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Attack bonus gives advantage to higher rated alliance

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  • DL864DL864 Member Posts: 1,089 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    AJ_Engel30 wrote: »
    I think they finally got War right. They have eliminated the "buy a war win" and added in a metric for Skill. That's the very Metric you want eliminated. Your alliance needs to focus on better game planning. Choose or assign the paths best suited for each players strong suite.

    How about we just eliminate revives all together then???

    I'm not for that at all. Revives have nothing to do with Attack Bonus, first of all. Secondly, that's one of the purposes of setting it up that way. It encourages skill, but doesn't penalize using Resources. That's not what Defender Kills were about. It might have been how some gauges whether to use them or not. No logical setup is going to penalize using Resources. They are there for a reason. This whole idea of shaming Allies for using them needs to go. We had them before the changes, and we have them after.

    Revives have a lot to do with attack bonus lol if you have to revive then you lose points so I essentially they are giving you points for the defender kills they’re just not calling it that.
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    DL864 wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    roastedbagel wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    linux wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    yz5vjnpec5i9.png
    We faced an alliance that was rated a million more than us. We beat them in every metric except attack bonus / defender kills. They had stronger champs, simple as that. There should be no bonus for defeating a defender on the first attempt and no penalty for failing to defeat them. You're already limited on revives / potions. We keep getting matched with alliances a million+ more than us. At least improve matching and match us with a closer rated alliance. We're currently 4.7 mil. It would seem reasonable to match with 4.5 - 5 mil alliances. Also, if there's going to be a bonus it should be for full participation in attack phase. We had full participation while they had one that never participated in attack phase.

    You were matched with an alliance 1m higher than you in total ranking -- that suggests that you play better than alliances with similar total PI, so you should be matched up against alliances like the one you just fought.

    In MCOC's AW matching system -- when you win, you get harder matches; when you lose, you get easier matches. In the long run, wins and losses will be similar; but it is a feature, not a bug, that you're given a chance to compete against alliances with higher PI if you do well against alliances with similar total PI.

    There are problems with the AW matching system (new alliances take far too long to reach the right war rating), but IMO this not one of them.

    This is our 4th loss in a row. I don't think we've ever lost 4 in a row until the recent changes. We've never gone an entire series of war without a single win.

    Hate to sound harsh but sounds like your alliance needs to get better at fighting.

    This is pretty close to the old defender kill metric and is very much based on skill once again (thank God).

    You guys are dying too much, simple as that.

    And it's impossible to match you to an alliance that will have exactly equal champs for you to fight. There's gonna be some that are a bit stronger and some that are weaker.

    That's what WAR is all about.

    We did die too much. Thanks captain obvious! It's not impossible to improve matchmaking. All we've been getting are stronger ones. I don't know all the metrics they use to match, but they need improvement. I've felt that way since I started playing this game.

    So you want a war where you can pay to win?

    Clearly you haven't read everything I wrote. I'm perfectly happy to have them remove revives and potions altogether, but one thing you all seem to forget is without those that pay, this game would cease to be supported. Attack bonus doesn't eliminate pay to win, BTW.
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    DL864 wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    AJ_Engel30 wrote: »
    I think they finally got War right. They have eliminated the "buy a war win" and added in a metric for Skill. That's the very Metric you want eliminated. Your alliance needs to focus on better game planning. Choose or assign the paths best suited for each players strong suite.

    How about we just eliminate revives all together then???

    I'm not for that at all. Revives have nothing to do with Attack Bonus, first of all. Secondly, that's one of the purposes of setting it up that way. It encourages skill, but doesn't penalize using Resources. That's not what Defender Kills were about. It might have been how some gauges whether to use them or not. No logical setup is going to penalize using Resources. They are there for a reason. This whole idea of shaming Allies for using them needs to go. We had them before the changes, and we have them after.

    Revives have a lot to do with attack bonus lol if you have to revive then you lose points so I essentially they are giving you points for the defender kills they’re just not calling it that.

    You can top your health off to help you get the win on the first try or less tries if you have to revive. So you can still pay to increase your attack bonus.
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    Last time I checked you can buy units that you can use to buy boosts which help you win on the first or less tries too
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    Mr_Platypus wrote: »
    So your alliance members died more than your opponents and now you’re crying because that’s unfair and you lost? Get a grip mate. The more skilled alliance deserves to win and that was clearly your opponents this time.
    Come back this war, analyse who’s dying repeatedly and help them fight better, then maybe you’ll win more.

    Not crying lol Never complained about war before unlike many of you. Attack bonus should be combo bonus, if you really want to measure skill. Attack bonus is not a good measure of skill. The better alliance didn't win.
  • LoPrestiLoPresti Member Posts: 1,035 ★★★
    git gud and don't die so often then.
  • DL864DL864 Member Posts: 1,089 ★★★
    I don’t understand what you are complaining about they were the more skilled ally on that day. They died less then you did and that gave them the win. Sounds like the new system is working perfectly. You die more then the other team you lose. So explain to me how they were not more skilled then you on that day.
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  • MhykkeMhykke Member Posts: 431 ★★★
    edited January 2018
    DL864 wrote: »
    I don’t understand what you are complaining about they were the more skilled ally on that day. They died less then you did and that gave them the win. Sounds like the new system is working perfectly. You die more then the other team you lose. So explain to me how they were not more skilled then you on that day.

