Alliance Wars Discussion 2.0

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  • gohard123gohard123 Posts: 697 ★★★
    gotta repost
  • AW Matchmaking Question (Forgive me if it has already been discussed - tried my best to read through 17 pages)

    Has there been a confirmed change to the matchmaking system? My alliance is a high prestige 12 million alliance (30 guys who just want to do 5x5) but we cant seem to get matchups against alliances rated equivalently. Most of our matchups are against 13-14mill alliances with war ratings ranging anywhere from 250-50 points higher then ours. I chalked off the first few as dumb luck but its now probably 10+ straight wars against massive alliances. Oh yea, best part: This is happening in tiers 4 - 7. Pre 15.0, this wouldnt have been that big of a deal but considering alliance wars are now roster wars, consistently getting matched against alliances 1-2 million higher then us is outrageous.
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,133 ★★★
    AW Matchmaking Question (Forgive me if it has already been discussed - tried my best to read through 17 pages)

    Has there been a confirmed change to the matchmaking system? My alliance is a high prestige 12 million alliance (30 guys who just want to do 5x5) but we cant seem to get matchups against alliances rated equivalently. Most of our matchups are against 13-14mill alliances with war ratings ranging anywhere from 250-50 points higher then ours. I chalked off the first few as dumb luck but its now probably 10+ straight wars against massive alliances. Oh yea, best part: This is happening in tiers 4 - 7. Pre 15.0, this wouldnt have been that big of a deal but considering alliance wars are now roster wars, consistently getting matched against alliances 1-2 million higher then us is outrageous.

    Kabam appears to have added either alliance PI or alliance prestige as a secondary AW matchmaking factor, after War Rating.

    They have not publicly announced this change, but it is extremely apparent.

    Too bad @ClintBeastwood can't read my informed response, as for reasons still unknown to me @Kabam Miike @Kabam Wolf @Ad0ra still have me 'shadow banned" (I can post but no one can see said posts), even though I did my time with the bars and the jail bars have been removed.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    edited November 2017
    There's nothing in the current scoring system that takes into account skill when deciding the winner. It's anti-competition and anti-human nature.

    99% of this game (AQ, arena, EQ, story mode) was indirect competition and they took the only thing that was slightly directly competitive (AW 14.0) and made it non-competitive.

    Nobody likes playing a contest where winners are predetermined and performance isn't the deciding factor.

    I don't know what Kabams intentions were, maybe this was a long term switcheroo project of theirs but despite what they've said about improving Alliance Wars, we've come out much worse than when we went in.

    14.0 was difficult and had some annoying nodes (Thorns, Starburst, Degen), but the path to victory was obvious: Improve your skills, die less, rank up the right defenders, and your chances of victory go up.

    With 16.0, nothing matters anymore except defender rating. Good skill means nothing and your best chance of winning means wasting valuable resources ranking up otherwise useless champions for the sake of PI. The nodes can also be so hard that that it makes progression almost impossible.

    They've made the nodes harder and harder each iteration and it's made it worse. Soon it's going to be so hard that Mystic wars will be back permanently and it'll cost much more than 14.0 ever was both in potions and in rank up material.

    Nice switcheroo Kabam. We fell for it hard.

    And for anyone asking for defender kills to be back, do you really want it back under these nodes?
  • CaramesCarames Posts: 264
    I agree almost completely with the above. We're having trouble keeping our alliance members even remotely interested in competing in wars because, if we're matched with a higher rated alliance, which we almost always are, that places defenders for diversity, we have 0 chance of winning the war as long as they complete the map. How does that make sense? We could load the map with the strongest defenders that we have, as long as they're willing to spend resources, they'll complete.

    I don't have a problem with the stronger nodes, per se, you want a challenge, but no one will bother to try to rise up to meet it if you can't pull out a victory.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    Aside from running a spreadsheet, winning is entirely out of your hands no matter how well you play.

    This is the very definition of anti-competition. It's anti-game.

