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Loot boxed (cav crystals) Might become illegal

2

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Mike192 said:

    They are already made illegal in NEtherlands. Watch YongYea who does lots of research and provides qualitative insight on such matters. Its labelled as gambling and if EA loses, which they will, the case, it will become tougher

    It's not labeled Gambling in Canada where the Plaintiffs come from, or the United States.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    They are already made illegal in NEtherlands. Watch YongYea who does lots of research and provides qualitative insight on such matters. Its labelled as gambling and if EA loses, which they will, the case, it will become tougher

    It's not labeled Gambling in Canada where the Plaintiffs come from, or the United States.
    Thats exactly what the lawsuit is for, to label lootbox games as gambling since they have an RNG aspect and are allowed to sell (illegally). And the game will not end or shutdown, it will just be for 18+ with stricter ways of ensuring the players are 18+ only. There will still be ways to get around it, such as an older brother or cousin or distant relative allowing the use of their ID card to allow an under 18 kid to play the game. At the end of the day, the damage would not be too great
    No. The Lawsuit is claiming they're running a Gambling Business illegally (without a license). They're going to lose because it's not. We can argue until the cows come home on whether we think it qualifies as Gambling, but under the Law, it is not. It's not even Gambling by definition. There's no payout. Not any kind that we own.
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,938 ★★★★★
    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    They are already made illegal in NEtherlands. Watch YongYea who does lots of research and provides qualitative insight on such matters. Its labelled as gambling and if EA loses, which they will, the case, it will become tougher

    It's not labeled Gambling in Canada where the Plaintiffs come from, or the United States.
    Thats exactly what the lawsuit is for, to label lootbox games as gambling since they have an RNG aspect and are allowed to sell (illegally). And the game will not end or shutdown, it will just be for 18+ with stricter ways of ensuring the players are 18+ only. There will still be ways to get around it, such as an older brother or cousin or distant relative allowing the use of their ID card to allow an under 18 kid to play the game. At the end of the day, the damage would not be too great
    No. The Lawsuit is claiming they're running a Gambling Business illegally (without a license). They're going to lose because it's not. We can argue until the cows come home on whether we think it qualifies as Gambling, but under the Law, it is not. It's not even Gambling by definition. There's no payout. Not any kind that we own.
    You know why it doesnt apply as Gambling under the law? Because the law hasn't factored in for virtual gambling via lootbox mechanic - something thats new and barely existed a decade ago. Thats exactly what the lawsuit is for. If you watch YongYea's videos over the past 3 months, you would easily agree its gambling. Even the courts have presented evidence that links Lootboxes as a form of gambling. EVIDENCE. And all EA has for rebuttal is 'we dont agree with evidence' But thats not how evidence works. You can actually go and sell EA sports games based accounts, which is against ToS but EA does little to monitor it. So does Kabam. Again, you are speaking with little to no knowledge about this. You havent done the research or studied the correlation and/or causation between the 2 hence you are less informed about it.
    EA has tough lawyers, and their TOS will be all the evidence they need
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    edited November 2020
    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Mike192 said:

    They are already made illegal in NEtherlands. Watch YongYea who does lots of research and provides qualitative insight on such matters. Its labelled as gambling and if EA loses, which they will, the case, it will become tougher

    It's not labeled Gambling in Canada where the Plaintiffs come from, or the United States.
    Thats exactly what the lawsuit is for, to label lootbox games as gambling since they have an RNG aspect and are allowed to sell (illegally). And the game will not end or shutdown, it will just be for 18+ with stricter ways of ensuring the players are 18+ only. There will still be ways to get around it, such as an older brother or cousin or distant relative allowing the use of their ID card to allow an under 18 kid to play the game. At the end of the day, the damage would not be too great
    No. The Lawsuit is claiming they're running a Gambling Business illegally (without a license). They're going to lose because it's not. We can argue until the cows come home on whether we think it qualifies as Gambling, but under the Law, it is not. It's not even Gambling by definition. There's no payout. Not any kind that we own.
    You know why it doesnt apply as Gambling under the law? Because the law hasn't factored in for virtual gambling via lootbox mechanic - something thats new and barely existed a decade ago. Thats exactly what the lawsuit is for. If you watch YongYea's videos over the past 3 months, you would easily agree its gambling. Even the courts have presented evidence that links Lootboxes as a form of gambling. EVIDENCE. And all EA has for rebuttal is 'we dont agree with evidence' But thats not how evidence works. You can actually go and sell EA sports games based accounts, which is against ToS but EA does little to monitor it. So does Kabam. Again, you are speaking with little to no knowledge about this. You havent done the research or studied the correlation and/or causation between the 2 hence you are less informed about it.
    You can keep citing that video all you like, but I know what the Law is in my own country. I live where the Laws are made. Everytime this subject comes up, select few who think RNG is the devil keep asserting that the game is Gambling with an evangelical fervor. The ONLY thing that matters is the Law, and the only thing this Lawsuit accomplishes is the same as previous ones. A false claim that will be dismissed. Anyone can open a Lawsuit. That doesn't give it basis. This is hardly anything that will make it to the Supreme Court. All this boils down to is a couple of guys who are unhappy they didn't get what they wanted. Good luck making the sale of software that doesn't belong to people as viable proof of ownership in a Court of Law.
    Yes, the law matters. Laws are created when new exploits, abuses or unjust business practices come up. Lootbox is new and the law hasn't caught up to it yet. It is being considered to be linked to gambling and there are studies that suggest so. Your opinion at the end doesn't matter, neither does mine because EVIDENCE conclusively suggests the correlation. The lawsuit hasn't been dismissed, in fact EA had no rebuttal. Also, you saying 'couple guys not happy' cant be further from the truth. You haven't read about it, how kids have emptied their parents bank accounts, how a gambling addict tried to curb his addiction by playing video games, only to end gambling in another form, how addiction is something that just can't be turned off or on.

