Cavalier EQ 3.2 Seeing Red Node Broken

Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
edited September 2020 in Bugs and Known Issues
Hi, my alliance mates and I are seeing several issues with the Seeing Red node in Cavalier difficulty EQ 3.2 (Magik boss quest).

1) It seems that mutants with bleed reduction aren't behaving properly with the exception of Omega Red. Magneto and Old Man Logan seem to be taking too much bleed damage.

2) It seems that Omega Red's Death Spores are preventing him from purifying the bleeds on himself and converting them to Prowess passives.

Using a Pixel 4 XL, both Android 10 and Android 11.

I have videos documenting the issues but I'm not sure if sharing links is acceptable here. Please advise.

Comments

  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    1) I used all of these champions and took 0 damage from bleeds, you needs to show some evidence of what you are seeing.
    2) this is not a bug, or reduces change of purifying effects by 10% per spore, and nodes count as the opponents kit
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    Lormif said:

    1) I used all of these champions and took 0 damage from bleeds, you needs to show some evidence of what you are seeing.
    2) this is not a bug, or reduces change of purifying effects by 10% per spore, and nodes count as the opponents kit

    Several members of my alliance and I had both Magneto and Old Man Logan die from bleed damage. Like I said, I'm not sure what the proper protocol is for sharing videos. I could do screenshots but I'm not sure that would capture the issue since it would omit context.

    Omega is supposed to prevent the enemy from purifying debuffs, not himself. The ability specifically reads "Each Death Spore lowers the opponent's Armor Rating by X and reduces their chance to Purify Debuffs by 10%."
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    I understand what you're saying about the node abilities being "opponent abilities" but that isn't always true and clearly seems to not be the intent here. The attacker is the one purifying the bleeds, so an ability that specifically prevents the defender from purifying debuffs does not seem to be working as intended.
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    Retesting Magneto and OML and it looks like the issue has been addressed with them.

    Tested with Archangel to validate whether or not Ability Accuracy Reduction would impair his ability to convert the bleeds to prowess like Omega and it looks like it does.

    This validates @Lormif 's assertion, but raises a lot of questions about intent. I can't recall other places where I've seen the attacker's Ability Accuracy Reduction shut down node effects that specifically apply to and benefit the player. It seems obvious that shutting down the opponent's ability accuracy should not impede beneficial node effects.

    I still suspect this is an unintended effect limited to the Seeing Red node itself, rather than a game-wide intended paradigm.
  • J_jones_41389J_jones_41389 Member Posts: 87 ★
    Someone said it already. The node adds to the defenders abilities or kit. Meaning the defender now has the ABILITY to apply a debuff based from contact. Thus it can be affected by a.a. reduction unless otherwise stated. There have been many videos showcasing archangel ability to shut down biohazard when enough neurotoxin
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,074 ★★★★★
    Joshkc662 said:

    Hi, my alliance mates and I are seeing several issues with the Seeing Red node in Cavalier difficulty EQ 3.2 (Magik boss quest).

    1) It seems that mutants with bleed reduction aren't behaving properly with the exception of Omega Red. Magneto and Old Man Logan seem to be taking too much bleed damage.

    2) It seems that Omega Red's Death Spores are preventing him from purifying the bleeds on himself and converting them to Prowess passives.

    Using a Pixel 4 XL, both Android 10 and Android 11.

    I have videos documenting the issues but I'm not sure if sharing links is acceptable here. Please advise.

    Magneto takes zero bleed damage.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,074 ★★★★★
    Joshkc662 said:

    Retesting Magneto and OML and it looks like the issue has been addressed with them.

    Tested with Archangel to validate whether or not Ability Accuracy Reduction would impair his ability to convert the bleeds to prowess like Omega and it looks like it does.

    This validates @Lormif 's assertion, but raises a lot of questions about intent. I can't recall other places where I've seen the attacker's Ability Accuracy Reduction shut down node effects that specifically apply to and benefit the player. It seems obvious that shutting down the opponent's ability accuracy should not impede beneficial node effects.

    I still suspect this is an unintended effect limited to the Seeing Red node itself, rather than a game-wide intended paradigm.

    You never met Blade and his Trinity. He turned of Mix Master in the Herald quests with Void.
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    J_jones_41389 said:

    Someone said it already. The node adds to the defenders abilities or kit. Meaning the defender now has the ABILITY to apply a debuff based from contact. Thus it can be affected by a.a. reduction unless otherwise stated. There have been many videos showcasing archangel ability to shut down biohazard when enough neurotoxin

    I'm not referring to Biohazard, that's clearly a detrimental effect that applies to the defender. Seeing Red is beneficial and applies to the attacker.
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    You never met Blade and his Trinity. He turned of Mix Master in the Herald quests with Void.

    Same with this one, Mix Master is a detrimental effect that applies to the defender (the effect is that they evade), not a beneficial effect that applies to the attacker.
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Magneto takes zero bleed damage.

