15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Thestoryteller6

Kabam Miike wrote: »

NevvB wrote: »

Dunno if it’s funny or sad that kabam doesnt understand how defender kills can impact war.

We understand how they can impact wars, but what I've gotten a lot of Private Messages about and have now seen posts of is that players are concerned that they will continue to 100% the map, and that Defender kills would fix this. This is what we're trying to avoid, a case where an Alliance is able to 100% Explore the map very easily, and even less so should it be possible for both Alliances to fully explore their opponent's maps.

We're working towards this, and will continue to make more iterations if we think that they are necessary.

Then perhaps you have not read @DNA3000 post that explains clearly how defender kills are helpful. Nor have you considered the simple logic that both teams can 100% the map but one team might die more than the other and should be penalised for it.

The fact is, the entire AW system as it stands now is rubbish. From map layout to point system to nodes. Iterations won't help, it really needs to be reconceptualised from ground up again.

fortomjk

Stop trying to make players just donate for this game and do nothing else. If you’ll do AW,that will show someone’s skill but not there pockets game will be much more better,then this Tetris for unskilled pieces of sh*t. Give us points back for death,mercantile monkeys!

Fabi

Which Alli will win? The Alli that have the most unlocked Beastmode Mastery....stupid AW changes

BCdiscman

We will have to see if these new changes make AW actually worth playing but with all due respect until defender kills are brought back AW will never be fair to players IMHO.

Vorvancos

It does not matter at all, and that's the main mistake. Try to prioritize the game and the player before earning dollars

The_Jericho

DoctorJ wrote: »

So glad i spent hours going through my battlegroups rosters and creating defender lists for diversity for it to now be negligible.

My stupidity i suppose.

Done exactly the same thing over the weekend... Ain't getting that time back!

LegionDestroier

Keep the poll ticking away team: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/23956/will-the-new-war-updates-change-anything

Jaffacaked

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Twunt wrote: »

The end all summary of this will be that you are making Defender rating and Diversity the two tie breakers. Doesn’t matter how you allocate the points. If both teams explore 100%, no skill required. The one with the higher Defender rating (now you lowered diversity points) will win. How can you have two variables to determine winners? That’s a sloppy formula.

The point of the map changes is that we want you guys to emphasize your Defenders again. Prevent the other team from getting 100% exploration.

Miike the thing you guys are missing is that you have taken all the fun out war, 99% of the players absolutely hate it. Shouldn't the main point of playing a game or game mode is to have fun an enjoy yourselves ?.

All you guys had to do was a couple of things in the previous AW 1.0 to make a huge difference an would of kept most people happy, that would of been to make Dexterity a passive effect, this would of made all those magiks an dorms more manageable for a lot of people. You guys created all these problems with the incessant need to have champs that cause unavoidable damage.

Keonex

No one can STOP an ALLIANCE from 100 percent.

The WINNER WILL STILL COME DOWN TO D RATI NG AND DIVERSITY.

If both alliances are willing to spend 100 percent will still be common especially tier 1 and tier 2 AW

LegionDestroier

Man it's just so hard to comprehend. Such a simple fix but such ignorance regarding the issue.

Yesterday my alliance faced off in a tier 2, 2 BG AW against an alliance rated a couple of million less than us. Our defence rating was 60k more. We both 100% explored. We had 67 defender kills, they had 37. My bg had an R4 5* magik boss to take down. The 10 of us cleared our bg using no potions. We had a diversity of 96, they had 100. Who would you think should win? Personally I would say us, but no, they won, because they placed 4 more diverse champs than we did. Infact, if they placed only 1 more they would of won.
The best team at war did not win (getting 100% with the most skill), the team with the most diverse defence won. Yes if the defence was more difficult they may not have cleared but looking at the node upgrades I doubt that will change much for the spenders.

And say if you had 2 equally as good teams? Both 100% diversity and exploration, what's the tie breaker? The defender rating. What a joke!! There has to be someway to determine the winner reflecting the skill of the alliance rather than who's got the highest rated squad. Hmm what could that be? Gee I don't know? Gosh I wish I knew, @Kabam Miike maybe you could help me?????

nuggz

@Kabam Miike
This is insane, pure madness....
In expert bracket There is no difficulty in AW, that will prevent a battle group from exploring 100% with boss kill and max diveristy.
The 15/15 allocated item usage in aw will not be used up in a manor where it prevents a bg from clearing the map, with this so called difficultly increase.

IT WILL STILL BE DETERMINED BY DEFENDER RATING....

UNDERSTAND THIS. WITH EVERYTHING DONE EQUALLY ON BOTH SIDES, THE ONLY DECIDING FACTOR OF WHO WINS IS DEFENDER RATING.

you Tell me how that's fair........

