Every champ that needs 200 sigs
Bhai
Member Posts: 68 ★
Hey peeps…my knowledge with champions needing 200 sigs is limited…which are the champions that require 200 sigs?
Post edited by Kabam Habanero on
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They can all be played at sig zero
Obviously every champ can be played at sig 0, but you try taking Cap IW with a skill on the team against biohazard at sig 0 and let me know how it goes. Or Thing sig 0 against strike counter fury. Or Aegon sig 0 in Abyss.
There are champions who get plenty of benefit at low sig like Hyperion. And there are those that you really want at higher sig like Cap IW. Hyperion’s sig scales very slowly after a dupe or 2, and it also only provides extra duration. Not necessary to take fights. Whereas Cap IW’s sig scales up to 100%, not just extra duration on something. And that makes a difference. If you take Cap with an 80% chance to shrug off, 1/5 debuffs are gonna stick, and that can KO you.
So in that situation, Cap needs sig 200. There is no situation that Hyperion needs sig 200.
Ægon
Stryfe (maybe?)
Scarlet Witch (Classic)
Sentry? (if ever you wanted to use Sentry)
Sig to get the best out of him?
To me there’s two levels, one where a champion won’t be able to do something unless they’re sig 200, and one level where you *can* use them lower sig, but you really wanna push them up to higher sig.
The first level champs (the ones that need sit 200 to do something extra) are (in my view):
Thing - you can only get to 100% damage reduction at sig 200. Since it’s 80% from sig plus 20 from rock stacks. Lower means damage trickles through, and that can add up when you’re taking him against big numbers.
Cap IW - low sig is a 40% chance, 200 is a 100% chance. When you’re talking about stacking petrifies and shrugging debuffs. A lot of the time you want a 100% chance for reliability. He can be useful at lower sig, but you want 200 really.
Red Guardian - you want a 0% chance to lose durability charges on well timed blocks otherwise you lose a lot of spice.
Yellowjacket - after using sp3, at sig 200 you get a permanent power sting, meaning any time the opponent uses a special you take them down. At anything less than 200, there’s a chance for it to be consumed.
Black Panther OG - at sig 200 you can reduce defensive ability accuracy to 0% with 5 bleeds and Panther’s might.
Namor - any less than 100% isn’t great for damage reduction so you want 200 here
Guardian - while you don’t strictly need 200 for him to be good, so much of the energy resistance from sig is in the last bit of his sig level that you just want him sig 200. His energy resist goes to 8791 at sig 200. At sig 150, you have 4830, which means at sig 150 you only have half of the benefit of the sig, leaving 50% of the benefit of the sig in those last 50 sigs.
Ultron - at sig 200 you have an 80% reduction on shock and incinerate, and for DoT you want as little as possible. Sig 200 almost makes Ultron a 4 way immunity champ
Angela - at sig 200 you get -35% reduced DOT debuff duration. Meaning you can have 0% duration from only 3 buffs. Big deal
Doom - not a vital addition to the list here, but if he’s sig 200 you can doom cheese occasional buff-on-hit nodes like resistor, or the one where they get cruelty from being knocked down. Not possible unless he’s sig 200, but not necessary in general.
In my opinion those are the only champs that gain something new they can’t do from being y’know, sig 150 instead. Those are the only ones that are going to be stopped from doing fights because they’re not sig 200.
There are however, a ton of champs who really benefit from being higher sig, they don’t *need* 200, but either benefit loads from being higher sig (150+), or 200 itself. I’m not gonna include every champ here, as someone like for example Ibom is great with more acid burn/petrify/poison duration and is obviously better, but this is for champs that may make or break you ranking them unless they’re higher sig, or if they have a huge benefit:
Void - His damage is lacking in general, but higher sig really gives him a boost to that and keeps him up with the higher meta champs. Also, inflicting debuffs faster while FoTV is active is really nice too. You might not want to rank a sig 20, but a sig 150 is a different story.
Miles - similar to Void, extra damage is just really nice here. Could be the difference between ranking him
Spidey 2099 - extra ruptures surviving the burst means a lot more damage.
Mr Fantastic - the extra combat power rate can make it really nice to cycle sp2s and get your utility up quicker.
