You really have to change the point system. Because it´s only about defender rating. This has nothing to do with skill or a challenging people. It is boring and it sucks so hard if you lose due to the worse rating. So there is no fair chance to increase the ranking in the alliance war. Do something but please think first then act.
I'm posting here to avoid creating another thread. Kabam mods: can we please have an update about your plans for AW? It's obvious that the current plans (1) weren't fully implemented and (2) wouldn't have solved the problems in T1-T3 even if they had been.
Here, let me help you out: we haven't rolled out the harder nodes yet, and we don't want to make changes before we give this new version of AW a chance. We continue to collect data and are looking to keep updating AW but we do want to see how the latest round of changes work before balancing it further.
That, in a nutshell, is their response.
I know that may be their response, but if so I want to hear it from them.
And to be clear -- that would be a unsatisfactory response. It's obvious that slightly harder nodes won't actually solve the problems in the current iteration of AW. And much harder nodes would solve one problem at the cost of creating others (unless they make all the very hard nodes along optional paths ... that might give some way to choose winners other than defender rating & diversity).
I was actually being sarcastic... and you bet it's unsatisfactory! It's entirely predictable and it's RUBBISH!
I find it very interesting to look at the response to Mephisto. It feels like he'd be a good defender, yet he's not being hyped very much. I see more threads complaining about bugs and AW than there are threads being pumped for this new character.
In the past, a duped Juggernaut or made me feel a bit special. Made me feel like I was contributing to my alliance. Characters like Spiderman and Nightcrawler were among the "woohoo" champs to pull because they weren't the best on attack but they were pretty decent defenders.
Now, it doesn't matter how amazing Mephisto is on defence. He's worth about as much as Black Bolt. It is like buying an expensive car as a status symbol and then finding out the company has been fiddling with emissions software and now your status is as much as the regular cars everyone else is driving. Oh, you have one? Mmhmm.
As Joel Line and many others have said, the AW change destroys the core of the game. It shrinks the pool of desirable champions at higher levels to the point where there is no thrill to opening crystals. It's like playing slots for a jackpot with no consolation prize to keep you hooked.
It's just so obvious to almost everyone I simply cannot understand why any developer would think this would be a good idea.
Allowing wars to continue with the bug on specials is unethical and unconscionable. I hope you can see why so many players think that the game is a pay to play game given the limitations and problems this bug presents.
My alliance has been as high as Tier 3 and now we are bouncing around Tier 4-5 after the changes. I am not salty about not being Tier 3 in the slightest, what I am concerned about is how AW is now pay to win.
@Kabam Miike how do you lose against a group that died 95 more times than you did...it really makes no sense. At least make defender kills the same amount of points as diversity so that you can decide which you'd like. How are these wars supposed to even be close! I get that this is all iterative so I'm really hoping defender kills come back in some fashion. There needs to be a penalty for dying....
Taking away defender kills was supposedly put in place to remove the feeling of defeat,...well my group is feeling pretty defeated right now when we completely outplay another group and watch them spam revive to victory. We literally used maybe 5-10 items as an entire alliance (if that much) and watched this whole alliance spam revives and lol to victory.
Why even play against the pay to win alliances? Why should my group even try when we go up against these same groups? You haven't changed anything with the "feeling of defeat." All that has happened is you made up a problem that nobody was having and then created a new one that everybody is having.
Examples of a win and a loss against two alliances that we had 136 more kills than (a win) and 95 more kills (a loss).
WIN - They decided to just stop spending
LOSS - they decided to keep on spending and beat us on near perfect diversity.....shows a tremendous amount of skill having carnage/2099/Kingpin as a defender....
I find it very interesting to look at the response to Mephisto. It feels like he'd be a good defender, yet he's not being hyped very much. I see more threads complaining about bugs and AW than there are threads being pumped for this new character.
In the past, a duped Juggernaut or made me feel a bit special. Made me feel like I was contributing to my alliance. Characters like Spiderman and Nightcrawler were among the "woohoo" champs to pull because they weren't the best on attack but they were pretty decent defenders.