    He's saying there's a possibility of the other alliance members healing up after every fight in order to one shot nodes.

    I find this unlikely (as it would require the opposite alliance to be good enough to one shot nodes, but not good enough to do so without taking a lot of damage, but not enough to die)...and even if that were the case, you'd still have to be able to one shot more nodes

    But hey, people always look to blame external factors to compensate for their own lack of inner resources.

  • DL864DL864 Member Posts: 1,089 ★★★
    Mhykke wrote: »
    DL864 wrote: »
    I don’t understand what you are complaining about they were the more skilled ally on that day. They died less then you did and that gave them the win. Sounds like the new system is working perfectly. You die more then the other team you lose. So explain to me how they were not more skilled then you on that day.

    He's saying there's a possibility of the other alliance members healing up after every fight in order to one shot nodes.

    I find this unlikely, and even if that were the case, you'd still have to be able to one shot more nodes (if someone is able to one shot most nodes on a path, unlikely that they're getting beat badly, but just not enough to die each time)

    But hey, people always look to blame external factors to compensate for their own lack of inner resources.

    So basically the opposing team played smart about healing the champs not going with low health and his team decided to fight with low health and die. I still don’t see how you can complain about that. Play smarter you win
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    edited January 2018
    scottstevenson86 wrote: »
    Lol we are a 7 mil alliance that regularly fight and beat 11 mil alliances. The scoring is finally right. Kabaam finally fixed war dont give them any ideas to change anything just stop dying lol.

    We just now hit 5 million, are in tier 7, and just matched with a 16 million alliance... I know that has nothing to do with attack bonus, which I still don't agree with its implementation and it being an accurate measure of skill. Clearly matchmaking is not working properly. War needs improvement. They need an exit button during placement phase, just like in solo quests, in case someone joins that shouldn't, or accidentally joins with a champ short. Also, they should make it so the leader has the ability to exit anyone during placement phase. They should measure combos and / or base the bonus on how much of the attackers health was reduced, then subtracted from the defenders max health, and award a percentage of the total bonus. For example, let's say the defender has a max health of 30k, and your first attacker goes in the fight with 6k health remaining. He gets KO'd. Now you go in with your second champ that has 14k health. You win but you lose 9k in health, leaving you with only 5k health remaining for that champ. You lost a total of 15k in health between your 2 champs, and the defender's max health was 30k. So you would get 50% of the attack bonus. If the bonus is 300 per defender then you would be awarded 150 points in this scenario. The bonus would continue subtracting health lost for each subsequent attempt until reaching 0. This would eliminate potions and revives from being as much a factor in the bonus, and eliminate the unwritten penalty that now exists for reviving first before potioning up.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,693 ★★★★★
    SonikGold wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    yz5vjnpec5i9.png
    We faced an alliance that was rated a million more than us. We beat them in every metric except attack bonus / defender kills. They had stronger champs, simple as that. There should be no bonus for defeating a defender on the first attempt and no penalty for failing to defeat them. You're already limited on revives / potions. We keep getting matched with alliances a million+ more than us. At least improve matching and match us with a closer rated alliance. We're currently 4.7 mil. It would seem reasonable to match with 4.5 - 5 mil alliances. Also, if there's going to be a bonus it should be for full participation in attack phase. We had full participation while they had one that never participated in attack phase.

    Saying you beat them in every metric except attack bonus is meaningless, because attack bonus is the critical metric that measures attacker performance. That's like saying you beat an opposing football team in every metric except touchdowns.

    You don't understand what a metric is. Defeating the boss is the touchdown, which is a metric. Exploration is a metric, total yards. Attack bonus is like number of first downs, another metric. Every line is a different metric.

    Sure, the football analogy breaks down. But I think not dying is a pretty critical metric in war lol.
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    yz5vjnpec5i9.png
    We faced an alliance that was rated a million more than us. We beat them in every metric except attack bonus / defender kills. They had stronger champs, simple as that. There should be no bonus for defeating a defender on the first attempt and no penalty for failing to defeat them. You're already limited on revives / potions. We keep getting matched with alliances a million+ more than us. At least improve matching and match us with a closer rated alliance. We're currently 4.7 mil. It would seem reasonable to match with 4.5 - 5 mil alliances. Also, if there's going to be a bonus it should be for full participation in attack phase. We had full participation while they had one that never participated in attack phase.

    Saying you beat them in every metric except attack bonus is meaningless, because attack bonus is the critical metric that measures attacker performance. That's like saying you beat an opposing football team in every metric except touchdowns.

