15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Aslw

Yeah great wooooork woooohooooo, ignoring 99% of the community and continue ruin the War. Srsly Kabam you are not on the right way, the community just want Defkills back and not Nodebuff over Nodebuff

Raa

Same rewards? @Kabam Miike

MSRDLD

Wrongsword wrote: »

EVERY CHANGE is exactly the same this is so frustrating.

- MCOC community: we need defender kills back in AW to encourage placing strong defenders
- Kabam Miike: Got it! We made the nodes marginally more difficult
- MCOC community: no we still 100% every war we need defender kills to count
- Kabam Miike: Thanks for the feedback community, we gave a couple nodes critical boost
- MCOC community: that doesn't change anything, bring back defender kills
- Kabam Miike: OK we hear your feedback, we made a couple nodes have limber 10%

So glad Kabam is keeping all the player feedback to one thread so you can pay such very close attention to player concerns

This is so true, lol.

They keep feeding us the same **** sandwich with a little more lettuce on it each time and tell us it's better than it was before.

Skellington

Kabam Miike wrote: »

As we said in the very post that you quoted, we know there are still aspects missing, and we are still working on them. We've been looking at a number of options and have been making lots of progress, but this will take further iterations before we hit those goals that both you and we have for AW.[/color]

How long are we supposed to wait? This is the 3rd/4th update and you guys are still chasing the same, obvious problem without any results and yet you still can't listen to the community. Are we just going to wait here another 2 weeks for you guys to change the nodes again and again?

AndyB1985

As my comment was deleted, the CoC community needs to come together and hit Kabam's wallet. Only then will you see the changes you want to see in a game you enjoy playing.

Evdaddy

I just dont understand. There are over 3k comments here basically saying the same thing. What kind of dev team wouldnt take that into consideration.

Plantesan

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Summoners!

The time has come for us to share with you the next iteration of difficulty adjustments on the Hard, Challenger, and Expert Maps of Alliance Wars!

As we’ve been working towards our previously stated goals of making Alliance Wars a more diverse and engaging mode, we’ve done a few iterations of difficulty adjustments on these three maps, and each time have gotten closer to making the Defender Rating and Diversity the tie breaking mechanisms that we had always wanted them to be.

We feel that we are now very close to the intended level of difficulty for these maps, and have moved a lot of emphasis back to effective Defender choice and Placement. We are now ready to make smaller refinements to nodes and overall difficulty to get the difficulty level exactly where we want it to be.

These changes will come into effect when matchmaking resumes on November 8th.

While these refinements will bring us even closer to where we want the mode to be, we aren’t done yet. We realize that there are still some aspects of Alliance Wars that you all feel are missing, and are continuing to work on further iterations of Alliance Wars that will address those concerns. We will also continue to monitor these difficulty adjustments, and will continue to iterate as necessary.

Initial opinion: Excellent! The team is adding more polish to the new pile of dog-poo being shoved down our throats.
If you are going to make the nodes harder, TAKE OFF THE DEFENDER’ CLASS INDICATOR

@Kabam Miike or to whoever could answer this: Has there been consideration to adjusting the points given to make defender kills somewhat relevant again? Or has that been tossed into a dumpster and torched?

Madman_marvin

Plantesan wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Summoners!

The time has come for us to share with you the next iteration of difficulty adjustments on the Hard, Challenger, and Expert Maps of Alliance Wars!

As we’ve been working towards our previously stated goals of making Alliance Wars a more diverse and engaging mode, we’ve done a few iterations of difficulty adjustments on these three maps, and each time have gotten closer to making the Defender Rating and Diversity the tie breaking mechanisms that we had always wanted them to be.

We feel that we are now very close to the intended level of difficulty for these maps, and have moved a lot of emphasis back to effective Defender choice and Placement. We are now ready to make smaller refinements to nodes and overall difficulty to get the difficulty level exactly where we want it to be.

These changes will come into effect when matchmaking resumes on November 8th.

While these refinements will bring us even closer to where we want the mode to be, we aren’t done yet. We realize that there are still some aspects of Alliance Wars that you all feel are missing, and are continuing to work on further iterations of Alliance Wars that will address those concerns. We will also continue to monitor these difficulty adjustments, and will continue to iterate as necessary.

Initial opinion: Excellent! The team is adding more polish to the new pile of dog-poo being shoved down our throats.
If you are going to make the nodes harder, TAKE OFF THE DEFENDER’ CLASS INDICATOR

@Kabam Miike or to whoever could answer this: Has there been consideration to adjusting the points given to make defender kills somewhat relevant again? Or has that been tossed into a dumpster and torched?

Unfortunately I think that’s what happens.

R4GE

@Kabam Miike Will we now be seeing the increase to rewards mentioned forever ago?

