Alliance Wars Discussion 2.0

Hey All,

Since so much has changed since we first introduced the new Alliance Wars Map and scoring method, most of the information contained within is no longer relevant. We're starting a new discussion thread on Alliance Wars here.

You can still find the old thread archived here.

Comments

teekq

Then they shouldn’t call it war. If defender kill don’t count. They should call it alliance how much to win.

Raganator

teekq wrote: »

Then they shouldn’t call it war. If defender kill don’t count. They should call it alliance how much to win.

Or maybe just call it Roster Wars.

WOK

@Lurker I for one believe that an "all stop" is THE only action that could have any chance to get Kabams attn as it has proved in the past. Only problem I see currently is that despite the complaints, allys have been consistently playing AW. I would hope I'm wrong, but not so sure the entire community is willing to come together and forgo the rewards and gameplay in order to get our msg across.

Kpatrix

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

War is about Points. Working together as a team to gain more Points. It's not about who dies less. "You died more than us so we're better than you.", is not the focus of Wars. The metrics used to include Defender Kills. Now they don't. Which means the issue is where the Points are coming from, and including a different element that accommodates interaction. The focus has been on Defender Kills so long that people have lost sight of the fact that the point is to make it as far as you can as a team, and have the best chance at a collective Win. People may take pride in those numbers, but the only thing that matters is the Points. Penalizing Kills and Item Use is not fair or sensible. Not in the extreme that it was. We need to have suggestions outside of Defender Kills. At the end of the day it's about working as a team for Points. Not shaming the opponent for having to Revive.

Maybe they shouldn't call it war if it's not about not dying lol. It's War! War is about conquest, not points. I feel like there are some things game related where you can be against the overwhelming opinion of the player base and still be right. I was against the complaining about the Boss Rush and said it would take ten minutes and I got mocked on the forum... turns out I was right. I was for the willpower nerf and the end of the perfect block team and got killed by the majority and it turns out that that was for the best. Kabam isn't always wrong. You seem to take the Kabam line wherever it goes, however, and in this case it's caused you to argue a point that really doesn't make sense. The bottom line for war is really about whether it's fun or not. For the overwhelming majority of the player base, this version of war isn't war and isn't fun. We've had enough iterations to see where it's going and we don't want to go there. We like the old version better. We like the first flawed change better then the current version and find that subsequent iterations have made it worse. We don't want a spend to win war, and say what you want, but in the old version we beat the hell out of some big spenders and laughed at their wasted potion spree. Because skill and defender kills. In what way is penalizing kills not sensible in war lmao. Read that sentence you wrote. It's war but dying shouldn't matter? Anyway, war should be for the players and the players have spoken. We want defender kills and we aren't going to stop wanting defender kills, and no iteration that allows alliances to use all their items to beat a better group is going to satisfy us.
#defender kills

I am not "taking Kabam's side". I happen to agree with the removal of them, and there are many reasons for that. There is a great deal I'd like to say on the matter, but I'm not interested in adding fuel to the fire. If the only enjoyment people got out of War was watching the opponent die more, that's a problem in and of itself. Since you speak about enjoyment, that's what you're saying. In actuality, it's not about enjoyment. It's about the Wins that Defender Kills gave. All the talk about skill and enjoyment is pretty one-sided to me. War has never been about Defender Kills. Not by design. It became that over time, as new Champs and Nodes allowed for greater Kills. Sorry that you feel I don't make sense, but I'm editing because my plain thoughts would no doubt get people going, and I'm ready to move on in the discussion. They're gone. It's time to move on.

War has always been about skill and defender kills, all the way back to beta when there were 2* wars and Trojan wars. Whoever died the fewest times would win. That was the point, to determine who had the best skills. It didn't matter if it was 50 fights or just one, whoever made it through with the least amount of ko's would be the winner.

The only issue with defender kills was you took one when you timed out or got disconnected. The newest iteration with harder nodes isn't going to change anything. People will still be discouraged after loosing their team on some jacked up node and will see that the rewards don't equal the cost of items used so they will stop trying. Instead of giving defender kill points, you're forfeiting exploration points. If both teams create equal roadblocks and are stuck with the same amount of exploration, defender rating will still be the only determining factor.

The whole meta is just like AQ, whoever has the highest prestige gets the top prize. Nobody wins wars anymore, they are just given rank rewards in a two rank system. It is not competitive as the results are as scripted as professional wrestling. We want to have the ability to control the outcome with skill, not by buying units for boosts and mastery resets.