    You don't understand what a metric is. Defeating the boss is the touchdown, which is a metric. Exploration is a metric, total yards. Attack bonus is like number of first downs, another metric. Every line is a different metric.

    Sure, the football analogy breaks down. But I think not dying is a pretty critical metric in war lol.

    I agree, which if you read all my posts you'll see I'm all for just getting rid of revives and potions in war.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,693 ★★★★★
    SonikGold wrote: »
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    yz5vjnpec5i9.png
    We faced an alliance that was rated a million more than us. We beat them in every metric except attack bonus / defender kills. They had stronger champs, simple as that. There should be no bonus for defeating a defender on the first attempt and no penalty for failing to defeat them. You're already limited on revives / potions. We keep getting matched with alliances a million+ more than us. At least improve matching and match us with a closer rated alliance. We're currently 4.7 mil. It would seem reasonable to match with 4.5 - 5 mil alliances. Also, if there's going to be a bonus it should be for full participation in attack phase. We had full participation while they had one that never participated in attack phase.

    Saying you beat them in every metric except attack bonus is meaningless, because attack bonus is the critical metric that measures attacker performance. That's like saying you beat an opposing football team in every metric except touchdowns.

    You don't understand what a metric is. Defeating the boss is the touchdown, which is a metric. Exploration is a metric, total yards. Attack bonus is like number of first downs, another metric. Every line is a different metric.

    Sure, the football analogy breaks down. But I think not dying is a pretty critical metric in war lol.

    I agree, which if you read all my posts you'll see I'm all for just getting rid of revives and potions in war.

    I'd be fine with that too. We had a few wars awhile back where we made a no items agreement with the other side. It was fun. There is zero chance this will ever happen though. There is a reason why item use is an alliance quest lol. Kabam will never discourage item use.
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    SonikGold wrote: »
    yz5vjnpec5i9.png
    We faced an alliance that was rated a million more than us. We beat them in every metric except attack bonus / defender kills. They had stronger champs, simple as that. There should be no bonus for defeating a defender on the first attempt and no penalty for failing to defeat them. You're already limited on revives / potions. We keep getting matched with alliances a million+ more than us. At least improve matching and match us with a closer rated alliance. We're currently 4.7 mil. It would seem reasonable to match with 4.5 - 5 mil alliances. Also, if there's going to be a bonus it should be for full participation in attack phase. We had full participation while they had one that never participated in attack phase.

    Saying you beat them in every metric except attack bonus is meaningless, because attack bonus is the critical metric that measures attacker performance. That's like saying you beat an opposing football team in every metric except touchdowns.

    You don't understand what a metric is. Defeating the boss is the touchdown, which is a metric. Exploration is a metric, total yards. Attack bonus is like number of first downs, another metric. Every line is a different metric.

    Sure, the football analogy breaks down. But I think not dying is a pretty critical metric in war lol.

    I agree, which if you read all my posts you'll see I'm all for just getting rid of revives and potions in war.

    I'd be fine with that too. We had a few wars awhile back where we made a no items agreement with the other side. It was fun. There is zero chance this will ever happen though. There is a reason why item use is an alliance quest lol. Kabam will never discourage item use.

    Nice! I'm all for items in quests. Just get rid of them in war, but yeah, we know kabam will never do that lol
  • SonikGoldSonikGold Member Posts: 46 ★
    SonikGold wrote: »
    scottstevenson86 wrote: »
    Lol we are a 7 mil alliance that regularly fight and beat 11 mil alliances. The scoring is finally right. Kabaam finally fixed war dont give them any ideas to change anything just stop dying lol.

    We just now hit 5 million, are in tier 7, and just matched with a 16 million alliance... I know that has nothing to do with attack bonus, which I still don't agree with its implementation and it being an accurate measure of skill. Clearly matchmaking is not working properly. War needs improvement. They need an exit button during placement phase, just like in solo quests, in case someone joins that shouldn't, or accidentally joins with a champ short. Also, they should make it so the leader has the ability to exit anyone during placement phase. They should measure combos and / or base the bonus on how much of the attackers health was reduced, then subtracted from the defenders max health, and award a percentage of the total bonus. For example, let's say the defender has a max health of 30k, and your first attacker goes in the fight with 6k health remaining. He gets KO'd. Now you go in with your second champ that has 14k health. You win but you lose 9k in health, leaving you with only 5k health remaining for that champ. You lost a total of 15k in health between your 2 champs, and the defender's max health was 30k. So you would get 50% of the attack bonus. If the bonus is 300 per defender then you would be awarded 150 points in this scenario. The bonus would continue subtracting health lost for each subsequent attempt until reaching 0. This would eliminate potions and revives from being as much a factor in the bonus, and eliminate the unwritten penalty that now exists for reviving first before potioning up.

    Another reason for having an exit button during placement is if someone joins the wrong BG accidentally or didn't see your message for them to switch BGs
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