    Are we playing a game here or learning Microsoft Excel?
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 508 ★★★
    Wolvie wrote: »
    Does this node look reasonably healthy to you Kabam?



    Exactly what kind of planning would we need here?

    3u8y946cjz4k.jpg



    You explicitly stated that you took out defender kill points because it discouraged players from attacking and instilled feelings of defeat.

    l171obh2wbxk.jpg



    What kind of feeling do you think 20k heals every 6 seconds gives to players other than contempt for having to spend units on a largely unbeatable node?

    f0360i17dsqs.jpg



    We lost war cause we gave up on this node. It "discouraged us from continuing our assault on the opposing alliance". What do you have to say about this?

    242d9oymwlww.jpg

    I agree with your post, but there is an easy answer to ultron on that node. Guilli would make it pretty easy.
  • Tasty_Yum_YumsTasty_Yum_Yums Posts: 393 ★★★
    edited November 2017
    @Kabam Miike it’s been over 3 weeks that ANYONE from kabam has responded to anyone in this forum. Ignoring the community does not make this issue go away.

    The community has dealt with the initial AW change, and the follow on modifications. Kabam kicks the can to “fix” something that wasn’t broken, and only needed to be updated (new map).

    What’s the plan for AW?
  • Mmx1991 wrote: »
    Aside from running a spreadsheet, winning is entirely out of your hands no matter how well you play.

    This is the very definition of anti-competition. It's anti-game.

    Are we playing a game here or learning Microsoft Excel?

    Well, they make the game in Excel, so there's a certain symmetry to the fact that we now have to play the game in Excel.
  • JuggerneyksJuggerneyks Posts: 274
    edited November 2017
    Anonymous wrote: »
    Wolvie wrote: »
    Does this node look reasonably healthy to you Kabam?



    Exactly what kind of planning would we need here?

    3u8y946cjz4k.jpg



    You explicitly stated that you took out defender kill points because it discouraged players from attacking and instilled feelings of defeat.

    l171obh2wbxk.jpg



    What kind of feeling do you think 20k heals every 6 seconds gives to players other than contempt for having to spend units on a largely unbeatable node?

    f0360i17dsqs.jpg



    We lost war cause we gave up on this node. It "discouraged us from continuing our assault on the opposing alliance". What do you have to say about this?

    242d9oymwlww.jpg

    I agree with your post, but there is an easy answer to ultron on that node. Guilli would make it pretty easy.

    actually she can be hit or miss on this node, sometimes its hard to line up her regen degen with the arc overload
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 508 ★★★
    Anonymous wrote: »
    Wolvie wrote: »
    Does this node look reasonably healthy to you Kabam?



    Exactly what kind of planning would we need here?

    3u8y946cjz4k.jpg



    You explicitly stated that you took out defender kill points because it discouraged players from attacking and instilled feelings of defeat.

    l171obh2wbxk.jpg



    What kind of feeling do you think 20k heals every 6 seconds gives to players other than contempt for having to spend units on a largely unbeatable node?

    f0360i17dsqs.jpg



    We lost war cause we gave up on this node. It "discouraged us from continuing our assault on the opposing alliance". What do you have to say about this?

    242d9oymwlww.jpg

    I agree with your post, but there is an easy answer to ultron on that node. Guilli would make it pretty easy.

    actually she can be hit or miss on this node, sometimes its hard to line up her regen degen with the arc overload

    It's not arc overload, it's masochism, which means every 7 seconds they remove your buff and regen. But I see your point. However, that seems to be the best counter outside of blade.
  • Anonymous wrote: »
    Wolvie wrote: »
    Does this node look reasonably healthy to you Kabam?



    Exactly what kind of planning would we need here?

    3u8y946cjz4k.jpg



    You explicitly stated that you took out defender kill points because it discouraged players from attacking and instilled feelings of defeat.

    l171obh2wbxk.jpg



    What kind of feeling do you think 20k heals every 6 seconds gives to players other than contempt for having to spend units on a largely unbeatable node?

    f0360i17dsqs.jpg



    We lost war cause we gave up on this node. It "discouraged us from continuing our assault on the opposing alliance". What do you have to say about this?

