The Lizard (Science) Design Concept

PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
*Note*
This is not an official design or leak made or supported by Kabam or the MCOC team.

[Signature Ability: Strength of Science
- All of The Lizard's special attacks cannot be dexed and are now passively unblockable
- Every time a bleed is placed on the opponent (active or passive) or fails to place on the opponent place a passive rupture charge which when the heavy attack is launched deals 1%-10% (depending on sig level) of your base attack per rupture charge; if the opponent is immune to bleed all rupture charges consumed will turn into ruptures the same way the bleeds would
- When finishing a combo with a light attack inflict a regeneration debuff on the opponent that heals 1%-5% (depending on sig level) of their base health
- The first bleed placed on the opponent is indefinite and cannot be removed or cleansed by any means including The Lizard's own kit
]

[Abilities:
- Curt starts the fight with poison, power sting, and precision immunities and decreases the time of all other damaging debuffs on him by 60%
- When a precision buff would be gained, instead gain a buff immunity debuff that lasts for 10 seconds; the buff immunity doesn't stack but refreshes if retriggered
- If a buff fails to be placed because of the buff immunity, The Lizard places a 10% petrify debuff on the opponent
- When Conners' intercepts the opponent he places a 100% specter debuff for 10 seconds (Im not too sure about the percentage I just want this to cancel willpower); on defense this places when the attacker is struck by The Lizard's first medium and can apply through block unless it is a parry
- Each basic hit has a 75% chance to inflict a 10 second bleed debuff that does 5% of his base damage per tick; all bleeds that are cleansed are turned into passives and increased to 15 seconds (starts when they are placed) but do 90% less damage than the normal bleed)
- The heavy attack turns all bleeds (passive or not, except when awakened) into ruptures; these ruptures deal the same damage as the normal bleed however last indefinitely until removed; if these ruptures are cleansed or removed off of the opponent they turn into passives but deal 25% less damage; the heavy does 2 hits
- #Spiderverse champions cannot evade The Lizard and when the evade fails place a 10% petrify on them]

[Specials:
- Special One: Remove all specter and petrify debuffs on the opponent and turn them into passive regeneration buffs that heal 5% of The Lizard's max hp each. The final hit of this attack places an indefinite 25% physical vulnerability on the opponent; if the physical vulnerability is cleansed it is replaced with a 15 second passive 10% one.
- Special Two: This attack does 5 hits and does 2x damage. Each hit does 150% extra direct damage to the opponent per rupture on them. Refresh all ruptures on the opponent.
- Special Three: This attack does 2x more damage for every debuff or passive debuff on the opponent (multipliers add so if there was 3 debuffs on the opponent it would only do 6x damage instead of 8x) and places a permanent 40% fear passive.]

[Cycles:
- For short fights build up to special 2 then launch the first hit of your heavy and launch the special 2 and then launch special ones to regen any lost health
- For medium fights do the same rotation above however only throw special 2s
- For long fights build to special 2, launch the first hit of your heavy and launch the special 2 and then build up to special 3, launch the first hit of your heavy and launch the special 3; rinse repeat]

Thank you for reading and please give any feedback you have

Comments

  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,604 ★★★★★
    Bro has beef with cleanse effects
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    Bro has beef with cleanse effects

    Something like that
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
    5% of max health per debuff removed is genuinely nuts regen especially considering you could just back into the corner and dex a bunch while you have a bar of power loaded. Maybe if it was 5% of missing health it would be better but as is its a lot.

    Him having immunities doesn't make him a relevant defender though, he's not a defender at all so throwing immunity to poison, power sting and buffs on him is just too much. Immunities take up a lot of character kit space as per kabam so maybe giving him poison and buff immunity would work if you tone the rest of the kit down a little but there's no reason for him to be power sting immune
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
    5% of max health per debuff removed is genuinely nuts regen especially considering you could just back into the corner and dex a bunch while you have a bar of power loaded. Maybe if it was 5% of missing health it would be better but as is its a lot.

    Him having immunities doesn't make him a relevant defender though, he's not a defender at all so throwing immunity to poison, power sting and buffs on him is just too much. Immunities take up a lot of character kit space as per kabam so maybe giving him poison and buff immunity would work if you tone the rest of the kit down a little but there's no reason for him to be power sting immune
    For the first part he is immune to precision so it wouldn't count toward that and theres no other way for him to get buffs other than nodes or other champs putting it on him so it would be matchup dependent. And I do believe he would be a relevant defender when awakened due to the heal reversal, unblockable, and undexable specials and even if he isn't it would still be nice to have some defensive utility.

