1) “oh 7* have more health, so its not fair” My Guy, its ur strategy to invest in a 7* Sasquatch over many 6*.. u work hard for all the 7* shards and rank up items. So OFCOURSE ur 7* SHOULD be stronger than 6*.. why would i invest in 7* if they are going to be treated as 6* anyways ?
2)Playing Much Better ? Thats a R5 Domino vs R4 Arch Angel (FULL AND FULL RNG fiesta) first 4 bleeds were purified.. dnt bring that argument of “Playing better” in an RNG filled fight.. (i am master top5 ally player and Celestial 6 every GC season) i am not saying that to show off. But ur argument of PLAYING BETTER is insensitive. I am not here coz of my one death. This is for the game.. u can clearly see from the pic that i won.
With that theory, if an alliance uses less pots or boosts in war should win?
What do u mean dude ? If alliance uses more boosts and pots (investment , and in this example u invest more on 7*) and IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL, Yes U SHOULD WIN.
Say for example. 2 ppl with same skill level, one uses Boosts (7*) and another doesnt use boost (example 6*) The dude who boosts should win
Well the dude with more health against a 7* won that round, glad we could clear this up.
Legend, clearly u dnt knw how Higher tier war works. Remaining Defenders > Attack Bonus > Time (for break tie)
Using the same logic.. Remaining defenders carry 3 times more value than a solo..
Check mate
Who told you the same logic of war applies to BG
Who said it shouldnt ? And there is no harm in asking for it to be the case.
Kabam said so.
No 2 game modes have the same sort of criteria.
Quests you can use how many ever revives and potions and die as much as you want and everyone gets the same rewards.
AQ has a limit on how many items you can use and no of fights and prestige will dictate what rewards you get.
AW makes you lose rewards everytime you die.
In arena what matters is most fights done.
BG is meant to be a PvP with a different sort of winning where health lost, defender health left and fight time all factor into scoring
DNA An informative post, and seems not only well thought out, but also very much intended to be helpful. I'd like to move away from the 'pay the nuke' vibe though, and would be very much interested in your opinion focused more on this individual case, and how it highlights one particular aspect of the scoring system that could be tweaked to address a minor flaw in the scoring system.
For perspective, I'm an every season GC player from the start of bgs, we've seen it all haven't we.....sandbagging, never did it, pausing, never did it, farming for points, never do it, season after season of changes, 1-1 token ratios, 2-1 token ratios, added tiers, seeding, armour meta, nuke metas......change after change, and I'm always in the GC in the first week, maybe within the first 10 days if I happened to have been particularly busy. I try to come here to find positive conversations about how to keep tweaking the mode.....unfortunately I gave up long ago, because threads are just about match making, with each change bringing a different group or level of player to now be upset with, and the threads spiral in negative war zones, where you can literally open a thread, read the OP, and before you get past the third reply, you know it's time to get out of there. Anybody can check my chat history right? So all can see I don't comment on all those bgs posts, nor am I one here complaining about any single change.....I don't like a lot, I even hate a lot, but I just crack on and hope for better changes in the future. All I've ever know from this mode, is I face monsters from my very first match of the season, all the way through to my last match of the season, I get the fun of the odd match against the Lags, karate Mike, Vega, Dab wests, and people like that......even had the fun of going down 2-0 to bitter steal in the VT this season. Anyway, I digress, just wanted to point out that when it comes to match making, all I know is facing monsters, so find it hard to read through countless threads about it, with each side at war with each other, in a hope I'll find some positive steps, and maybe a bit of unity, happening.
So, back to this thread Yes, what you've said in your post is true, but there's always room for improvement......so allow me to indulge this if you will )
Kingpin is my favourite champ, has been since his buff......while everyone was running around talking about the moleman and Falcon buff, I was running around telling everyone to rank up their kingpins, as I went destroying act 7 with him, my first r4, my first r5, and I'll accend him.......so safe to say I know kingpin. I'm also the happy owner of an r2 Sassy.....so I'm very aware of his capabilities on defense.