Now, it doesn't matter how amazing Mephisto is on defence. He's worth about as much as Black Bolt. It is like buying an expensive car as a status symbol and then finding out the company has been fiddling with emissions software and now your status is as much as the regular cars everyone else is driving. Oh, you have one? Mmhmm.
As Joel Line and many others have said, the AW change destroys the core of the game. It shrinks the pool of desirable champions at higher levels to the point where there is no thrill to opening crystals. It's like playing slots for a jackpot with no consolation prize to keep you hooked.
It's just so obvious to almost everyone I simply cannot understand why any developer would think this would be a good idea.
Mephisto is actually worth less than Black Bolt at the moment. He is not giving any diversity points. Guys have lost wars by less than 20 points due to him not being counted, and giving 149 instead of 150 diversity.
@Greywarden you're not wrong in my opinion that those should be wins in a working war system, but your ally clearly hasn't adjusted to diversity wars. If you did, you'd have won both matches and defender kills wouldn't have been as lopsided.
@Greywarden you're not wrong in my opinion that those should be wins in a working war system, but your ally clearly hasn't adjusted to diversity wars. If you did, you'd have won both matches and defender kills wouldn't have been as lopsided.
We won one of those wars and lost the other. One of the points I'm trying to make with the loss is that if we maxed out diversity we wouldn't be able to reach 144 so anytime we face these guys,...we'll lose beore we even start. They will just spend to clear everything and we get stuck with the loser rewards because they have better diversity but die ALMOST 100 MORE TIMES THAN US.
There has to be some sort of penalty for dying.....
@Greywarden you're not wrong in my opinion that those should be wins in a working war system, but your ally clearly hasn't adjusted to diversity wars. If you did, you'd have won both matches and defender kills wouldn't have been as lopsided.
We won one of those wars and lost the other. One of the points I'm trying to make with the loss is that if we maxed out diversity we wouldn't be able to reach 144 so anytime we face these guys,...we'll lose beore we even start. They will just spend to clear everything and we get stuck with the loser rewards because they have better diversity but die ALMOST 100 MORE TIMES THAN US.
There has to be some sort of penalty for dying.....
Diversity is per bg and staying that way. I think your ally is confused about that, any slightly competitive ally can field 150 diversity. You actually should win every time as your defender rating is higher. Adjust for now, but keep griping for change
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
So alliances can still spam revives with no penalty?
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
I can tell you right now, without Defender Kill Points, AW 2.0 will still be utterly boring with the only tie breaker in the top tiers being defender rating.
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
I don't understand Kabams perspective at all anymore. When the big champ nerf hit the point was made that you all didn't want us to feel dependent on certain champs and wanted us to make use of other options. With this diversity I feel we have no options and are forced to use champs we don't want to. I HAVE to use the champs someone else isn't using, eventually I will HAVE to rank champs for the same reason. All that with those champs having no use but a defense placement. I feel like choice is being taken away from us and not understanding how anyone at Kabam would think thats something we would ever enjoy.
You can add all the nodes you want, increase the challenge through the roof and raise the rewards. Diversity will never be an enjoyable thing. Give us back our options
Another problem I see with diversity:
In our current alliances we are being forced to use champs no one else is using, some have or will have to rank them as well.
After doing all that, how bad is it gonna be on a player who decides they want to move to a new alliance? Odds are great that those champs they chose to rank up for diversity in their previous alliance will no longer be diverse in a new alliance.
So two options, stay forever in one alliance (even if you're looking for more than the current has to offer) or two, obviously start all over in the diversity game.
Try to meet us 1/2 way with our thoughts on diversity and all the damage it causes to us. When everyone is saying we don't want it you should't stick to your own thoughts on what you THINK is best for us. You're failing to take any feed back from us on diversity and shut down everything we say.
See where am going with this miike, you guys are failing on your goals an putting us through hell whilst ripping alliances apart cos people are just fed up an lost all faith an motivation.
People don't want to rank up crappy 4* just for diversity when 5* are apparently being made more attainable to rank up, an with 6* just round the corner. I think it's high time a Dev comes to the forum an speaks to us directly
Big problem here... and a problem that kabam seems to be completely blind to.