Valkyrie - she ignores stun and unstoppable with her sig. and the way it works is based on the number of bulwark and pierce effects respectively. Higher sig means less buffs needed. At 126, you only need 2, at 200 you only need one. She doesn’t *need* 200, but you’re probably gonna want to push to at least 126. 1 buff needed is amazing at 200, 126 is great for 2, but 3 starts to get tricky to get quickly in a fight
Aegon - the more combo you bank the better. You want him high sig really
Crossbones - better chance to shrug, better usability in fights that you need to shrug
Falcon - his damage is lacking a little anyway, so getting a better crit rate is really useful for your war fights and BG fights.
Killmonger - at higher sig he’s clearly a much better defender, but that sig is awesome for attack as well. It more than doubles your attack at sig 200.
Kingpin - kinda on this list only to mention that he has a great sweet spot at 65, benefits from higher, but 65 is a great start.
Thor Rags - extra attack from extra sigs, makes him really benefit. Plus a great prestige option
Archangel - nice sweet spot at 112 meaning only 3 neuro’s needed for 100% reduction.
Omega red - you might not want to rank him at 20, but at 200 the spore damage is much better. The higher the sig, the more usable he is.
Stryfe - quicker ramp up in terms of more charges and how many you convert at the end of the fight.
Ghost - more power means an easier cycle of keeping up cruelties active, as well as more sp2s to throw
Vision AoU - not as high a sig needed as others, but at sig 60 ish or more you start to comfortably steal enough power to lock fights down. He’s workable at lower sig for sure, just gets easier with some investment.
Hercules - you want as much duration on immortality as possible here, a split second can make the difference between a few combos and an sp2 to finish out the fight
Knull - speeds up your ramp up dramatically for short fights by applying living abyss at the start of the fight. Can double the armour breaks you typically get if you’re going for sp1 to kick off corruption.
King Groot - more sigs, more health recovered. Great champ to pump sigs into.
Red Goblin - not strictly necessary, but higher sig means less of a potency reduction for your extra buffs from the sig.
Diablo - only if you’re running suicides really, the more damage you reduce from recoil the better here.
Mojo - big attack boost from more sigs
Tigra - longer senses means you can take some fights that tigra shouldn’t be able to take, like hazard shift minis in AW. A few heavies then sp2 can take down R3/4 champions if you’re boosted. The sig gives you a quick start into fights that you want to get in and out of quickly. She’s great at high sig.
I’ll probably have missed a few, but these are the champs that either need sig 200, or benefit greatly from higher sig that I saw.
Also, this is just a rough guide from my point of view, I may overrate a few of the champs sigs here, or underrate others and not include them. This isn’t a definitive you should sig up X, Y and Z. Just my opinion. It’s also not a “these champions are all amazing sig and rank them!” I dislike Red guardian myself, but he gets a huge benefit at sig 200 since he no longer loses charges so I thought I’d include him.
I sigged up negative myself, who doesn’t benefit as much after sig 40-50, but I love him so I did. At the end of the day, sig who you enjoy and who gets a benefit out of it.
Champs who greatly benefit from being sig 200: Thing, Miles, OG BP, Hawkeye, Killmonger, Korg, Thor Ragnarok, Squirrel Girl, Bishop, Colossus, Ghost, Doctor Octopus, King Groot, Proxima, Red Goblin, Dr Voodoo, Mojo and Tigra
Let me know if I have missed anyone
I also believe, but don’t hesitate to correct if I’m wrong, that this potency and duration will apply to the sp3 self repair and energy burst as well.
These extra potencies and duration really add up to give Nimrod more damage and a bit of extra utility. He’s well worth investing sigs in.
AA is great at sig 1, you only need 4 neuro’s to shut down the opponent.
Sig 112 does make a sizeable impact, and takes it to 3 neuros to shut down.
That’s amazing, and I’m not saying don’t invest. But when you’re choosing who to invest in, there’s a lot of champs that *need* higher sig.
I’d say AA is most definitely worth mutant sigs, unless you love Omega or Namor for example. But generics are a little harder to invest. I’d recommend looking at other champs you might want to use generics on in the future.
AA is great at 1, it’s not necessary to sig him up. But it is very helpful, and if you want to, then go for it!
