. Now it's just burn through MMKK and Gambit and whatnot to get to the 'real' fights at the end, which can then be zerged down due to no penalty for dying and everyone having good health champs left by that point.
To be fair, the biggest issue with Diversity is the removal of Defender Kill points. Leave that in, and it's much more strategic. Go for some guaranteed Diversity points, or have a beefier defense to rank up DK points? What % of each kind of defender is best? Do that, and pump up a few nodes with more unique effects, and we'll be in a much better spot.
The ease of the tiles are such that the only way your compromise works is to increase defender kill points much higher than they have ever been.
To be fair, I always though defender kills should count for way more points. But kabam has steadfastly refused that bc it would further discourage item spending.
That is why I want them to pump up the nodes a bit, so that they actually matter. And I want new buffs, not just 'Oh, here's another 50% health, woohoo'.
Do what I did. Stop playing. As much as I enjoyed the game, it feels really nice to not be married to it with the time commitment it required. I pop in here once a day still to see all the complaints about the new war and laugh at them completely ignoring their player base. Many told them this was a problem long before it started and they didn't listen and the only response was to decrease the amount of points for attacker kills. That is funny, the one thing that reflects skill in scoring becomes less important.
A simple scoring system of total kills, offensive and defensive for the win would be a better scoring system than this is.
But carry on with the complaints please, it is all very amusing.
I agree with this entirely I've taken a giant step back from the game I basically only log in now to clear my lanes in AQ and to claim my dailies besides that this game isn't really worth the time I used to invest into it anymore. I feel like most of us are just waiting to see what sort of changes get implemented in the next few cycles of aw and that gonna decide if we completely quit or comeback. My alliance of 30 and our 3 sister alliances again of around 30 are all on the same boat. The game has become stale and boring. It's too easy, the drive for competition is complete gone with these recent changes. Sorry to say it kabam but if things don't change in a positive way SOON. You've finished digging the grave you began to dig when you decided to release 12.0
@Dropfaith I couldn't disagree more. You can change the content to the point that it functionally changes a champ without changing the champ directly. I have a 5/50 Mordo and a 3/45 Mordo. Someone else in my BG has a 4/55 Mordo. That means both are now useless to me lol. Just as useless as if they had directly nerfed them. AW is a major part of the game and the new version directly affects the usefulness of champs
Exactly this ^^^. They haven't changed the champs. But they so significantly changed the content of the game itself that many champs who people poured resources into ranking are now basically useless. I have at least four champs I ranked to R5 (that's at least 12 tier 4 class catalysts, and 20 tier 4 basis catalysts, not to mention all the t1 alphas, gold and iso I used) solely for the purpose of building an effective AW defense. Now those champs are sitting on my roster, good for nothing but supplementary use in arenas.
And? Still no changes to the champ. So no rank downs needed. You made choices to rank. Kabam did nothing to change who you ranked.. why you choose is.not a valid reason
That's like saying I ranked drax for lol but then I got starlord so I no longer need drax can I get a ticket
It would be closer to you convincing me to buy a boat, and then after I do, draining the lake it is in the middle of. Still not the best analogy, but it is up to Kabam to decide if they wish to change their RDT policy, not us. We can make a case as to why they should, and that is it. That is what some people are doing (others are just begging for RDT at any chance). I think they would be a nice gesture in a small number, but only if they go to Alliance-wide diversity with no Defender kill points.
Comments
it isn't as bad as people think.
A simple scoring system of total kills, offensive and defensive for the win would be a better scoring system than this is.
But carry on with the complaints please, it is all very amusing.
How? Did you lose diversity by 1 defender but somehow overcome that with rating (which seems unlikely). Did opponents miss open tiles so they didn't get 100%? did opponents just not try to 100% all three bgs?
The only war we have lost was bc we only had 9 people in a bg and those 9 decided to play like **** that war for some reason. We should have won that one too. I really am curious about this post bc I have used a total of 1 item since this new scoring method started and we have faced multiple alliances that put in their "best" defenders. Our war rating is close to 2k. So I would really like to know how this is true.
I don't mind the diversity, makes all fights bar the final boss easy and my ally is clearing maps with no items and only need 9 people to clear.
Yes, I ranked marvel KK to 5/50 just for diversity, but gives more arena points and makes the grind easier.
To second what most have said..., we all know the rules and scoring system, so y moan cause others are better than you a working within it.
I think people are moaning about the new scoring system is because it makes the game less fun. Because games are supposed to be fun, not a chore or a grind. I don't know how many players they have lost in recent weeks or how many more they are going to lose soon, but I doubt I am unique in my response to these changes.
Take the point but for the past 6 months he same people have moaned about MD and magik etc... being everywhere. Which was harder and arguably less fun as took pots etc to clear.