Member of a tier 1 alliance (2800+ rating). I hear y’all wanna make war “difficult” again. But I’m looking through the nodes, and I see the same old ****.
Not sure if y’all know this, but at a higher tier of war, WE DON’T GET HIT. We all have optimized attack teams to help us with that. The past month of “war” has been nothing but a sparring match. We don’t use items, the opponent doesn’t use items, both teams 100% even if we already know we’ve lost.
We do it because there’s nothing else to do in game.
It might surprise you but most of the top tier players are done with all the content. They have 100%ed all of act 5 (which I really like the design of, and appreciate the work y’all put into it) and are also done with 1+ lanes of LOL.
At this point I have no incentive to do my remaining 4 paths of lol considering how much time/money they cost. I don’t want another 4/55 just to stick on defense for a high defender rating.
Kabam, you’re lost touch with your more advanced players (I can go on a limb and say even a growing players feels the same way).
War HAS TO be about SKILL. Not how much I’m willing to spend on turning on suicides or buy champ boosts (if you’re wondering, it’s costing us 700 units per war, and we as an alliance decided that the last war was the last time we’re gonna fork over our hardearned units to such an idiotic system.
The other day I soloed a 4/55 dormammu war boss. I looked around, but couldn’t find a **** to give. It took our opponents 19 tries to take our boss. They won. By 100 points of defender rating.
These nodes aren't going to do anything. You think it will make things more challenging, but it won't. As long as diversity and defender rating determines the winner, war will be a bust. Yeah, AW 1.0 was getting a little stale and needed a little revamp, but this was too much. Listen to your community. Nobody is having fun in war anymore.
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
Will new champs count for diversity ? We are still not getting credit for mephisto. We need to know before n
Hey guys u didnt get it yet? Do you know how they want us to spend money? Changing everytime our masteries and buying boost before place it. Everybody are now aware about diversity, so what will make you win now its gonna be the Defender rating, So, put all your boost+ suicides.After placed it, roll back your masteries to where it was, as no one now play with suicides. So you keep doing that all the matches. Not doing that, could cost you the Win.
Setting aside the fact that setting and resetting masteries doesn't cost a lot of money, anyone crazy enough and surrounded by twenty nine other crazy enough people to do that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again can have my win. I would prefer to walk away with the loss and my sanity, thanks.
Thats what everybody has been doing so far. Btw setting and resetting masteries all the time cost a lot of units, and theres also the boost, you gotta put at least 3 different boost, even if you have some saved, its about time to start buying those boost to put it on. Diversity its not winning point anymore, everybody knows how to set up now. The defender rating is the one who make you win now, so boost+ suicides if you want to win. Thats not our fault, KABAM has forced us to adapt this horrible system.... What scary me is Why they don't listening the community.
Adapting to the system is not the same as working every angle to maintain steady Wins. There's really no judgment in that comment. Players will inevitably do whatever they can to maximize efficiency. However, that can only go so far. Let's assume that everyone does the same. Same Masteries, same Boosts. I'm sure there would be variations based on other Mastery setups, but let's assume they're the same. At that point it's dependant on the Rosters people have. Which means it depends on Ranking and progressing. As I've stated, that's how the system will be rewarding overall progression and balancing the Matches. Defender Rating is really connected to the Ranking we do.
You just made my point for me. At this point, it's all about progressing your roster to win. The most progressed roster wins every time. Bigger alliances always kill the smaller ones.
The game has always been about progressing our Rosters. While some play the Prestige Race and focus on Ranking certain Champs only, the game has always been about progressing through Ranking everything. That's why we have a Leaderboard based on Rating. In this sense, it means that progressing in War is a reflection of that as well. Not just a closed system that involves the same Champs being the focus and excluding others.
The game has always been about progressing our Rosters. While some play the Prestige Race and focus on Ranking certain Champs only, the game has always been about progressing through Ranking everything. That's why we have a Leaderboard based on Rating. In this sense, it means that progressing in War is a reflection of that as well. Not just a closed system that involves the same Champs being the focus and excluding others.