    I do however see that it might be a little overkill to have all damaging debuffs be reduced by 60%; I was hoping this was a defensive mechanic but I see that it is fairly op on attack. I would just say maybe make it only defensive or remove it entirely. I just wanted his defense to be strong and matchup dependent like a lot of defenders today. I don't think Kabam would take it seriously, if they would in the first place, if his defensive prowess wasn't great considering he has a fairly bland offense. And for the powersting, like I said before I want there to be specific counters to him and characters that don't work. And even then its not like most meta relevant champs like cgr wouldn't be able to take him anyway.

    Kabam just has a tendency to release incredibly strong new champs, apart from this year lol, and I feel like they wouldn't take it into consideration if he wasn't strong
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
    5% of max health per debuff removed is genuinely nuts regen especially considering you could just back into the corner and dex a bunch while you have a bar of power loaded. Maybe if it was 5% of missing health it would be better but as is its a lot.

    Him having immunities doesn't make him a relevant defender though, he's not a defender at all so throwing immunity to poison, power sting and buffs on him is just too much. Immunities take up a lot of character kit space as per kabam so maybe giving him poison and buff immunity would work if you tone the rest of the kit down a little but there's no reason for him to be power sting immune
    For the first part he is immune to precision so it wouldn't count toward that and theres no other way for him to get buffs other than nodes or other champs putting it on him so it would be matchup dependent. And I do believe he would be a relevant defender when awakened due to the heal reversal, unblockable, and undexable specials and even if he isn't it would still be nice to have some defensive utility.

    I do however see that it might be a little overkill to have all damaging debuffs be reduced by 60%; I was hoping this was a defensive mechanic but I see that it is fairly op on attack. I would just say maybe make it only defensive or remove it entirely. I just wanted his defense to be strong and matchup dependent like a lot of defenders today. I don't think Kabam would take it seriously, if they would in the first place, if his defensive prowess wasn't great considering he has a fairly bland offense. And for the powersting, like I said before I want there to be specific counters to him and characters that don't work. And even then its not like most meta relevant champs like cgr wouldn't be able to take him anyway.

    Kabam just has a tendency to release incredibly strong new champs, apart from this year lol, and I feel like they wouldn't take it into consideration if he wasn't strong
    No buff immune champions have buffs beyond dex that they apply to themselves, but in matches where buffs are placed on them by nodes or other champions or hell even just odin pre fights is what makes them so powerful. Even with his heal reversal and immunity he isn't a strong defender because you can just intercept or use a champ that is immune to heal rate reduction and he has nothing he can do to you.

    The power sting immunity doesn't really track as necessary because what specific champions is it intended to counter? You can give him power sting immunity, but it has to be for a reason beyond just making the 5 power sting champions in the game that don't seem to be particularly great counters to begin with unusable.
  • The_Unnamed99The_Unnamed99 Member Posts: 58
    edited August 5
    Not to interrupt this conversation, but what's the difference between saying a champ gains missing health or max health? They sound like the same thing to me.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★

    Not to interrupt this conversation, but what's the difference between saying a champ gains missing health or max health? They sound like the same thing to me.

    3% of max health is the same amount regardless of how much health he has, 3% of missing health is at 3% max health at absolute most but gets smaller the more you heal. It basically means that if you're near death you heal more but you aren't going to be hitting max health as its basically just filling 3% of the difference between current health and max health.
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    Not to interrupt this conversation, but what's the difference between saying a champ gains missing health or max health? They sound like the same thing to me.

    If a champ regains 5% of missing health, lets say they've lost 10% of their health, they would only get 0.5% of their total health back where as if it is max health they would just gain 5% back
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
    5% of max health per debuff removed is genuinely nuts regen especially considering you could just back into the corner and dex a bunch while you have a bar of power loaded. Maybe if it was 5% of missing health it would be better but as is its a lot.

    Him having immunities doesn't make him a relevant defender though, he's not a defender at all so throwing immunity to poison, power sting and buffs on him is just too much. Immunities take up a lot of character kit space as per kabam so maybe giving him poison and buff immunity would work if you tone the rest of the kit down a little but there's no reason for him to be power sting immune
    For the first part he is immune to precision so it wouldn't count toward that and theres no other way for him to get buffs other than nodes or other champs putting it on him so it would be matchup dependent. And I do believe he would be a relevant defender when awakened due to the heal reversal, unblockable, and undexable specials and even if he isn't it would still be nice to have some defensive utility.

