Battlegrounds suggestion - Brackets

SuelGamesSuelGames Member Posts: 947 ★★★
edited July 2022 in Suggestions and Requests
So i ll give my personal take as Thronebreaker with 3m rating and almost 7 years in the game.

I suggest implementing brackets, to separate Paragons from Thronebreakers, from Cavs.. etc and of ajusting the rewards, lesser brackets, less rewards.

But why?
-> As you progress through the rankings, its simply impossible to compete with enourmously wide rosters of some players, some dont even play well but u timeout or die due to high number R3 and R4 annoying defenders and so dam frustrating! You can have flawless fights, and the other guys sucks but still wins. At the very least it would give us more fun, even with less rewards, the way it is its just not fair imo.

I believe these titles based on progression were created with this purpouse, to balance the game and separate the players based on their progress and their roster, and i believe this should be applied to Battlegrounds as well.

Will it fix uneven matches?
-> No, thats impossible to fix, but i believe it will improve a LOT the number of mismatches and focus more on the player skill if Paragons only fight Paragorns, TB only fight TB.. etc

My situation is: Ive got some R3s, no R4s and 90% of my R3s are undupped, i do have a stacked 5* R5 champs, but most of them are no match to kill some R3/R4 in 90 seconds, and once i got to 450 rating i was matched with some crazy rosters and dropped back to 350 without being able to surpass 400 again. I believe if i played against TBs only, i could do much better, and i dont mind taking less rewards for this, Paragons should earn more, like idk, for example:

Top 1000: 17,1k t6b and 13,5k t3a
Top 2500: 8550 t6b 6750 t3a

Have this /\ be for Paragon bracket only and make something like this for TB:

Top 1000: 8k t6b and 5k t3a
Top 2500: 4k t6b 2.5k t3a

Same logic applied to Cav and below.. thoughts?
Post edited by Kabam Valkyrie on

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • Tx_Quack_Attack6589Tx_Quack_Attack6589 Member Posts: 680 ★★★★
    So a paragon with simply 3 r4s is that much better then a thronebreaker with 2 r4s?
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    I've said this a couple times but this problem will actually go away over time. I'm an incredibly similar situation as you (2.9M TBHR, TB, 1 R4 Apoc, a usable BG Character but not the best). There will always be smaller accounts in the hands of better skilled players and larger accounts in the hands of people who just don't play at the same skill level.
    Given enough time, people will naturally fall into their correct ratings. The only thing that needs to happen is more and more matches have to played. We actually never got to the equilibrium during this Beta. I could tell because anytime I took half a day or a day off from Battlegrounds I would drop a few hundred places on the leaderboard. It unfortunately takes quite a long time for this to happen and if Kabam continues to reset the ratings every Beta, they reset all the progress that has been made toward this. I absolutely can relate to going up against Paragon players with 6 or 7 R4's and knowing that the odds are stacked against you. But I didn't lose every one of those matches and ultimately I believe I should have to go up against those people if they are having similar success as me regardless of the strength of their account or their progression in the game. We all need to remember that we are only expected to win 50% of our matches.
  • SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Member Posts: 5,182 ★★★★★
    Just asking and not defending anyone,
    Rank 2501 Paragon gets no rewards and 2500 TBs do.
  • tommiietommiie Member Posts: 20 ★
    I think that your idea is interesting. I think you just have to realize that this game is not split up by progression much anymore. Just look at high tier alliance war. There is no "Uncollected Master's brackets" or something like that. The people with the biggest and most skilled rosters, are typically at the top which in turn returns the best rewards. It doesn''t make any sense for a top 1000 skill level paragon player to feel like his/her's rank is being undermined by the "#1 rated Cavalier Bracket" player.
    SuelGames said:

    So i ll give my personal take as Thronebreaker with 3m rating and almost 7 years in the game.

    I suggest implementing brackets, to separate Paragons from Thronebreakers, from Cavs.. etc and of ajusting the rewards, lesser brackets, less rewards.

    But why?
    -> As you progress through the rankings, its simply impossible to compete with enourmously wide rosters of some players, some dont even play well but u timeout or die due to high number R3 and R4 annoying defenders and so dam frustrating! You can have flawless fights, and the other guys sucks but still wins. At the very least it would give us more fun, even with less rewards, the way it is its just not fair imo.