Quick_Silver1

So the changes will be here today. Seems like the old nodes are on steroids now. Looking forward to the challenge. Now, @Kabam Miike what about the rewards? There has been no word on if the rewards will be increasing to match the level of difficulty. Or just increase cause it's long over due. Can you comment?

Doctor_Woot

FEYi wrote: »

The chart posted doesn't match with the actual nodes in the map.

For example, the node 2 of expert map doesn' have

1. +125% Attack & Health
2. +75% Health
3. +50% Recovery
4. Adaptive

Agreed. Looks to me like they got nodes 2 and 5 the wrong way around. I can't be bothered to look for more mistakes but I bet there are....

Voluntaris

Quick_Silver1 wrote: »

So the changes will be here today. Seems like the old nodes are on steroids now. Looking forward to the challenge. Now, @Kabam Miike what about the rewards? There has been no word on if the rewards will be increasing to match the level of difficulty. Or just increase cause it's long over due. Can you comment?

sorry, old nodes are not "on steroids now" - they're still far far easier than AW 1.0 // still will be an easy 100% clear

nuggz

Again this is a WAR!!!!
In a war u come out on top from battling not from diversity and rating

unknown

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Voluntaris

Verzz wrote: »

Just going to leave this here - close war where we actually had the diversity edge by 1 but lost the war because our opponents were about 70k stronger in defence than us. We even had 5 more kills than them but it doesn't matter. I can't complain because we have won by doing the same thing also a few times but those wins seem so hollow. There is no satisfaction anymore for me even while winning.

Has anyone been trying to exchange information on line or something for defender rating and diversity? I feel like this would benefit both sides as one side would know they have the win guaranteed if they 100% the map and the other alliance would know they can stop at 85% and still get the same rewards.

since Defender Rating is the only score different in top tier wars, yes, I am aware of alliances touching base at start of attack to compare defender rating so they know from the outset which alliance will win, no matter how hard both alliances fight and clear all maps 100%.

such awful game design

#BringBackDefenderKillPoints

unknown

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Huluhula

Verzz wrote: »

Voluntaris wrote: »

Verzz wrote: »

Just going to leave this here - close war where we actually had the diversity edge by 1 but lost the war because our opponents were about 70k stronger in defence than us. We even had 5 more kills than them but it doesn't matter. I can't complain because we have won by doing the same thing also a few times but those wins seem so hollow. There is no satisfaction anymore for me even while winning.

Has anyone been trying to exchange information on line or something for defender rating and diversity? I feel like this would benefit both sides as one side would know they have the win guaranteed if they 100% the map and the other alliance would know they can stop at 85% and still get the same rewards.

since Defender Rating is the only score different in top tier wars, yes, I am aware of alliances touching base at start of attack to compare defender rating so they know from the outset which alliance will win, no matter how hard both alliances fight and clear all maps 100%.

such awful game design

#BringBackDefenderKillPoints

Thanks, I am going for to start asking the opponent for an information exchange right when attack phase starts from now on. I can't believe this is war now

Has anyone considered making a line chatroom for the top/middle/low tier alliances to compare defender ratings/diversity so that we don’t have to waste our time clearing through wars?

OnlyOneAboveAll

Kabam Miike wrote: »

JRock808 wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

great job everyone now you got kabam to make wars even harder which will not only result in diversity still being the deciding factor as well as it costing more to win. i mean without defender kills it really sucks that the maps going to be harder now.

Think about it. It's not an accident. The whole goal was to increase revenue via AW.

Our goals were to make Alliance Wars more diverse, engaging and fun. We've said this before. I know you're going to believe whatever you want to believe, but I promise you, that was not at all our goal here.

When we removed Defender kills, it's because we didn't want players to simply give up after a fight. Not playing should never be the optimal strategy. We wanted everybody to fight for the very last node. Stuck because your Alliance mate couldn't take down the link to the node in front of you? Well fight it anyways! See if you can take it down!

We've said before that getting this mode to where we want it to be will be an iterative process. So if there are more iterations that need to be made, we will. But first, we've got to get through a few days of War until we can see how this is working out.

We stopped after we died cause most of us are broke and can't afford to keep going.

Hulk_77

You know, I thought of something other than defender kills that could make War a game of skill again. You can keep the current set up even if you do it.

Remove items.

There, now attacking has a whole different strategy. Consider it as an option please.

JRock808

In actuality, diversity does not really increase the champs an individual can use. Everything is going to be coordinated by who has the highest pi version of whatever unique champ needs to be placed. In effect this has locked me in to the 5 same defenders every war.

I can no longer try to throw a curveball by placing an unexpected champ somewhere. The spreadsheet dictates my every defensive option. I am told who to place in order to not lose the war for the alliance and that is it.

I have no options, other than to try to out pi an existing defensive champ or cost the alliance points and the win.

So how am I given more options for whom to place and where? I'm not. I'm told what to place, and the node is basically irrelevant.