In this individual case.......if that Sassy was r2, kingpin was going to struggle, so if there was a KO bonus, from the start, they aren't going to be rewarded for just going in with a safe tanky champ. In this individual case, he gets rewarded for putting down a champ that does damage to you, but his opponent doesn't get rewarded for putting down a champ that is hard to enough damage to in order to drop them.......so his trap was allowed to work, while the OP's trap wasn't. We all play under the same rule set, so the rules are the rules......but which rules do we want........a rule set that encourages a strategy that encourages dynamic play, and where as many people's trap as possible work, or one where you can hope to dance around and hope your opponents have a worse time?
So, I've used the leave Nick on 1% in his first life and dance around for the win as one example, but in regards to this individual fight......as I said, I know kingpin. I'm guessing that was a r1 Sassy, and if that's the case, to drop that fight, you have to fight Sassy through his wrath phases.......if you just try and wait them out, you won't get the fight down..........which looks like that's what this person may have done.......so we all want the person that just did 5 hit combos with a tanky champ that heals, then waited out the only dynamic part of the fight that requires skill to keep doing damage through rewarded for a win? That Sassy is nowhere near down....so it's not like it's close......so to those saying "high health shows control in a fight.....", sure to a certain extent, by and large, or whatever other catchphrase one wants to use. But the simple fact is, if that person was in control of the fight, they probably would have dropped Sassy, and if that person knew from the start that he can't just stall the fight out because the KO bonus could cost him, then maybe he would have had to try somebody else, and risk damage to get the fight down.......and the system then rewarding both direct damage champ traps, and big healthpool champ traps.
So no, in no way am I saying pay the nuke........but a KO bonus instantly address a small, but grey area. There will always be a coin toss moment when it comes to scoring right? Always a point like this OP's match, where the point system overlaps......so when we weigh up all the factors, some I've tried to highlight here, would we not rather that the coin toss deciding factor when to the person that got through their opponents trap and actually got the fight down. 500 points, 1000 points.......I don't know the balance........but doesn't it feel right......does it not feel like it would allow a broader amount of traps to work, encourage dynamic play a bit more.......as well as matching what many of our brains already feel, and love about our little escape from reality......that this is a fight, and a fight to the end.......to quote the immortal comment......"Finsh him!!' lol. And also encourages another great famous vibe........this is fight club, and in fight club......you MUST fight!! )
I also don't like the "time", the correct option would be a knockout...if there is a knockout on both sides, with equal remaining health, consider the fight a draw...
So no, in no way am I saying pay the nuke........but a KO bonus instantly address a small, but grey area.
There literally is a KO bonus though. In the OP they got 3196 as a KO bonus, while their opponent got 0 because they didn't finish the fight. That's more than triple the 500/1000 points you proposed, but the opponent's fight was so much cleaner that they won anyway
I believe it was modified from original scoring with the introduction of 7* and their huge health pools.
I don't believe that happened at literally the same time, and to the extent that it happened around the same time I believe this is purely coincidental. The change was not made to anticipate future health pools, it was made because the devs wanted to reduce the importance of time remaining relative to attacker health remaining to incentivize more precise play and slightly deemphasize burst damage scoring. I'm pretty sure they mentioned this when the change in scoring was made.
You are correct. The scoring change was made at the end of June, a few months following the availability of 7*.
DNA An informative post, and seems not only well thought out, but also very much intended to be helpful. I'd like to move away from the 'pay the nuke' vibe though, and would be very much interested in your opinion focused more on this individual case, and how it highlights one particular aspect of the scoring system that could be tweaked to address a minor flaw in the scoring system.