    I do however see that it might be a little overkill to have all damaging debuffs be reduced by 60%; I was hoping this was a defensive mechanic but I see that it is fairly op on attack. I would just say maybe make it only defensive or remove it entirely. I just wanted his defense to be strong and matchup dependent like a lot of defenders today. I don't think Kabam would take it seriously, if they would in the first place, if his defensive prowess wasn't great considering he has a fairly bland offense. And for the powersting, like I said before I want there to be specific counters to him and characters that don't work. And even then its not like most meta relevant champs like cgr wouldn't be able to take him anyway.

    Kabam just has a tendency to release incredibly strong new champs, apart from this year lol, and I feel like they wouldn't take it into consideration if he wasn't strong
    No buff immune champions have buffs beyond dex that they apply to themselves, but in matches where buffs are placed on them by nodes or other champions or hell even just odin pre fights is what makes them so powerful. Even with his heal reversal and immunity he isn't a strong defender because you can just intercept or use a champ that is immune to heal rate reduction and he has nothing he can do to you.

    The power sting immunity doesn't really track as necessary because what specific champions is it intended to counter? You can give him power sting immunity, but it has to be for a reason beyond just making the 5 power sting champions in the game that don't seem to be particularly great counters to begin with unusable.
    Yes it is incredibly strong with certain nodes but thats the point. Its the same way tigra or wiccan is incredibly strong against champions and nodes with buffs and again it wouldn't finish fighs quickly or effectively. And yeah I wouldn't say hes the strongest defender I just want him to have some defensive prowess and potentially frustrating when using a bad champ for him. And yeah "If you don't make mistakes the fight it easy peasy!" tracks for 99.9% of all champs in the game other than like serpent or bullseye. If you make a mistake ofc the fight isn't going to go as planned.

    Yes it isn't necessary but its fun and different. You could say this about serpent's 90% reduced bleed duration; unnecessary but it allows him to reduce the strength of certain attackers.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    PotatoGod said:

    This is way too strong whilst also not really being that useful somehow. The regen he gains alone is nuts and for the amount of immunities he has he shouldn't really have that much else that he can do

    How is the regen too strong? For most fights he would only be getting 1 regen per special one which wouldn't really be stacking up damage so he wouldn't come out of fights quickly. The only time the regen would be out of control is nodes where he'd get buffs or champions that put buffs on him ex: Kushala

    The immunities is just so that hes a relevant defender and can't get nuked down by champs that put a ton of debuffs on him.
    5% of max health per debuff removed is genuinely nuts regen especially considering you could just back into the corner and dex a bunch while you have a bar of power loaded. Maybe if it was 5% of missing health it would be better but as is its a lot.

    Him having immunities doesn't make him a relevant defender though, he's not a defender at all so throwing immunity to poison, power sting and buffs on him is just too much. Immunities take up a lot of character kit space as per kabam so maybe giving him poison and buff immunity would work if you tone the rest of the kit down a little but there's no reason for him to be power sting immune
    For the first part he is immune to precision so it wouldn't count toward that and theres no other way for him to get buffs other than nodes or other champs putting it on him so it would be matchup dependent. And I do believe he would be a relevant defender when awakened due to the heal reversal, unblockable, and undexable specials and even if he isn't it would still be nice to have some defensive utility.

    I do however see that it might be a little overkill to have all damaging debuffs be reduced by 60%; I was hoping this was a defensive mechanic but I see that it is fairly op on attack. I would just say maybe make it only defensive or remove it entirely. I just wanted his defense to be strong and matchup dependent like a lot of defenders today. I don't think Kabam would take it seriously, if they would in the first place, if his defensive prowess wasn't great considering he has a fairly bland offense. And for the powersting, like I said before I want there to be specific counters to him and characters that don't work. And even then its not like most meta relevant champs like cgr wouldn't be able to take him anyway.

    Kabam just has a tendency to release incredibly strong new champs, apart from this year lol, and I feel like they wouldn't take it into consideration if he wasn't strong
    No buff immune champions have buffs beyond dex that they apply to themselves, but in matches where buffs are placed on them by nodes or other champions or hell even just odin pre fights is what makes them so powerful. Even with his heal reversal and immunity he isn't a strong defender because you can just intercept or use a champ that is immune to heal rate reduction and he has nothing he can do to you.