The only point that is not fun now is the energy need to clear each path, that could be reduced.
I strongly disagree with the statement that "the only point that is not fun now is the energy needed to clear each path." I think the energy is fine for the size of the map.
I will assume that a lot of these people were complaining about magik/md (I wasn't). I have made this point before--be careful what u wish for bc it might come true. People whined incessantly about facing so many magiks/juggs/dorms/Mordos with max md and kabam should "fix that." Most of those people didn't run max md and mystic champs despite complaining they were early superior. Now many of those people complain about diverse defenders and easiness and need kabam to "fix" this. I agree it's broken but I disagree that kabam will ever be able "fix" it to please most of these people.
Have you cross referenced to see if it is the same people complaining about both?
To be fair, the biggest issue with Diversity is the removal of Defender Kill points. Leave that in, and it's much more strategic. Go for some guaranteed Diversity points, or have a beefier defense to rank up DK points? What % of each kind of defender is best? Do that, and pump up a few nodes with more unique effects, and we'll be in a much better spot.
The ease of the tiles are such that the only way your compromise works is to increase defender kill points much higher than they have ever been.
To be fair, I always though defender kills should count for way more points. But kabam has steadfastly refused that bc it would further discourage item spending.
I agree. I still have major concerns with the size of the map and all the portals.
We aren't going for diversity, we are going for the toughest defense possible, you aren't going to 100% us with out spending, but in the off chance you do, you most likely will win, We have won 100% to 99% or 99% to 97%. Mainly we win with 3 boss kills to their 2.
Essentially the teams we face are going for diversity, so the map is super easy. Then we make the decision to either spend for the win or let it go. So far we have spent for the win, but just a little bit. Where the other team is spending for a few boss kills, diversity only works if you for sure will go for 100% no matter what.
1) (Technically this is keep not change, because it is bugged) Diversity is across BGs and not the alliance. At least a few people in the alliance can place the same champ in different BGs without punishing the AW diversity score.
2) Add back defender kills so there is at least a mathematical strategy of... do I push for a strong defensive unit that will get me defender kills or do I diversify my defence (As @Amonthir suggested). This doesn't necessarily discourage item use, it promotes the use of health pots instead of revives. (I guess from their perspective revives are higher spending).
3) Don't make us spend energy to travel through a portal. If you have to wait an hour for energy and come back, there is an increased likelihood that you end up on the wrong path because you've missed communication or simply fat fingered it.
We are easily tier 1, and the key in your statement is "until final boss nodes" you will have to spend. I get it, now you have both teams spending to go 100%, and the team that spent and leaves empty handed gets upset, hence why all the complaining on the forum. I think most of this complaining would go away, if you knew you had no shot at winning, so show the score Kabam, then an alliance can play for a steal.
We 100% easily because the last 4 teams we have played are going for diversity which makes the map super easy. Try to 100% us, it is possible but you will have to spend. Inevitably, there is one guy who doesn't want to spend and that is when we steal it in the last 15 minutes.
I understand what you're saying, but are you capable of understanding other peoples points, issues and concerns.
Yep. Already made that clear in my discussions on this thread with a member of the winning alliance in this war. I would have felt bad if they had lost, because the scoring system is ridiculous and doesn't point toward a clear winner.
Exactly this ^^^. They haven't changed the champs. But they so significantly changed the content of the game itself that many champs who people poured resources into ranking are now basically useless. I have at least four champs I ranked to R5 (that's at least 12 tier 4 class catalysts, and 20 tier 4 basis catalysts, not to mention all the t1 alphas, gold and iso I used) solely for the purpose of building an effective AW defense. Now those champs are sitting on my roster, good for nothing but supplementary use in arenas.
That is why I want them to pump up the nodes a bit, so that they actually matter. And I want new buffs, not just 'Oh, here's another 50% health, woohoo'.
I agree with this entirely I've taken a giant step back from the game I basically only log in now to clear my lanes in AQ and to claim my dailies besides that this game isn't really worth the time I used to invest into it anymore. I feel like most of us are just waiting to see what sort of changes get implemented in the next few cycles of aw and that gonna decide if we completely quit or comeback. My alliance of 30 and our 3 sister alliances again of around 30 are all on the same boat. The game has become stale and boring. It's too easy, the drive for competition is complete gone with these recent changes. Sorry to say it kabam but if things don't change in a positive way SOON. You've finished digging the grave you began to dig when you decided to release 12.0
It would be closer to you convincing me to buy a boat, and then after I do, draining the lake it is in the middle of. Still not the best analogy, but it is up to Kabam to decide if they wish to change their RDT policy, not us. We can make a case as to why they should, and that is it. That is what some people are doing (others are just begging for RDT at any chance). I think they would be a nice gesture in a small number, but only if they go to Alliance-wide diversity with no Defender kill points.