For perspective, I'm an every season GC player from the start of bgs, we've seen it all haven't we.....sandbagging, never did it, pausing, never did it, farming for points, never do it, season after season of changes, 1-1 token ratios, 2-1 token ratios, added tiers, seeding, armour meta, nuke metas......change after change, and I'm always in the GC in the first week, maybe within the first 10 days if I happened to have been particularly busy. I try to come here to find positive conversations about how to keep tweaking the mode.....unfortunately I gave up long ago, because threads are just about match making, with each change bringing a different group or level of player to now be upset with, and the threads spiral in negative war zones, where you can literally open a thread, read the OP, and before you get past the third reply, you know it's time to get out of there. Anybody can check my chat history right? So all can see I don't comment on all those bgs posts, nor am I one here complaining about any single change.....I don't like a lot, I even hate a lot, but I just crack on and hope for better changes in the future. All I've ever know from this mode, is I face monsters from my very first match of the season, all the way through to my last match of the season, I get the fun of the odd match against the Lags, karate Mike, Vega, Dab wests, and people like that......even had the fun of going down 2-0 to bitter steal in the VT this season. Anyway, I digress, just wanted to point out that when it comes to match making, all I know is facing monsters, so find it hard to read through countless threads about it, with each side at war with each other, in a hope I'll find some positive steps, and maybe a bit of unity, happening.
So, back to this thread Yes, what you've said in your post is true, but there's always room for improvement......so allow me to indulge this if you will )
Kingpin is my favourite champ, has been since his buff......while everyone was running around talking about the moleman and Falcon buff, I was running around telling everyone to rank up their kingpins, as I went destroying act 7 with him, my first r4, my first r5, and I'll accend him.......so safe to say I know kingpin. I'm also the happy owner of an r2 Sassy.....so I'm very aware of his capabilities on defense.
In this individual case.......if that Sassy was r2, kingpin was going to struggle, so if there was a KO bonus, from the start, they aren't going to be rewarded for just going in with a safe tanky champ. In this individual case, he gets rewarded for putting down a champ that does damage to you, but his opponent doesn't get rewarded for putting down a champ that is hard to enough damage to in order to drop them.......so his trap was allowed to work, while the OP's trap wasn't. We all play under the same rule set, so the rules are the rules......but which rules do we want........a rule set that encourages a strategy that encourages dynamic play, and where as many people's trap as possible work, or one where you can hope to dance around and hope your opponents have a worse time?
So, I've used the leave Nick on 1% in his first life and dance around for the win as one example, but in regards to this individual fight......as I said, I know kingpin. I'm guessing that was a r1 Sassy, and if that's the case, to drop that fight, you have to fight Sassy through his wrath phases.......if you just try and wait them out, you won't get the fight down..........which looks like that's what this person may have done.......so we all want the person that just did 5 hit combos with a tanky champ that heals, then waited out the only dynamic part of the fight that requires skill to keep doing damage through rewarded for a win? That Sassy is nowhere near down....so it's not like it's close......so to those saying "high health shows control in a fight.....", sure to a certain extent, by and large, or whatever other catchphrase one wants to use. But the simple fact is, if that person was in control of the fight, they probably would have dropped Sassy, and if that person knew from the start that he can't just stall the fight out because the KO bonus could cost him, then maybe he would have had to try somebody else, and risk damage to get the fight down.......and the system then rewarding both direct damage champ traps, and big healthpool champ traps.
So no, in no way am I saying pay the nuke........but a KO bonus instantly address a small, but grey area. There will always be a coin toss moment when it comes to scoring right? Always a point like this OP's match, where the point system overlaps......so when we weigh up all the factors, some I've tried to highlight here, would we not rather that the coin toss deciding factor when to the person that got through their opponents trap and actually got the fight down. 500 points, 1000 points.......I don't know the balance........but doesn't it feel right......does it not feel like it would allow a broader amount of traps to work, encourage dynamic play a bit more.......as well as matching what many of our brains already feel, and love about our little escape from reality......that this is a fight, and a fight to the end.......to quote the immortal comment......"Finsh him!!' lol. And also encourages another great famous vibe........this is fight club, and in fight club......you MUST fight!! )
Ackbar67 You are using the words, literally a KO bonus, then referring to a time bonus. That is a time bonus, that both are entitled to. And you refer to my 500 or 1000 points as though I suggested it as a replacement, but I didn't, it's as well as. You say the opponent had a cleaner fight, so won the round......but that is only under this rule set......only a couple of seasons ago that would have been a loss......and, as I highlighted in my message, that player didn't so much have a clean fight, just a very very safe one....as I said, I know that match up very well.