    Yes I mentioned that I retested and this appears to be resolved.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Joshkc662 said:

    J_jones_41389 said:

    Someone said it already. The node adds to the defenders abilities or kit. Meaning the defender now has the ABILITY to apply a debuff based from contact. Thus it can be affected by a.a. reduction unless otherwise stated. There have been many videos showcasing archangel ability to shut down biohazard when enough neurotoxin

    I'm not referring to Biohazard, that's clearly a detrimental effect that applies to the defender. Seeing Red is beneficial and applies to the attacker.
    It does not matter if it is beneficial or not, if it is a trigger as a node it can be suppressed. Also dispite the node's use of pronouns it is not the attacker doing the purification, but the node, and all nodes are a part of the defenders kit while they are on defense. This means that the defender is actually allowing the purification.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Joshkc662 said:

    Lormif said:

    1) I used all of these champions and took 0 damage from bleeds, you needs to show some evidence of what you are seeing.
    2) this is not a bug, or reduces change of purifying effects by 10% per spore, and nodes count as the opponents kit

    Several members of my alliance and I had both Magneto and Old Man Logan die from bleed damage. Like I said, I'm not sure what the proper protocol is for sharing videos. I could do screenshots but I'm not sure that would capture the issue since it would omit context.

    Omega is supposed to prevent the enemy from purifying debuffs, not himself. The ability specifically reads "Each Death Spore lowers the opponent's Armor Rating by X and reduces their chance to Purify Debuffs by 10%."
    the proper protocol is you link the video from youtube...

    OR prevents the abilities of the defender from purifying, a node is an ability on the defender. Stop overthinking the pronouns.
  • Joshkc662Joshkc662 Member Posts: 25 ★
    Just took video verifying that the same dynamic doesn't affect Gwenpool in the 1.1 quest but it does affect Blade.

    Since GP's ability accuracy reduction is specific to defensive abilities, apparently under the hood the game is interpreting the scenario as the defender placing a passive Fury on the attacker whenever a bleed expires on themself.

    Again, I don't think this is intended. Especially with the philosophy behind node design shifting to include more effects that apply to the attacker as a boost, I believe that the game team would classify this as an unintended side-effect of an existing mechanic.
    Lormif said:

    OR prevents the abilities of the defender from purifying, a node is an ability on the defender. Stop overthinking the pronouns.

    Continuing to repeat that node abilities count as defender abilities is not engaging with the issue I'm raising here. I'm saying that this blanket rule seems to be creating unintended side-effects, aka bugs.

    Omega Red classifying himself as the opponent and harming himself with his own abilities is clearly not the intent of the node, particularly when he's one of the main champions they obviously had in mind as a top counter for this quest.

  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Joshkc662 said:

    Just took video verifying that the same dynamic doesn't affect Gwenpool in the 1.1 quest but it does affect Blade.

    Since GP's ability accuracy reduction is specific to defensive abilities, apparently under the hood the game is interpreting the scenario as the defender placing a passive Fury on the attacker whenever a bleed expires on themself.

    Again, I don't think this is intended. Especially with the philosophy behind node design shifting to include more effects that apply to the attacker as a boost, I believe that the game team would classify this as an unintended side-effect of an existing mechanic.

    Lormif said:

    OR prevents the abilities of the defender from purifying, a node is an ability on the defender. Stop overthinking the pronouns.

    Continuing to repeat that node abilities count as defender abilities is not engaging with the issue I'm raising here. I'm saying that this blanket rule seems to be creating unintended side-effects, aka bugs.

    Omega Red classifying himself as the opponent and harming himself with his own abilities is clearly not the intent of the node, particularly when he's one of the main champions they obviously had in mind as a top counter for this quest.

    OR is not classifying himself as the opponent. I continue to repeat because you are ignoring what I am saying. The node is not part of the attacker, it is part of the defender, so OR is not classifying himself as the opponent, defender is the one purifying. you also do not know the intent, or what they had in mind.
  • 616ers616ers Member Posts: 24 ★
    @Kabam Lyra where you at
  • LMF1745LMF1745 Member Posts: 11 ★
    Lormif said:

    Joshkc662 said:

    Just took video verifying that the same dynamic doesn't affect Gwenpool in the 1.1 quest but it does affect Blade.

    Since GP's ability accuracy reduction is specific to defensive abilities, apparently under the hood the game is interpreting the scenario as the defender placing a passive Fury on the attacker whenever a bleed expires on themself.

    Again, I don't think this is intended. Especially with the philosophy behind node design shifting to include more effects that apply to the attacker as a boost, I believe that the game team would classify this as an unintended side-effect of an existing mechanic.

    Lormif said:

    OR prevents the abilities of the defender from purifying, a node is an ability on the defender. Stop overthinking the pronouns.

    Continuing to repeat that node abilities count as defender abilities is not engaging with the issue I'm raising here. I'm saying that this blanket rule seems to be creating unintended side-effects, aka bugs.

    Omega Red classifying himself as the opponent and harming himself with his own abilities is clearly not the intent of the node, particularly when he's one of the main champions they obviously had in mind as a top counter for this quest.

    OR is not classifying himself as the opponent. I continue to repeat because you are ignoring what I am saying. The node is not part of the attacker, it is part of the defender, so OR is not classifying himself as the opponent, defender is the one purifying. you also do not know the intent, or what they had in mind.
    Regardless of the pronouns or the direction and destination of the node, it’s bugged for OR

    Also, the design team’s intention clear, as all the incoming nodes for every chapter benefit a specific class. And the node works fine for magneto

    The node is working as intended
    OR is working as intended

    The node and OR together aren’t working as intended
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