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

NMEONES wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Summoners!

The time has come for us to share with you the next iteration of difficulty adjustments on the Hard, Challenger, and Expert Maps of Alliance Wars!

As we’ve been working towards our previously stated goals of making Alliance Wars a more diverse and engaging mode, we’ve done a few iterations of difficulty adjustments on these three maps, and each time have gotten closer to making the Defender Rating and Diversity the tie breaking mechanisms that we had always wanted them to be.

We feel that we are now very close to the intended level of difficulty for these maps, and have moved a lot of emphasis back to effective Defender choice and Placement. We are now ready to make smaller refinements to nodes and overall difficulty to get the difficulty level exactly where we want it to be.

These changes will come into effect when matchmaking resumes on November 8th.

While these refinements will bring us even closer to where we want the mode to be, we aren’t done yet. We realize that there are still some aspects of Alliance Wars that you all feel are missing, and are continuing to work on further iterations of Alliance Wars that will address those concerns. We will also continue to monitor these difficulty adjustments, and will continue to iterate as necessary.

@Kabam Miike are u kidding me? This changes nothing once again. I can't believe it's taking you guys this long to realize what actually needs to be done. STOP CHANGING THE NODES. YOUR NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. THE MAP WILL STILL BE 100% AND WHOEVER HAS HIGHER RATING AND DIVERSITY WILL WIN. I can't tell you how annoying it is to not push to win an alliance war because you don't know if you'll win because of defender rating. What do you guys not understand about this, I mean u created the damn game. You need to bring back defender kills, at least in tier 1 & 2. We need to be able to win based on skill. Not who has higher rating or a bigger wallet. Get with the program man, this is getting ridiculous.

As we said in the very post that you quoted, we know there are still aspects missing, and we are still working on them. We've been looking at a number of options and have been making lots of progress, but this will take further iterations before we hit those goals that both you and we have for AW.

I can't speak for @NMEONES but I can say that for anyone who has been basically agreeing with my position that there are a lot of players that want AW to be focused on attacker-centric competitive performance, you have not been making any progress on that request, no amount of node iterations will make any progress on that, and I don't think Kabam is even acknowledging that this should be a goal of AW.

Maybe my posts are too long to read. This is the shortest version of the problem I can express:

1. If two alliances explore the same amount and kill the same amount of nodes, we want the system to award more points to the alliance that did so with better performance, by some measure of performance. We do not want this to be considered a "tie" when there are other ways to determine which side was the better attacker.

2. When an alliance places defenders, for every node on the map there should be more than one obvious "best defender."

3. For every node on the map, there should be a strong incentive to place the strongest possible available defender, even if that defender won't be an obvious path-stopper.

4. Pure ties should be rare, and wars should almost never be decided by factors that were determined before the attack phase started.

I can only speak for myself, but I think there are a lot of players with similar concerns, and our biggest concern right now is that we're being told that progress is being made when exactly zero progress is being made on our concerns, which feels like we're being ignored and Kabam is just hoping we go away. Because when you say "you and we" have goals, and we (those of us) don't feel like we're a part of the "you and we" you're referring to, that feels extremely dismissive.

Plantesan

I’m aware this is not going to happen, but im wondering how AW matches would look like if revives were disabled?

hurricant

R_I_C_E wrote: »

"Defender Rating and Diversity the tie breaking mechanisms that we had always wanted them to be."

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO NOT WANT.

The tie-breaker should be based on Skill.

I repeat. The tie-breaker should be based on Skill.

One. More. Time. The tie-breaker should be based on Skill.

Top Tier alliances will always have perfect defender diversity. It should not come down to who has the highest rated champs.

The tie-breaker should be based on Skill.

So you're saying tie breakers should be decided by whoever ranks more people?

Stewman

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Node 24 is working correctly, but definitely requires planning ahead! It's a hard node for sure, but it is beatable.

WOW.

unknown

This content has been removed.

hungama01

what you guys think.... you making unnecessary changes... their is no alliance in tier 1 hard map playing diversity game.... diversity is just an excuse the main intension is make node tougher for all those mystic champ nc spider hypersion so that it make your wallet more strong because you know their is no alliance playing diversity game in that hard maps....tougher nodes mystic champs nc spider etc mean more money....

if you would think of diversity you surely would have made changes in points system....
the change will come for sure but this change will be done by mcoc players by saying bye bye to you and almost many are doing that...

you took all the fun of game... the best content of game got killed... really sad...

ChiSox_2005

Here

we go again. Out explored and had 17 more defender kills and lost to Diversity simply because our Oppone t was willing to spend to win. This is total B.S.! Bring back Defender Kills. You're still keeping track of them and it evens the playing field for those willing to buy victories. This is a total **** show.

tlh

Why are the rewards still the same?