But let us step away from that single match, because while it highlights a grey area, it is not the full story, the full story is the scoring system, and when it overlaps. It can overlap there, where it did, and there, it looks very clear cut that under this rule set, kingpin is much healthier, he wins the fight. But that overlap, and I'm sure we've all seen it, can happen at any time......I guess any 3 number system, there are countless variations. So that same situation can happen if you KO your opponent, and scrape out of there with 6% health, and they scrape out of there with 11% health but 3% left on your defender.....or I don't know, pick a number and it probably works. My point is, results like that are basically a coin flip and which side of the flip you landed on........I'd be all in favour of that coin flip going to the person that got the KO.
The 500 or 1000 point reference was only to this current rule set, to give the edge to the KO in those fine margin fights. But who is to say this rule set is perfect? Kabam themselves have openly said they want to keep trying things. My hope is......they tried 15k points for time, and it gave far to much advantage to the nukes.....now they've tried 10k points for the time, and it's diluted the importance of dynamic play to get a KO, and also diluted the cool feeling of the KO......so hopefully now, they try the next logical test, and shoot in between, 12.5k for time. I honestly feel that would hit a happy medium, where nukes still get punished, and a cleaner KO will win the day. I could be wrong, 12.5k could just tip the scales back towards the nukes to much.......buy that just brings me back to I believe a small KO bonus, outside of the time remaining score, would be a cool addition to this particular rule set.
Lastly, I'd really like to point out, I've been around a long time in this game, I was paragon within a month of it's release, I do all the content, so have a very good base roster......but more importantly, yes, I was here for July 4th, so don't really need to say anymore about my roster.......I'm also in a privileged position to be able to rank up for metas, and all that sort of jazz. And, the unfortunate facts are, I can overpower people with my roster......that could have been me winning that fight with my kingpin, against a roster just not quite as powerful as mine.....because I am in a lucky position to have taken advantage of July 4th. So a change like that, that would give a win to my opponent in that circumstance......YEP, I'm all in favour of trying out that system.
Ivar Seems quite a strange reply to my message......I was unaware that to speak hear I then had to be likened to somebody, then judged accordingly, based solely on my resemblance to said person. Thank you kindly for informing me I will be subjected to such scrutiny. Thank you also for informing me that DNA is someone to be impersonated, and that I am in fact bad at it........thus also, I assume because that is the only part of any of my message you responded to, that every other point or opinion I have is rendered irrelevant because of my lack of impersonating skills. ...........or......could it just be you're just bitter, for the sake of being bitter??.......no, surely not.
Ackbar67 You are using the words, literally a KO bonus, then referring to a time bonus. That is a time bonus, that both are entitled to
A KO bonus would be points that are only obtainable if you KO the opponent, correct? Under the current rule set, you are only eligible for time points if you KO the opponent. It may not be called 'KO Bonus', but it functions as one. Notably, it has not always been this way. If you take a look at the first public appearance of Battlegrounds (I believe it was called Draft Battles at the time), players got the time bonus regardless of whether or not they got the KO. This led to some insane outcomes, like this one.
Both players lost their fights, yet the winner was the one who did less damage, because they died quicker and got more time points. It made absolutely no sense, so they changed the time points to function as a KO bonus.
Comments
Why there is a pause on this kind of match?
Why someone would pause to do anything?
Lol
Get rid of pause button on BG, please
No 2 game modes have the same sort of criteria.
Quests you can use how many ever revives and potions and die as much as you want and everyone gets the same rewards.
AQ has a limit on how many items you can use and no of fights and prestige will dictate what rewards you get.
AW makes you lose rewards everytime you die.