    I believe these titles based on progression were created with this purpouse, to balance the game and separate the players based on their progress and their roster, and i believe this should be applied to Battlegrounds as well.

    Will it fix uneven matches?
    -> No, thats impossible to fix, but i believe it will improve a LOT the number of mismatches and focus more on the player skill if Paragons only fight Paragorns, TB only fight TB.. etc

    My situation is: Ive got some R3s, no R4s and 90% of my R3s are undupped, i do have a stacked 5* R5 champs, but most of them are no match to kill some R3/R4 in 90 seconds, and once i got to 450 rating i was matched with some crazy rosters and dropped back to 350 without being able to surpass 400 again. I believe if i played against TBs only, i could do much better, and i dont mind taking less rewards for this, Paragons should earn more, like idk, for example:

    Top 1000: 17,1k t6b and 13,5k t3a
    Top 2500: 8550 t6b 6750 t3a

    Have this /\ be for Paragon bracket only and make something like this for TB:

    Top 1000: 8k t6b and 5k t3a
    Top 2500: 4k t6b 2.5k t3a

    Same logic applied to Cav and below.. thoughts?

    I think that your idea is interesting. I think you just have to realize that this game is not split up by progression much anymore. Just look at high tier alliance war. There is no "Uncollected Master's brackets" or something like that. The people with the biggest and most skilled rosters, are typically at the top which in turn returns the best rewards. It doesn''t make any sense for a top 1000 skill level paragon player to feel like his/her's rank is being undermined by the "#1 rated Cavalier Bracket" player.
  • AleorAleor Member Posts: 3,100 ★★★★★
    I have tb and yes, sometime I lose to dudes with big expensive roster, but pretty often you can win statically — ban right champs, pick right champs, lose first or second round to have advantage in second or third... Also r4s are scaling slower, I believe, so you usually want to ban r4 defenders over attackers. Button line is you can get better rewards without those brackets
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★
    I think we just haven’t had enough prolonged time with the BG rating system in order for it to truly balance out

    We’ve had 1 or 2 week betas for the most part, and as such we’ve basically gone through the balancing out stage for the majority of the entire mode so far.

    As soon as it starts balancing out, the beta ends and we reset a few months later.

    Let the mode go live, give it 3 weeks or a month and then see if you’re winning 50% of your matches.

    Although having said that, I have a feeling that even when people *are* winning 50% of their matches some will still feel the system is unfair, because of a couple things:

    - on average, people think they’re better than average. As an example, 65% of Americans said they’re more intelligent than the average. 93% of Americans said they’re better drivers than average. So I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most MCOC players think they should be better than their opponent.
    - negative experiences stick in your mind more than positive ones. So without specifically counting it, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone lost 10 times and won 10 times they would be more frustrated with the 10 losses that they’d feel the system was unfair.

    We had a funny moment on the forum when someone complained exactly about this. To paraphrase - “this system is so unfair, I only feel like I’m winning about half of my matches”.

    These match ups are based on a system that is the fairest of all, it gives you an estimated % chance of winning against your opponent. When your ratings are equal, it’s 50%. It’s not infallible, because some players might have just ranked someone up, or they might have started late and are moving their way up the ratings. So if you match them, they’re actually much better than their rating, so they have a better chance of winning.

    But the theory is, if you match someone and they have 10 more rank 3s than you, but the same rating as you, you should have a 50% chance of winning. There is a reason that they are at their rating. It may be that they don’t play very often and are way better than you, but that just means they will beat you and move on up. Maybe, they are at that rating because they have a great roster, but aren’t very skilled, or good at choosing their drafts.

    This system will all balance out, we just need to give it time.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • Kabam ValkyrieKabam Valkyrie Moderator Posts: 698
    Moving to the correct category :)
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,958 ★★★★★
    It should just be bracketed like AQ. Add a bunch more levels to the rewards so everyone has an incentive to push.
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    I think we just haven’t had enough prolonged time with the BG rating system in order for it to truly balance out

    We’ve had 1 or 2 week betas for the most part, and as such we’ve basically gone through the balancing out stage for the majority of the entire mode so far.

    As soon as it starts balancing out, the beta ends and we reset a few months later.

    Let the mode go live, give it 3 weeks or a month and then see if you’re winning 50% of your matches.