GroundedWisdom

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

hurricant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Troll_slayer wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Actually it does. One of the concerns was how the Map can be completed easily, and it always boils down to Defender Rating.

Wrong, that was never their intended goal. Diversity was meant to be that but now they are just adding words to cover themselves

Defender Rating was introduced as a Tie Breaker a long time ago. It's been around for a long time and has always been intended to be a Tie Breaker, as well as to encourage Summoners to place their best Defenders.

A tie breaker is something that decides the winner of a contest, if and only if, there is an actual tie. Defender rating is not a tie breaker. If Defender rating is a tie breaker than the three point shot in basketball is a tie breaker.

It has been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean it is functioning in the same way as before. In 14.0 defender rating points were small relative to the margin of victory counting all other points, so it was a small nudge factor. In 15.0+ the margin of victory is far smaller than it used to be, which essentially means defender rating points are far larger now than they used to be on a relative basis.

It does not encourage Summoners to place their best defenders. It encourages them to place their highest rated defenders, which is not the same thing. And in 15.0 it practically demanded that they do so, while in 16.0 its now an afterthought, after first looking at blockade placement.

GroundedWisdom

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

hurricant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

937Ladyk22

Definitely bring back defender kills. We had an alliance today that revived there entire team trying to beat us multiple times. Our defenders had over 100 kills. We went back to using top defenders like before the maps got changed and diversity hasn't been a problem. Because now the other alliance can't finish our maps but we are still able to finish theirs and get boss kill plus exploration now.

Skellington

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

How about change the rewards first for us so we can be less angry? THAT'S called logic.

GroundedWisdom

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense. It's the same for resolving issues. They don't issue compensation until after they're resolved. It's been mentioned that Rewards will be looked at later. It doesn't make sense to increase the Rewards until the system is as close to the end goal as possible.

Munrolm02

Can you believe this LOL I've read thousands of comments and all people want our points for a Defender kill. Even just one simple Point per Defender kill. So what do they do they make the note even harder that has nothing to do with what the community wants lol it takes 0 amount of skill to spend money that is a big insult to the players that are finishing Maps with 50 kills against them or less versus a team that has over 200 Defender kills. These guys at Kabam headquarters don't listen to anybody besides themselves

NevvB

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense. It's the same for resolving issues. They don't issue compensation until after they're resolved. It's been mentioned that Rewards will be looked at later. It doesn't make sense to increase the Rewards until the system is as close to the end goal as possible.

Makes sense. Thats why we have never gotten compensation the past months cause nothing has ever been resolved.

Guess we can continue to wait forever cause it seems like nothing is getting fixed.

TheBaldAvenger

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense. It's the same for resolving issues. They don't issue compensation until after they're resolved. It's been mentioned that Rewards will be looked at later. It doesn't make sense to increase the Rewards until the system is as close to the end goal as possible.

Is that why we don’t get any form of compensation anymore even tho there have been a lot more issues over the last few months @KabamWisdom?

GroundedWisdom

NevvB wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense. It's the same for resolving issues. They don't issue compensation until after they're resolved. It's been mentioned that Rewards will be looked at later. It doesn't make sense to increase the Rewards until the system is as close to the end goal as possible.

Makes sense. Thats why we have never gotten compensation the past months cause nothing has ever been resolved.

Guess we can continue to wait forever cause it seems like nothing is getting fixed.

I wasn't really implying it's the same thing. Just an example. It's the same line of thinking. If things are still in process, it's not prudent to revisit the Rewards yet. Otherwise you have varying Resources coming from a changing state.

TheBaldAvenger

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

NevvB wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

hurricant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

tlh wrote: »

Why are the rewards still the same?

I'm assuming they're making sure the adjustments are finished before they look at the Rewards.

Are you contractually obligated to only defend them?

I'm not contractually obligated to them at all. As for defending them, it's called using logic. What's the sense of adjusting the Rewards before they're finished making adjustments?

Because they can always say they are making changes in the future, and that shouldn't stop them from increasing rewards since they increased the difficulty like 4 times already

I'm sorry but that logic doesn't make sense. It's the same for resolving issues. They don't issue compensation until after they're resolved. It's been mentioned that Rewards will be looked at later. It doesn't make sense to increase the Rewards until the system is as close to the end goal as possible.

Makes sense. Thats why we have never gotten compensation the past months cause nothing has ever been resolved.

Guess we can continue to wait forever cause it seems like nothing is getting fixed.

I wasn't really implying it's the same thing. Just an example. It's the same line of thinking. If things are still in process, it's not prudent to revisit the Rewards yet. Otherwise you have varying Resources coming from a changing state.

Or they could scale the rewards each time they increase the difficulty. I’d like to see my boss try to keep increasing my workload without increasing my pay.