In arena what matters is most fights done.
BG is meant to be a PvP with a different sort of winning where health lost, defender health left and fight time all factor into scoring
health = 15k points.
It's already doubled, if you win a fight but you are bruised damaged and injured as well, then win doesn't taste too good.
An informative post, and seems not only well thought out, but also very much intended to be helpful.
I'd like to move away from the 'pay the nuke' vibe though, and would be very much interested in your opinion focused more on this individual case, and how it highlights one particular aspect of the scoring system that could be tweaked to address a minor flaw in the scoring system.
For perspective, I'm an every season GC player from the start of bgs, we've seen it all haven't we.....sandbagging, never did it, pausing, never did it, farming for points, never do it, season after season of changes, 1-1 token ratios, 2-1 token ratios, added tiers, seeding, armour meta, nuke metas......change after change, and I'm always in the GC in the first week, maybe within the first 10 days if I happened to have been particularly busy.
I try to come here to find positive conversations about how to keep tweaking the mode.....unfortunately I gave up long ago, because threads are just about match making, with each change bringing a different group or level of player to now be upset with, and the threads spiral in negative war zones, where you can literally open a thread, read the OP, and before you get past the third reply, you know it's time to get out of there.
Anybody can check my chat history right? So all can see I don't comment on all those bgs posts, nor am I one here complaining about any single change.....I don't like a lot, I even hate a lot, but I just crack on and hope for better changes in the future. All I've ever know from this mode, is I face monsters from my very first match of the season, all the way through to my last match of the season, I get the fun of the odd match against the Lags, karate Mike, Vega, Dab wests, and people like that......even had the fun of going down 2-0 to bitter steal in the VT this season.
Anyway, I digress, just wanted to point out that when it comes to match making, all I know is facing monsters, so find it hard to read through countless threads about it, with each side at war with each other, in a hope I'll find some positive steps, and maybe a bit of unity, happening.
So, back to this thread
Yes, what you've said in your post is true, but there's always room for improvement......so allow me to indulge this if you will
Kingpin is my favourite champ, has been since his buff......while everyone was running around talking about the moleman and Falcon buff, I was running around telling everyone to rank up their kingpins, as I went destroying act 7 with him, my first r4, my first r5, and I'll accend him.......so safe to say I know kingpin.
I'm also the happy owner of an r2 Sassy.....so I'm very aware of his capabilities on defense.
In this individual case.......if that Sassy was r2, kingpin was going to struggle, so if there was a KO bonus, from the start, they aren't going to be rewarded for just going in with a safe tanky champ.
In this individual case, he gets rewarded for putting down a champ that does damage to you, but his opponent doesn't get rewarded for putting down a champ that is hard to enough damage to in order to drop them.......so his trap was allowed to work, while the OP's trap wasn't.
We all play under the same rule set, so the rules are the rules......but which rules do we want........a rule set that encourages a strategy that encourages dynamic play, and where as many people's trap as possible work, or one where you can hope to dance around and hope your opponents have a worse time?
So, I've used the leave Nick on 1% in his first life and dance around for the win as one example, but in regards to this individual fight......as I said, I know kingpin.
I'm guessing that was a r1 Sassy, and if that's the case, to drop that fight, you have to fight Sassy through his wrath phases.......if you just try and wait them out, you won't get the fight down..........which looks like that's what this person may have done.......so we all want the person that just did 5 hit combos with a tanky champ that heals, then waited out the only dynamic part of the fight that requires skill to keep doing damage through rewarded for a win?
That Sassy is nowhere near down....so it's not like it's close......so to those saying "high health shows control in a fight.....", sure to a certain extent, by and large, or whatever other catchphrase one wants to use.
But the simple fact is, if that person was in control of the fight, they probably would have dropped Sassy, and if that person knew from the start that he can't just stall the fight out because the KO bonus could cost him, then maybe he would have had to try somebody else, and risk damage to get the fight down.......and the system then rewarding both direct damage champ traps, and big healthpool champ traps.