    242d9oymwlww.jpg

    I agree with your post, but there is an easy answer to ultron on that node. Guilli would make it pretty easy.

    actually she can be hit or miss on this node, sometimes its hard to line up her regen degen with the arc overload

    Arc Overload is on node 42. That node looks like node 24. Boosted regen and buffet, and to the best of my knowledge regen boost is boosting buffet on that node. That's where the non-stop healing comes from.
  • @Anonymous

    yea thats what i meant, couldn't remember what its called so i went with arc overload, it just seems silly to make this node, only a few champs can defeat it, sure you can organize and make sure someone with a proper champ takes that path but i thought the whole reason they removed defender kills and these slashed tires etcc. type nodes was to stop people from giving up.

    It seems like they have actually now made this problem worse then Aw 1.0 (which i never really saw a problem in the 1st place)

    i know the high tiers still 100% but i have been noticing in tiers 4-8 the node hardness is starting to make people give up before the bosses
  • CaramesCarames Posts: 264
    I don't think that that's a bad thing, though. Wars shouldn't be 100% completion from both sides every time. There should just be a better way of going about it. The whole thing needs a good rethinking, in my opinion
  • Moises_HMoises_H Posts: 72
    @Kabam Miike it’s been over 3 weeks that ANYONE from kabam has responded to anyone in this forum. Ignoring the community does not make this issue go away.

    The community has dealt with the initial AW change, and the follow on modifications. Kabam kicks the can to “fix” something that wasn’t broken, and only needed to be updated (new map).

    What’s the plan for AW?

    I believe the plan is just ignore this thread from now on.

    It’s the Kabam way “the 1st thread is making us look bad. We have no answers for them. Just open a new thread for them to complain and ignore it. We know from previous experience this already works.”

  • Carmel1Carmel1 Posts: 268
    AW Matchmaking Question (Forgive me if it has already been discussed - tried my best to read through 17 pages)

    Has there been a confirmed change to the matchmaking system? My alliance is a high prestige 12 million alliance (30 guys who just want to do 5x5) but we cant seem to get matchups against alliances rated equivalently. Most of our matchups are against 13-14mill alliances with war ratings ranging anywhere from 250-50 points higher then ours. I chalked off the first few as dumb luck but its now probably 10+ straight wars against massive alliances. Oh yea, best part: This is happening in tiers 4 - 7. Pre 15.0, this wouldnt have been that big of a deal but considering alliance wars are now roster wars, consistently getting matched against alliances 1-2 million higher then us is outrageous.

    i think it's because some strong alliances, that doesn't care about AQ anymore (don't need the t4c that expired in their inventory) are swapping every few weeks in order to keep a longer winning streak in war.
    the bad part is that there is nothing you can do, because you automatically lose to the "total rating" score and skill has no factor.
    we have the same problem, we are in losing streak that we never had before, when total rating is the tie breaker.
    we find in the bottom of tier2, some of the top alliance of the game. (i don't want to mentioned any names)
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,601 ★★★★
    Could have missed an announcement on changes to AW taking place this week.

    In the same tier 11 in previous War. Boss PI was only between 11-12k.

    Now the Boss tile is boosted by 5 other tiles. PI 60k + :o

    Where is the post stating the change?
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 5,135 ★★★★★
    @winterthur maybe I'm missing something but the boss has always been boosted by the mini bosses. That's why you have to take out the minis. My apologies if I misunderstood your post and am stating the obvious.
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,601 ★★★★
    @winterthur maybe I'm missing something but the boss has always been boosted by the mini bosses. That's why you have to take out the minis. My apologies if I misunderstood your post and am stating the obvious.