WOK

@GroundedWisdom , I'd like to ask you a question regarding your comment "war is about points. Working together as a team to gain more points".

With the recent acknowledgment that using boosts prior to placement will indeed result in the "ballooned" PI being reflected in the overall D rating.
Would this also be considered your idea of a team interacting to go as far as we can as a team to collectively gain points for the win. And is this considered to be another fair and sensible addition to the new system as opposed to D kills which in your opinion were not?

GroundedWisdom

WOK wrote: »

@GroundedWisdom , I'd like to ask you a question regarding your comment "war is about points. Working together as a team to gain more points".

With the recent acknowledgment that using boosts prior to placement will indeed result in the "ballooned" PI being reflected in the overall D rating.
Would this also be considered your idea of a team interacting to go as far as we can as a team to collectively gain points for the win. And is this considered to be another fair and sensible addition to the new system as opposed to D kills which in your opinion were not?

Two separate issues, but if it's allowed, then I see no issue with it. It's about Points. Anyone can use Boosts. It's not some exclusive action. You're comparing two different aspects. Placement and Attack. Champs are placed in Defense and locked there. There is team work in that the Ally organizes and plans together, but the team work I was referring to has to do with Attack Phase and clearing the Map.

GroundedWisdom

For that matter, using Boosts only goes so far. The PI can only be inflated so much. If Allies are making it a common practice, then it will still boil down to their Rating because you can only Boost so far. At 0.002 Points per PI, it's really not going to accumulate what I would call an unfair advantage.

Mwhitaker23

when did they change the fact we can see our opponents defenders now? I cant find anything on the forums about it

Sirnoob

Mwhitaker23 wrote: »

when did they change the fact we can see our opponents defenders now? I cant find anything on the forums about it

http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/31133/an-important-announcement-from-the-mcoc-team#latest

SCZ

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

For that matter, using Boosts only goes so far. The PI can only be inflated so much. If Allies are making it a common practice, then it will still boil down to their Rating because you can only Boost so far. At 0.002 Points per PI, it's really not going to accumulate what I would call an unfair advantage.

This shows how little you actually understand about top tier AW.

GroundedWisdom

SCZ wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

For that matter, using Boosts only goes so far. The PI can only be inflated so much. If Allies are making it a common practice, then it will still boil down to their Rating because you can only Boost so far. At 0.002 Points per PI, it's really not going to accumulate what I would call an unfair advantage.

This shows how little you actually understand about top tier AW.

It really doesn't matter what Tier you're in. There's a limit that Boosts can inflate the PI. Given the competitive nature of Top Tiers in general, we could assume that they will mostly be using Boosts. Which means it still boils down to the Rating of their Champs. If people start using Boosts across the board, it will not make a difference. Limited Boosts, limited PI increases. If it is allowed, and it adds to the metrics in a way that is not unfair, I see no problem with it. Anyone can use Boosts.

Qu1ckshoT32_Gaming

Every, single, discussion thread, in this forum, is about 1/3 to 1/4 one guy, and everyone else explaining to him why he is wrong. You can't escape him either, because you still get all the notifications for his posts even if you put him on your ignore list.

AW will forever be broken unless they add a metric that measures the success of your attack vs the attack of your opponent. Until then we are all wasting our time.

Making nodes harder and harder to prevent people from blowing through the map is only a fix for it being to easy, not a fix for it giving you only a few mathematical ways to win.

Congratulations MCOC, you win. I don't care anymore. A lot of people don't care anymore. This is the second thread where the same suggestions are being made. Instead of addressing any of our complaints you continue to say you're not done with AW. We clearly know you're not done with AW, because the scoring system is clearly broken.

Try addressing any of the concerns brought up.

MrMojo

Raganator wrote: »

teekq wrote: »

Then they shouldn’t call it war. If defender kill don’t count. They should call it alliance how much to win.

Or maybe just call it Roster Wars.

or just move it over to the "Bases"

Lurker

@WOK I fear that you're right. It seems we are unwilling to lose the scraps we get from AW even if it means we could get the fun/excitement of that part of the game back. Rewards are our addiction, not the game.

DNA3000

Qu1ckshoT32_Gaming wrote: »

AW will forever be broken unless they add a metric that measures the success of your attack vs the attack of your opponent. Until then we are all wasting our time.

I wouldn't say AW is broken, that would be a bit of an exaggeration.

