Relic node that punishes the player?

GroundedWisdom · April 2023

Stature said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Stature said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fireatwill said:

Demonzfyre said:
https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.
The point is not about the -90% power gain but a node designed specifically to take away some qualities and then give them back only if a relic is used. That is not how relics are supposed to be used as per the statements by the designers of the game. Relics are supposed to provide a benefit, not hold to ransom what is already available. Once a node is designed to punish the absence of a relic, there is only one direction new content design is going to take.
That's what they provide, a benefit. They tied that benefit into a Node that was part of the challenge factor, and the point that it's doable without them isn't a moot one.
People don't HAVE to use them. If they choose not to, they're punishing themselves when something comes along that adds a benefit to doing so.
The challenge factor is only relevant if you don't use relics. That's pretty much how penalties work. The fight is designed to be more difficult (doable or not) if you don't use relics rather than designed to be easier if you use relics. It's the same difference as nodes which reduce attack by 50% if you don't use specific classes (like in 5.3) vs. nodes which boost attack (like in AQ). One is a penalty other is a benefit - relic were supposed to be beneficial and not counters to "challenge factors"

Penalties work through Nodes regardless. Had they left the Node without the Relic Node, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's additive, not punitive.

Stature · April 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Stature said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Stature said:

Demonzfyre said:

Fireatwill said:

Demonzfyre said:
https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
How convenient that you failed to read the -90% power gain, and then post irrelevant propaganda videos.
The whole point of both videos is to show that the -90% power gain is meaningless. I am very aware of what the node says my guy. You don't need to throw specials on that path. It truly makes no difference because your DOT effects are doing to do more damage than most specials will. Now, go play and let the adults talk.
The point is not about the -90% power gain but a node designed specifically to take away some qualities and then give them back only if a relic is used. That is not how relics are supposed to be used as per the statements by the designers of the game. Relics are supposed to provide a benefit, not hold to ransom what is already available. Once a node is designed to punish the absence of a relic, there is only one direction new content design is going to take.
That's what they provide, a benefit. They tied that benefit into a Node that was part of the challenge factor, and the point that it's doable without them isn't a moot one.
People don't HAVE to use them. If they choose not to, they're punishing themselves when something comes along that adds a benefit to doing so.
The challenge factor is only relevant if you don't use relics. That's pretty much how penalties work. The fight is designed to be more difficult (doable or not) if you don't use relics rather than designed to be easier if you use relics. It's the same difference as nodes which reduce attack by 50% if you don't use specific classes (like in 5.3) vs. nodes which boost attack (like in AQ). One is a penalty other is a benefit - relic were supposed to be beneficial and not counters to "challenge factors"
Penalties work through Nodes regardless. Had they left the Node without the Relic Node, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's additive, not punitive.

It is most definitely punitive. This isn't a penalty on it's own, it's a penalty only if you chose to not use relics. Context matters. You can stick your head in the sand but this a clear breach of stated intent of relics.

Dramione · April 2023

I totally agree with the OP. I don't use relics, and I've found this node to be very annoying.

Karuseus · April 2023

When would people who say ‘you can ignore the node’ realize that difficulty of the node is not the problem?

The fact that you gain -90% power is a disadvantage compared to no node, where your power gain rate is not altered.
It’s contradicting to what kabam has claimed.

Will you start complaining if they implement a node where your damage done to the opponent is reduced by 90% unless you use your striker and negate it for 15 sec or something like that?

OP stated he went through the path regardless or relics. He is not posting this because he couldn’t get through and want to whine about it.

VestasCure · April 2023

GluteusMaximus said:

DarkestDestroyer said:
I’m just doing 2.2, and I was wondering why I went through the fight and couldn’t gain power.

I thought i saw that relics were not going to be used in a way to disadvantage the player for not having one active?

Whilst I still won the fight, I’m not saying it’s a huge issue, but this is a sign that maybe going forwards, not having a relic can be punishable, or in other words put you at a bit disadvantage

Thoughts?

Thoughts:

1) "disadvantage" is a slippery slope in the context of this game. If the wording of the node were dependent on a specific hashtag (say, #heros gain no power, for example), is it a disadvantage for those without decent ranked-up heroes? Also, if the node were just straight up with no mention of relics, I'd imagine folks would just run through it like other content. This just feels like someone telling me to wear a tie along with the sport coat if i want a promotion. I ain't wearing no stinking tie, buddy, and don't tell me about your stinking relics neither.

2) i love how some folks hijack well- meaning threads like this with off-topic nonsense. Here's mine: if they called them relliK I'd be all in on them, since relliK is Killer backwards. Yeah! Killer! Rellik! Madam im adam! Too much fun.

Your first point means absolutely nothing in the context of this relic discussion. Yes, that would be a disadvantage to people without ranked up #heroes. The difference is that Kabam has verabatim said that relics are meant to be optional content for people. Champions, and by extension #hero champions, are not optional to play this game. So your analogy here does not apply.

Lpoo · April 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Fireatwill said:

Demonzfyre said:
https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
Now, go play and let the adults talk.
Sounds like a trolling comment, can we get this deleted mods?

Greekhit · April 2023

Things are more simple

Demonzfyre said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Demonzfyre said:
https://youtu.be/st1uhsvM9tc
https://youtu.be/cklRdG8Fvo4
Where are you being punished at?
For not having a relic on the champs….that’s my point
The 2 videos show that the node doesn't matter. I was able to do both fights without ever needing the relics. You aren't being punished. Especially in the Skill chapter.

Things are very simple and there isn't so much room for arguing:
Do the fights are doable without relics? Yes
Are you getting a penalty for not using relics? Yes
I personally used AA and NF (no relics) and nuked the path, but i can see where people are coming from and their concerns.
I'd like relics giving a small advantage for using them, not a big disadvantage for not using them 🙂

AMS94 · April 2023

Today it's 90% reduced combat power rate
Tomorrow it can be 90% reduced damage

And those who pushed for Zone 25 last month know that having relics was kind of a requirement there as well.....it wasn't mandatory but the fights were a lot more difficult without it
Even CCP members were saying not to go for Zone 25 push without relics

Battleground nodes from next season will also interact with relics, giving an advantage to those who have invested heavily in it
And BGs being the most competitive mode, this will be a huge disadvantage to those who don't use / don't want to use relics

Buttehrs · April 2023

To those of you who are saying they hate relics etc, all you have to do is one simple duel this week and you get a 4* relic. Almost for free! And it's free to bind and unbind now after the update. The only part that would suck is rng and getting a class you don't need. There's really no reason to complain anymore.

Relic node that punishes the player?

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