So no, in no way am I saying pay the nuke........but a KO bonus instantly address a small, but grey area.
There will always be a coin toss moment when it comes to scoring right? Always a point like this OP's match, where the point system overlaps......so when we weigh up all the factors, some I've tried to highlight here, would we not rather that the coin toss deciding factor when to the person that got through their opponents trap and actually got the fight down.
500 points, 1000 points.......I don't know the balance........but doesn't it feel right......does it not feel like it would allow a broader amount of traps to work, encourage dynamic play a bit more.......as well as matching what many of our brains already feel, and love about our little escape from reality......that this is a fight, and a fight to the end.......to quote the immortal comment......"Finsh him!!' lol.
And also encourages another great famous vibe........this is fight club, and in fight club......you MUST fight!!
Sorry so long, and thanks for listening.
You are using the words, literally a KO bonus, then referring to a time bonus. That is a time bonus, that both are entitled to.
And you refer to my 500 or 1000 points as though I suggested it as a replacement, but I didn't, it's as well as.
You say the opponent had a cleaner fight, so won the round......but that is only under this rule set......only a couple of seasons ago that would have been a loss......and, as I highlighted in my message, that player didn't so much have a clean fight, just a very very safe one....as I said, I know that match up very well.
But let us step away from that single match, because while it highlights a grey area, it is not the full story, the full story is the scoring system, and when it overlaps.
It can overlap there, where it did, and there, it looks very clear cut that under this rule set, kingpin is much healthier, he wins the fight.
But that overlap, and I'm sure we've all seen it, can happen at any time......I guess any 3 number system, there are countless variations.
So that same situation can happen if you KO your opponent, and scrape out of there with 6% health, and they scrape out of there with 11% health but 3% left on your defender.....or I don't know, pick a number and it probably works.
My point is, results like that are basically a coin flip and which side of the flip you landed on........I'd be all in favour of that coin flip going to the person that got the KO.
The 500 or 1000 point reference was only to this current rule set, to give the edge to the KO in those fine margin fights. But who is to say this rule set is perfect? Kabam themselves have openly said they want to keep trying things.
My hope is......they tried 15k points for time, and it gave far to much advantage to the nukes.....now they've tried 10k points for the time, and it's diluted the importance of dynamic play to get a KO, and also diluted the cool feeling of the KO......so hopefully now, they try the next logical test, and shoot in between, 12.5k for time.
I honestly feel that would hit a happy medium, where nukes still get punished, and a cleaner KO will win the day.
I could be wrong, 12.5k could just tip the scales back towards the nukes to much.......buy that just brings me back to I believe a small KO bonus, outside of the time remaining score, would be a cool addition to this particular rule set.
Lastly, I'd really like to point out, I've been around a long time in this game, I was paragon within a month of it's release, I do all the content, so have a very good base roster......but more importantly, yes, I was here for July 4th, so don't really need to say anymore about my roster.......I'm also in a privileged position to be able to rank up for metas, and all that sort of jazz.
And, the unfortunate facts are, I can overpower people with my roster......that could have been me winning that fight with my kingpin, against a roster just not quite as powerful as mine.....because I am in a lucky position to have taken advantage of July 4th.
So a change like that, that would give a win to my opponent in that circumstance......YEP, I'm all in favour of trying out that system.
Seems quite a strange reply to my message......I was unaware that to speak hear I then had to be likened to somebody, then judged accordingly, based solely on my resemblance to said person.
Thank you kindly for informing me I will be subjected to such scrutiny.
Thank you also for informing me that DNA is someone to be impersonated, and that I am in fact bad at it........thus also, I assume because that is the only part of any of my message you responded to, that every other point or opinion I have is rendered irrelevant because of my lack of impersonating skills.
...........or......could it just be you're just bitter, for the sake of being bitter??.......no, surely not.
Both players lost their fights, yet the winner was the one who did less damage, because they died quicker and got more time points. It made absolutely no sense, so they changed the time points to function as a KO bonus.