    Although having said that, I have a feeling that even when people *are* winning 50% of their matches some will still feel the system is unfair, because of a couple things:

    - on average, people think they’re better than average. As an example, 65% of Americans said they’re more intelligent than the average. 93% of Americans said they’re better drivers than average. So I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most MCOC players think they should be better than their opponent.
    - negative experiences stick in your mind more than positive ones. So without specifically counting it, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone lost 10 times and won 10 times they would be more frustrated with the 10 losses that they’d feel the system was unfair.

    We had a funny moment on the forum when someone complained exactly about this. To paraphrase - “this system is so unfair, I only feel like I’m winning about half of my matches”.

    These match ups are based on a system that is the fairest of all, it gives you an estimated % chance of winning against your opponent. When your ratings are equal, it’s 50%. It’s not infallible, because some players might have just ranked someone up, or they might have started late and are moving their way up the ratings. So if you match them, they’re actually much better than their rating, so they have a better chance of winning.

    But the theory is, if you match someone and they have 10 more rank 3s than you, but the same rating as you, you should have a 50% chance of winning. There is a reason that they are at their rating. It may be that they don’t play very often and are way better than you, but that just means they will beat you and move on up. Maybe, they are at that rating because they have a great roster, but aren’t very skilled, or good at choosing their drafts.

    This system will all balance out, we just need to give it time.

    The thing is too is that you can be well above average when it comes to skill/roster and you're expected win rate is still supposed to be 50%. That's the whole point of using rating to determine matchmaking. You get to realize your a top 10% player not by winning a greater percentage of matches but by being able to maintain the 50% (or slightly higher) win rate a higher rating.
  • SuelGamesSuelGames Member Posts: 947 ★★★
    edited July 2022
    ,
    FiiNCH said:

    What about those thronebreakers with super developed rosters? Why should they have to take lesser rewards?

    Cause they re not Paragon? If your roster is such developed, you should push to Paragorn title and rewards that come with it. But i get your point, its just my opinion, thx for the feedback
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,632 ★★★★★
    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,331 ★★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.

    It’s still a beta. Kabam will most likely introduce a proper reward structure, similar to AW, for the mode that it gives out some rewards to those rank below 2.5k.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,632 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Searmenis said:

    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.

    It’s still a beta. Kabam will most likely introduce a proper reward structure, similar to AW, for the mode that it gives out some rewards to those rank below 2.5k.
    Fingers crossing. We ll see in a couple of months probably...
  • IvarTheBonelessIvarTheBoneless Member Posts: 1,276 ★★★★
    Searmenis said:

    xNig said:

    Searmenis said:

    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.

    It’s still a beta. Kabam will most likely introduce a proper reward structure, similar to AW, for the mode that it gives out some rewards to those rank below 2.5k.
    Fingers crossing. We ll see in a couple of months probably...
    I don't think there's a reason to worry. Every pvp gamemode has had reward brackets for the entire playerbase.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,632 ★★★★★
    IvarTheBoneless said:

    Searmenis said:

    xNig said:

    Searmenis said:

    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.

    It’s still a beta. Kabam will most likely introduce a proper reward structure, similar to AW, for the mode that it gives out some rewards to those rank below 2.5k.
    Fingers crossing. We ll see in a couple of months probably...
    I don't think there's a reason to worry. Every pvp gamemode has had reward brackets for the entire playerbase.
    I never played a beta before, so I don't really know, knew, how this works when it gets to the official thing.
  • SuelGamesSuelGames Member Posts: 947 ★★★
    xNig said:

    Searmenis said:

    Brackets or not (not a bad idea in general though), we need more rank rewards categories. Even something small for top 5k, 7.5k, 10k etc, so the players won't get discouraged. Most of us know that we don't have any chance being part of the 2.5 or 1k, so after a while we ll stop playing the mode and wasting all this energy. There s the store, ok, but since there is ranked rewards, it should be made just like other modes in the game. Not just two unattainable categories.

    It’s still a beta. Kabam will most likely introduce a proper reward structure, similar to AW, for the mode that it gives out some rewards to those rank below 2.5k.
    i hope u re right m8.

    im glad they got rid of refresh timers on champs, that 15 energy cost still gotta go man, make it a separate energy bar like for AQ and AW or at least reduce it to 10. I wasted a lot of precious EQ energy trying to get all win milestones, since after u get to a higher rating, u tend to lose a lot and its just a waste of energy after u complete all playable milestones
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