    The power sting immunity doesn't really track as necessary because what specific champions is it intended to counter? You can give him power sting immunity, but it has to be for a reason beyond just making the 5 power sting champions in the game that don't seem to be particularly great counters to begin with unusable.
    Yes it is incredibly strong with certain nodes but thats the point. Its the same way tigra or wiccan is incredibly strong against champions and nodes with buffs and again it wouldn't finish fighs quickly or effectively. And yeah I wouldn't say hes the strongest defender I just want him to have some defensive prowess and potentially frustrating when using a bad champ for him. And yeah "If you don't make mistakes the fight it easy peasy!" tracks for 99.9% of all champs in the game other than like serpent or bullseye. If you make a mistake ofc the fight isn't going to go as planned.

    Yes it isn't necessary but its fun and different. You could say this about serpent's 90% reduced bleed duration; unnecessary but it allows him to reduce the strength of certain attackers.
    The difference here being that if you use the odin pre fights and aggressively push to sp1 you could very easily heal from 10% up to hear 100%.

    Obviously abilities can be added for fun, but it's not like he's a skill champion who's designed to counter science, he's a science champion that's essentially immune to an ability that very few champions use for seemingly no reason
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
    Well if you're using odin prefights I mean it doesn't really matter since its either questing or aw. Questing isn't competitive and having op champs with op abilities in there due to nodes or kits has never really mattered. Aw it does slightly but again, even with odin prefights, you'd be healing a maximum of 20% on the first special 1 and 5% on every other one which could be strong, but high tier war already has people finishing fights in 20sec or less so it probably wouldn't be optimal in any way to winning the war unless you already had a significant lead which then it wouldn't matter anyways.

    I guess but I kinda wanted him to not be countered by those champs. This is my idea so I'll add what I want to it because mcoc has never really been a game of 'sense' and its just a fun idea to throw around.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    Well if you're using odin prefights I mean it doesn't really matter since its either questing or aw. Questing isn't competitive and having op champs with op abilities in there due to nodes or kits has never really mattered. Aw it does slightly but again, even with odin prefights, you'd be healing a maximum of 20% on the first special 1 and 5% on every other one which could be strong, but high tier war already has people finishing fights in 20sec or less so it probably wouldn't be optimal in any way to winning the war unless you already had a significant lead which then it wouldn't matter anyways.

    I guess but I kinda wanted him to not be countered by those champs. This is my idea so I'll add what I want to it because mcoc has never really been a game of 'sense' and its just a fun idea to throw around.

    I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just explaining how the design philosophy in this game works. Questing does matter, and his healing could be very exploitable, especially considering that any debuff on him is going to bump that healing up with willpower.

    I get what you're saying about the power sting, but he wouldn't be countered by those champions to begin with
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93
    Questing realistically doesn't matter to a champ's kit because there will always be nodes that drastically enhance a champion's power. The only time I personally see it being too overpowered is in endgame content like necropolis or spring of sorrow, neither of which give you buffs often. And yes the willpower is strong but we see it on multiple other champs like kingpin for ex.

    Powersting champs aren't necessarily counters to any other champs, they are just good against most other champs so yeah he wouldn't be 'countered' by them but he would get nuked down like any other non-powersting immune champ
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    Don’t turn off dex please, we’ve had enough of that already
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★
    PotatoGod said:

    Questing realistically doesn't matter to a champ's kit because there will always be nodes that drastically enhance a champion's power. The only time I personally see it being too overpowered is in endgame content like necropolis or spring of sorrow, neither of which give you buffs often. And yes the willpower is strong but we see it on multiple other champs like kingpin for ex.

    Powersting champs aren't necessarily counters to any other champs, they are just good against most other champs so yeah he wouldn't be 'countered' by them but he would get nuked down like any other non-powersting immune champ

    It would be beyond busted in incursions
  • PotatoGodPotatoGod Member Posts: 93

    PotatoGod said:

    Questing realistically doesn't matter to a champ's kit because there will always be nodes that drastically enhance a champion's power. The only time I personally see it being too overpowered is in endgame content like necropolis or spring of sorrow, neither of which give you buffs often. And yes the willpower is strong but we see it on multiple other champs like kingpin for ex.

    Powersting champs aren't necessarily counters to any other champs, they are just good against most other champs so yeah he wouldn't be 'countered' by them but he would get nuked down like any other non-powersting immune champ

    It would be beyond busted in incursions
    Yeah but so are most other champs anyways and there are nodes that give you max healing anyway
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