Instead I would say that if we erase 15.0 and just compare 14.0 to 16.0, 16.0 takes the worst problems we used to have in 14.0 and makes them even worse. We put back the stupendous regeneration possible with 12.0. We removed thorns and slashed tires and added cornered and spite and my personal favorite arc overload. Mystic Dispersion defense is viable again, but Kabam went one better and added blockade options. And they reduced the number of linked nodes (I think: I personally never bothered to count) but rearranged them in a way that makes them rather more annoying.

They also removed defender kill points and added diversity points, but I'm not even sure that's the worst thing they've done when taken as a whole. It just seems very obviously worse than 14.0 in almost every conceivable way. There's nothing I would miss about 16.0 if they just reverted to 14.0, and I can't say that about most of the other large changes to the game. I can't even say that about diminishing returns.

None of these things is fatal on their own, and it isn't fatal taken collectively. It just makes it inescapable to not think about any other question than "why?" like watching someone trying to sort the grains of sand on a beach. By taste.

Lurker

DNA3000 wrote: »

like watching someone trying to sort the grains of sand on a beach. By taste.

How many units to see that. I would enjoy watching that immensely.

LegionDestroier

CAN SEE ALL THE OPPONENTS CHAMPS - NOT HIDDEN

DNA3000

LegionDestroier wrote: »

CAN SEE ALL THE OPPONENTS CHAMPS - NOT HIDDEN

This is a temporary measure by Kabam to address an exploit they are in the process of trying to resolve. See: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/31133/an-important-announcement-from-the-mcoc-team#latest

Donyb

I don’t know why they would have every champ visible if it was truly being exploited by a very small group i would of just kept it the same ....... having everything visible ruins the fun than they usually are .... which isn’t much

Anonymous

I have faith that kabam will eventually get war right again.
The Cleveland Browns will make a Super Bowl run this year.
Lonzo Ball will be MVP in the NBA.
Tupac is dropping a new album soon.
Tim Tebow is making an NFL comeback in week 10 to lead the Green Bay Packers to the NFC Championship game.

DNA3000

Donyb wrote: »

I don’t know why they would have every champ visible if it was truly being exploited by a very small group i would of just kept it the same ....... having everything visible ruins the fun than they usually are .... which isn’t much

If you truly would take no action when discovering an exploit in an MMO, my advice is don't consider a career in game development. We can argue all day about whether that's the best decision, but what is inarguable is your career will be unprofitably brief.

LeNoirFaineant

Anonymous wrote: »

I have faith that kabam will eventually get war right again.
The Cleveland Browns will make a Super Bowl run this year.
Lonzo Ball will be MVP in the NBA.
Tupac is dropping a new album soon.
Tim Tebow is making an NFL comeback in week 10 to lead the Green Bay Packers to the NFC Championship game.

The Knicks will end their 20 years of futility and be great again! Actually no, that's going way too far...

Abathuron

The War nodes are way too difficult now. I've been playing for a few months and I'm in an alliance of mostly kids. I don't care about being the best, just having fun. In a war now... Looks like we're going to win, but the A.I. is so difficult it wasn't fun at all. Gonna stick with Quests from now on, and skip the wars. If the game keeps getting harder, I'll most likely quit playing.

Vorvancos

Pracovat tak jako vy, už dávno mám výpověď. Pořád vám de jen o peníze ne o hru a hráče.

Vorvancos

To work as you do, I have a long time ago. You still have money only about the game and the player.

buggysitehaveaccont

5 boss nodes are still too pathetic...i would say there should not be time to solo boss even if he only had 1 help node...
maybe all 5 should add 5000% health which would prevent ppl from ignoring all 5 boss help nodes and it would benifit active teams

buggysitehaveaccont

also remove all potions and boosts in AW..what kinda "pvp" challenge is it to let the oliarchs win.
what other games that offer competition vs other players allow pay to win concept is concidered serious??
let potions be for AQ not AW
but i guess you want to buy a new Agera RS each week so i doubt it will change...greed is the strongest pull in the human race.

MEKA5

@Kabam Miike AW is boring and the higher alliance just wins...almost no need to fight today.

The solution is easy and everybody here's been suggesting it: reduce defenders rating points and
#bringbackdefenderskills !!!

unknown

This content has been removed.

Voluntaris

Incorporate points for attacker skill, this can be via Defender Kill Points or via Reduces Attacker Kill Points for each time an attacker dies against a Defender.

Without scoring for attacker skill, AW will continue to be flawed resulting in not fun/not strategic placement with lack of true competition.

Easiest fix .... #BringBackDefenderKillPoints