    In the previous week at Tier 11, and quite a few weeks, it was not boosted.
  • linuxlinux Posts: 262
    Carames wrote: »
    I don't think that that's a bad thing, though. Wars shouldn't be 100% completion from both sides every time. There should just be a better way of going about it. The whole thing needs a good rethinking, in my opinion

    With a different configuration (buffs like arc overload off required paths), I'd agree with this -- having optional paths which are hard but give alliances a chance to show how they can beat difficult content would provide some competition. The current map doesn't encourage treating paths as optional -- there are ways to do so, but you don't avoid all the overpowered nodes, and given how the links are set up using one of those approaches makes user error likely (clicking on the wrong side and dooming your BG or wasting one of your reserves).
  • linuxlinux Posts: 262
    @Anonymous

    yea thats what i meant, couldn't remember what its called so i went with arc overload, it just seems silly to make this node, only a few champs can defeat it, sure you can organize and make sure someone with a proper champ takes that path but i thought the whole reason they removed defender kills and these slashed tires etcc. type nodes was to stop people from giving up.

    It seems like they have actually now made this problem worse then Aw 1.0 (which i never really saw a problem in the 1st place)

    i know the high tiers still 100% but i have been noticing in tiers 4-8 the node hardness is starting to make people give up before the bosses

    This map is designed so that all-or-nothing is likely in levels where the minibosses buff the boss. If all the minibosses are cleared, the boss will die; if not, the boss won't. (I don't know if that's intentional design, but that's the result.)
  • winterthur wrote: »
    @winterthur maybe I'm missing something but the boss has always been boosted by the mini bosses. That's why you have to take out the minis. My apologies if I misunderstood your post and am stating the obvious.

    In the previous week at Tier 11, and quite a few weeks, it was not boosted.

    That's interesting. I was unaware that there were tiers in which the minibosses were not linked nodes.
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,601 ★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    That's interesting. I was unaware that there were tiers in which the minibosses were not linked nodes.

    :) I was having a fun time killing bosses 4/40 max but only around 11k thereabouts PI as the 5 miniboss did not boost the final boss (also took out one on 5/50). Today I saw the boss at plus 60k PI and thought what happened.

    Yes, at Tier 11 until the "change" this round.
  • CandJ8CandJ8 Posts: 1
    Wars are not even fun anymore without defender kills. Like many others have posted, every war is determined by defender rating or diversity, and not how well the teams did in the fights. How many champs our defenders kill is far more important in my opinion than how diverse the defenders were or even the defenders rating. If you can beat all defenders without losing any champs, you should never lose because the other team was more diverse! That’s a horrible structure for war winner decisions. It’s seriously not fun anymore because no matter how well you do you can lose because of some arbitrary measurement. Bring back defender kill points!!!
  • phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 1,756 ★★★
    Wolvie wrote: »
    Does this node look reasonably healthy to you Kabam?



    Exactly what kind of planning would we need here?

    3u8y946cjz4k.jpg



    You explicitly stated that you took out defender kill points because it discouraged players from attacking and instilled feelings of defeat.

    l171obh2wbxk.jpg



    What kind of feeling do you think 20k heals every 6 seconds gives to players other than contempt for having to spend units on a largely unbeatable node?

    f0360i17dsqs.jpg



    We lost war cause we gave up on this node. It "discouraged us from continuing our assault on the opposing alliance". What do you have to say about this?

    242d9oymwlww.jpg

    I feel like I haven't seen this enough times so I figured I'd repost it.

  • Do the nodes change for each War? We had 3 Wars recently. 1st had no boss linked nodes & less nodes overall. 2nd boss was linked to mini bosses & harder nodes. 3rd was back to the way 1st was set up. What's going in?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,529 ★★★★★
    Do the nodes change for each War? We had 3 Wars recently. 1st had no boss linked nodes & less nodes overall. 2nd boss was linked to mini bosses & harder nodes. 3rd was back to the way 1st was set up. What's going in?

    Sounds like you're going up or down in Tiers. There are different layouts for Nodes based on what Tier you're in.
This discussion has been closed.