You can keep repeating the same statement but it doesn't mean its correct.
It's how the game is designed for you... and it's a really wrong way to see it if you think the game is about progressing through Ranking everything (even because you can't rank everything). The game is about ranking what is needed because there are better champs than others. Deal with it: no one is gonna rank Spider Gwen even if the last champ on their roster. We'll always save resources and wait for the next champ!
As for the Leaderboard, that absolutely means nothing at all. If your rank is better than mine, it doesn't mean you are a good or a better player.
Comments
If u see this thread die it's not because we gave in, itll be because you won't see us playing anymore
I was actually being sarcastic... and you bet it's unsatisfactory! It's entirely predictable and it's RUBBISH!
In the past, a duped Juggernaut or made me feel a bit special. Made me feel like I was contributing to my alliance. Characters like Spiderman and Nightcrawler were among the "woohoo" champs to pull because they weren't the best on attack but they were pretty decent defenders.
Now, it doesn't matter how amazing Mephisto is on defence. He's worth about as much as Black Bolt. It is like buying an expensive car as a status symbol and then finding out the company has been fiddling with emissions software and now your status is as much as the regular cars everyone else is driving. Oh, you have one? Mmhmm.
As Joel Line and many others have said, the AW change destroys the core of the game. It shrinks the pool of desirable champions at higher levels to the point where there is no thrill to opening crystals. It's like playing slots for a jackpot with no consolation prize to keep you hooked.
It's just so obvious to almost everyone I simply cannot understand why any developer would think this would be a good idea.
@Kabam Miike how do you lose against a group that died 95 more times than you did...it really makes no sense. At least make defender kills the same amount of points as diversity so that you can decide which you'd like. How are these wars supposed to even be close! I get that this is all iterative so I'm really hoping defender kills come back in some fashion. There needs to be a penalty for dying....
Taking away defender kills was supposedly put in place to remove the feeling of defeat,...well my group is feeling pretty defeated right now when we completely outplay another group and watch them spam revive to victory. We literally used maybe 5-10 items as an entire alliance (if that much) and watched this whole alliance spam revives and lol to victory.
Why even play against the pay to win alliances? Why should my group even try when we go up against these same groups? You haven't changed anything with the "feeling of defeat." All that has happened is you made up a problem that nobody was having and then created a new one that everybody is having.
Examples of a win and a loss against two alliances that we had 136 more kills than (a win) and 95 more kills (a loss).
WIN - They decided to just stop spending
LOSS - they decided to keep on spending and beat us on near perfect diversity.....shows a tremendous amount of skill having carnage/2099/Kingpin as a defender....
Mephisto is actually worth less than Black Bolt at the moment. He is not giving any diversity points. Guys have lost wars by less than 20 points due to him not being counted, and giving 149 instead of 150 diversity.
they didn't loose because they gave up. if they had continued and given you 500 kills, they would still have lost on diversity and rating.
We won one of those wars and lost the other. One of the points I'm trying to make with the loss is that if we maxed out diversity we wouldn't be able to reach 144 so anytime we face these guys,...we'll lose beore we even start. They will just spend to clear everything and we get stuck with the loser rewards because they have better diversity but die ALMOST 100 MORE TIMES THAN US.
There has to be some sort of penalty for dying.....
Diversity is per bg and staying that way. I think your ally is confused about that, any slightly competitive ally can field 150 diversity. You actually should win every time as your defender rating is higher. Adjust for now, but keep griping for change
not that I have seen yet, no.
#BringBackDefenderKillPoints
We wanted to remind you all that the Alliance Wars maps for Expert, Challenger, and Intermediate will be updated for the next session of Alliance Wars when Matchmaking returns on October 4th!
As we’ve collected data, and gathered your feedback, we have been making adjustments as we’ve gone along, each time getting closer to our goals that we’ve made for Alliance Wars, which are to make the mode more varied, fun and engaging.
As a reminder, the following nodes are getting an update:
These node adjustments will bring the difficulty of the Maps closer to where they were in the last iteration of Alliance Wars, and place more emphasis on the choices you make with Defenders and the nodes you choose to place them on.