So, 4 Neuros takes you to 100% AAR.
At 112, it's 33.4%
So, you now only need 3.
At sig 200, it's 40%.
So, you still need 3 Neuros.
...can the total AAR from this sig actually exceed 100%? I don’t know how many situations this could occur in
No, he has a sweet spot in the 60s where he gets a lot of the benefit without all of the investment.
For me, that’s a really informative video but I feel it goes a little far to say the maths says you shouldn’t invest any sigs at all. I think it would be more accurate to say that for most people it’s not necessary to do so. But to be safe, and if you don’t have better champs to use the sigs on then it’s still worth it.
I completely agree with the maths and some of the conclusions drawn. It’s not necessary to be that sig to play him.
My feeling is that this video relies pretty heavily on best case scenario, or that ‘most of the time, you’re going to have 4+ so its fine’. The way I see it, I know that I’m going to have 4+ most of the time. But I took my Archangel to sig 100 (so far) because of the times when I don’t have 4 or when my RNG goes bad.
When RNG goes badly, it can go really bad. That’s when you want the extra safety net of extra chances to shut down the opponent. Especially since I use AA mostly in War and BGs, where a single death or mistake can be huge.
Sometimes you find you get 0 or 1 bleeds. The video actually goes out of its way to highlight this as a likely possibility. Yes, the odds are that most of the time you will have a short break between 3 and 4 neuros. But what about the times when you don’t? What if you have 3 or 4 heavies without getting the neuro? That’s a lot of potential damage from an electro, or shrug offs from a Kingpin. Possibly losing you health, attack bonuses and Bg rounds.
My point of view is that if I’m relying on an RNG champ, I want to tip the scales in my favour as much as I can. I’m fine with playing Killmonger at a lower sig, it’s just less damage. But if I’m using Archangel? I’d prefer his neuro’s to give me the best chance of winning as possible.
I’ll caveat this with a couple of things. Firstly, I have a rank 4 archangel, so that’s something else that makes me want to push him to his limits. Personally, I’m going to be taking him to sig 200 with mutant stones I get over time. I don’t see any other mutant champs I want to invest in now or in the future.
Secondly, I did have about 100 mutant stones when I pulled AA and awakened him. If I only had generics I probably wouldn’t have done it. Archangel is good enough at sig 1, I’d never pretend otherwise. For me, higher sig is what I’d personally want to play with to be safe. There aren’t many champ’s sigs that get safer with higher sig, and AA is the only mutant I wanted to invest in.
My personal opinion here is that yeah, AA is gonna be fine most of the time at sig 1, but if it’s occasionally gonna kill me or lose me a BG match, I want to invest to stop that being a possibility. Especially if it’s a rank 4 of mine, and since I had mutant stones going spare.
I’ve had war fights like EMP Mod, aspect of evo, bubble shield where I got 3 neuro’s on in the first 2 heavies, and I didn’t get my 4th neuro until my 5th heavy. That was 6 extra parries (as it was a Havok) where I would have had 75% AAR instead of 100 depending on sig 1 vs 112. If he’d have thrown a special then I could have been shocked down, those blocks could have led to dealing with an unblockable attack.
Like I said, it won’t save me a death every time, but it’s about putting the odds in my favour.
As a video example of what I’m talking about, this is why I want to push AA to sig 200. I want to squeeze out all the AAR I can, to put myself in the best position if this sort of things happens
Just watch the first fight here against doom. This is some bad AA RNG. The first time in the video where I get 4 neuro’s is 13 heavies, an sp1 and an sp2, about 1:20 mins into the fight. And after that, you slip back below 4 in and out. The vast majority of the fight Doom is under 4 neuro’s.
That’s not indicative of many fights, but it happens and in those situations I’d rather have 2 neuro’s for 80% reduction rather than 2 for 50% reduction.
A couple other fights I’m happy to have higher sig is Killmonger, BPCW and Nick where I sometimes have less than 4 neuro’s, and any extra AAR is really nice to have.
TL:DR In theory, the numbers say you won’t need the extra AAR most of the time. In reality, if you use AA in high risk scenarios often, that “most of the time” can actually leave quite a few fringe cases where you want extra AAR. So to me, more sigs is worth it.