    Your response clearly suggests you have 0 to little idea about how this impacted, yet here you are presenting your opinion while there is evidence of the exact opposite. In fact, you don't even know what people are talking about here. People are saying these games should be labelled as gambling and 18+ (or outright illegal in numerous Asian countries) yet here you are talking about RNG and software. See, you need to read more before going full keyboard warrior mode.
    No. That's what you're asserting. Based on your own label of what you believe it to be. What we're discussing is a Class Action Lawsuit that claims EA is running a Gambling Business illegally. I know exactly what I'm talking about. It's not Gambling. Nor would it be classified as such here in Canada. We have very specific definitions of what Gambling is, and it is regulated quite diligently. Once again, you can keep expressing your own opinion, but you have yet to provide evidence of what your ownership is in anything you're spending on. There is no payout. You cannot regulate something that does not entitle the User to anything. You can't even argue for an Age of Majority equal to Gambling until you prove that it is in fact, Gambling. Which it is not. By all means, keep saying it is if you feel that way. Feelings are not always reality. As for numerous Asian countries, they have stringent views in general on the subject, which aren't necessarily shared by the rest of the world.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    It’s really pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

    Game developer gives players a choice to save time, or a chance to get further ahead by spending money.

    Player makes the choice and decides to spend money.

    Player regrets spending money, says it’s the developer’s fault for giving them the choice.

    Seriously? Where’s the accountability for the decisions people make nowadays?

    Agreed. People need to take responsibility for their own spending. Somewhere in the back of their minds I'm sure there's the idea that if they remove the RNG, they'll get what they want all the time.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    What resale value? You're literally just making things up.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    edited November 2020
    Read the Terms of Service. Get to know who owns said value.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    You're talking in circles. You're suggesting that they'll consider changing the Laws here in Canada, and in the U.S., by using the illegal sale of Accounts as proof that what we spend on in Loot Boxes has actual value to us. I mean, I couldn't make this #### up if I tried.
    I don't care what angle your videos suggest, or what other countries have decided. It's not going to fly in any Court of Law over here. Certainly not with the resale of property not belonging to individuals. Our Accounts, not ours, our purchases, still Kabam's. You can illegally buy or sell your Account, but it still, has, and will always, belong to Kabam. Copyright, Trademark, Patent, and Proprietary.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    If you actually believe what you're saying, then I really don't have anything left to say because it's not based in reality at all. It's not Gambling. It doesn't fit the criteria here. You can't even regulate it in any way that applies to Gambling because of that. It's not happening. If you want to keep waving that torch, then you just fight the good fight. Even if they gave it an Age of Majority, which you can't regulate on platforms which the game is played on, that's not going to solve anything. There will still be the same butt hurt people over 18 spending on it that won't take responsibility for their own choices.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,234 ★★★★★
    No it doesn't fit the criteria of Gambling. You're not playing a game of chance for anything of value to you. Nothing. You're spinning a random outcome that gives permission to use a certain aspect of Kabam's product. You're not purchasing anything for ownership. Not even in Offers which contain no Loot Boxes. Nothing.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 10,124 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    No it doesn't fit the criteria of Gambling. You're not playing a game of chance for anything of value to you. Nothing. You're spinning a random outcome that gives permission to use a certain aspect of Kabam's product. You're not purchasing anything for ownership. Not even in Offers which contain no Loot Boxes. Nothing.

    It stil gambling ever thing with a change is a gambling regardless of wher the tos said. But stop aguement no point it be in the same cycle
This discussion has been closed.