We’ll be continuing to monitor how these changes affect Alliance Wars, and will continue to make adjustments as necessary until we make Alliance Wars into the mode we know it can be! Once you’ve had a chance to run the map a few times, pop back here to share your thoughts and provide us with your feedback on it!
So alliances can still spam revives with no penalty?
I can tell you right now, without Defender Kill Points, AW 2.0 will still be utterly boring with the only tie breaker in the top tiers being defender rating.
#BringBackDefenderKillPoints
I don't understand Kabams perspective at all anymore. When the big champ nerf hit the point was made that you all didn't want us to feel dependent on certain champs and wanted us to make use of other options. With this diversity I feel we have no options and are forced to use champs we don't want to. I HAVE to use the champs someone else isn't using, eventually I will HAVE to rank champs for the same reason. All that with those champs having no use but a defense placement. I feel like choice is being taken away from us and not understanding how anyone at Kabam would think thats something we would ever enjoy.
In our current alliances we are being forced to use champs no one else is using, some have or will have to rank them as well.
After doing all that, how bad is it gonna be on a player who decides they want to move to a new alliance? Odds are great that those champs they chose to rank up for diversity in their previous alliance will no longer be diverse in a new alliance.
So two options, stay forever in one alliance (even if you're looking for more than the current has to offer) or two, obviously start all over in the diversity game.
Try to meet us 1/2 way with our thoughts on diversity and all the damage it causes to us. When everyone is saying we don't want it you should't stick to your own thoughts on what you THINK is best for us. You're failing to take any feed back from us on diversity and shut down everything we say.
No defender kills is not fun an engaging
This new AW 2.0 is not fun an engaging
See where am going with this miike, you guys are failing on your goals an putting us through hell whilst ripping alliances apart cos people are just fed up an lost all faith an motivation.
People don't want to rank up crappy 4* just for diversity when 5* are apparently being made more attainable to rank up, an with 6* just round the corner. I think it's high time a Dev comes to the forum an speaks to us directly
Member of a tier 1 alliance (2800+ rating). I hear y’all wanna make war “difficult” again. But I’m looking through the nodes, and I see the same old ****.
Not sure if y’all know this, but at a higher tier of war, WE DON’T GET HIT. We all have optimized attack teams to help us with that. The past month of “war” has been nothing but a sparring match. We don’t use items, the opponent doesn’t use items, both teams 100% even if we already know we’ve lost.
We do it because there’s nothing else to do in game.
It might surprise you but most of the top tier players are done with all the content. They have 100%ed all of act 5 (which I really like the design of, and appreciate the work y’all put into it) and are also done with 1+ lanes of LOL.
At this point I have no incentive to do my remaining 4 paths of lol considering how much time/money they cost. I don’t want another 4/55 just to stick on defense for a high defender rating.
Kabam, you’re lost touch with your more advanced players (I can go on a limb and say even a growing players feels the same way).
War HAS TO be about SKILL. Not how much I’m willing to spend on turning on suicides or buy champ boosts (if you’re wondering, it’s costing us 700 units per war, and we as an alliance decided that the last war was the last time we’re gonna fork over our hardearned units to such an idiotic system.
The other day I soloed a 4/55 dormammu war boss. I looked around, but couldn’t find a **** to give. It took our opponents 19 tries to take our boss. They won. By 100 points of defender rating.
I guess you don’t give a **** about skill either.
Will new champs count for diversity ? We are still not getting credit for mephisto. We need to know before n
You just made my point for me. At this point, it's all about progressing your roster to win. The most progressed roster wins every time. Bigger alliances always kill the smaller ones.
The game has always been about progressing our Rosters. While some play the Prestige Race and focus on Ranking certain Champs only, the game has always been about progressing through Ranking everything. That's why we have a Leaderboard based on Rating. In this sense, it means that progressing in War is a reflection of that as well. Not just a closed system that involves the same Champs being the focus and excluding others.
You can keep repeating the same statement but it doesn't mean its correct.
As for the Leaderboard, that absolutely means nothing at all. If your rank is better than mine, it doesn't mean you are a good or a better player.