This is not true diversity, it's affirmative action, forcing us to employ lesser qualified candidates in order to meet a quota.

LocoMotives

Using "defender rating" in a significant manner is also a poor idea. I know it was in AW since its inception, but the wars it actually affected were minimal. Using suicide masteries (which actually makes defenders worse) or boosts when placing should have no bearing on a war. Defender rating should be prestige based, cut the tricks out of war.

I also still have questions regarding the detect masteries. What does Kabam intend to do about these masteries that no longer have in-game value?

I agree with most other sentiments regarding "increased difficulty" not being enough and the need for defender kills even with reduced points for diversity. Not dying is the single most important skill in this game, it should have value. The previous war iteration had a system where the attacking team was net positive as long as you died at a node 4 or less times. Change the ratio to higher if needed, but it needs to exist or there's no point in placing "good" defenders at high tiers.

Magn3th3ad

If you want to promote diversity, and use it as a tie breaker, why not award more points to players who win fights with unique champs in attack, not just defence? If someone can clear their line using the worst champs in the game, then they should be more highly rewarded for their skill.

This will make AW a more skill based game mode, will increase diversity, and make people a little less salty about pulling a garbage champ from a 5* crystal in the future (even if it's just a little bit).

GroundedWisdom

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Brr762 wrote: »

Without defender kills, defender rating is still going to be the deciding factor.

Shared this theory in another Thread. Rather than retype it, I'm just going to post a screenshot.

That's not a theory. That is an observation. If the alliances with higher rated defenders win more wars than they lose, the tier sorting algorithm will sort them into higher tiers, and by definition everyone else into lower tiers, with alliance defender rating acting indirectly by affecting the win/loss record. That's a given.

The problem is, there's no good justification for making that change. If the devs arbitrarily started giving additional points to alliances with defensive champions that were taller, you could say the exact same thing. The height of the champions was "balancing" the alliances into a new configuration, and eventually the taller alliances would be matched up with other taller alliances and their scoring would become more even. Growth would come from alliances growing their rosters, acquiring an increasingly large percentage of the tall champions.

The fact that we could make that observation doesn't make it a good thing to happen.

It's actually a good thing from my perspective. Advancing in War Tiers is a reflection in part, of advancing in the game. I don't want to argue too much about it. That's my opinion.
It's still a theory because we haven't seen enough results to call it an observation. That will be seen over time.

Couldn't disagree more. You will advance in the game over time whether or not you are actually good at it. I know people with incredible rosters who aren't actually good at the game. War, alliance vs. alliance, should not be about which alliance has had better luck with crystals or who has played longer, it should be about which alliance is better. No interest in the kind of war you seem to be advocating.

Skill has very little to do with what you're talking about. It's RNG. Roll the right Champs, invest in them, fill the BGs, and watch the kills accumulate. That was exactly what your are describing, luck through the Crystals.
I'm sorry, but the removal of Defender Kills and Diversity are beneficial in my mind and we will have to disagree.

Brandonius

OnlyOneAboveAll wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

JRock808 wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

great job everyone now you got kabam to make wars even harder which will not only result in diversity still being the deciding factor as well as it costing more to win. i mean without defender kills it really sucks that the maps going to be harder now.

Think about it. It's not an accident. The whole goal was to increase revenue via AW.

Our goals were to make more money.

When we removed Defender kills, it's because we didn't want players to simply give up after a fight. We want them to use items. To buy units. To spend spend spend! Not playing should never be the optimal strategy. We wanted everybody to fight for the very last node. Stuck because your Alliance mate couldn't take down the link to the node in front of you? Well fight it anyways! See if you can take it down! USE ALL 15 ITEMS! AND MAKE THEM BIG ONES!!

We stopped after we died cause most of us are broke and can't afford to keep going.

There, Miike’s Post has been translated.

Kpatrix

Matchmaking starts soon, will we be able to do that without update @Kabam Miike

FPC3

JRock808 wrote: »

In actuality, diversity does not really increase the champs an individual can use. Everything is going to be coordinated by who has the highest pi version of whatever unique champ needs to be placed. In effect this has locked me in to the 5 same defenders every war.

I can no longer try to throw a curveball by placing an unexpected champ somewhere. The spreadsheet dictates my every defensive option. I am told who to place in order to not lose the war for the alliance and that is it.

I have no options, other than to try to out pi an existing defensive champ or cost the alliance points and the win.

So how am I given more options for whom to place and where? I'm not. I'm told what to place, and the node is basically irrelevant.

This is not true diversity, it's affirmative action, forcing us to employ lesser qualified candidates in order to meet a quota.

This.

Brandonius

Kabam is just hang diversity as a cover to eliminate defender kills points. We all know this. May as well close the discussion really as it isn’t gonna change. They can’t seem to admit when they made a mistake as kill points should always be the deciding factor

unknown

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