White Tiger parried and stunned while using a heavy attack in BGs.

TerminatrixTerminatrix Member Posts: 2,939 ★★★★★
in General Discussion
I was using White Tiger against Serpent.
I threw a heavy attack, he blocked and parried it, stunned WT, then countered with a combo. It wasn't a punishing heavy counter ...he simply somehow blocked/parried her heavy.

Has this happened to anybody else before? I can see if it was a basic hit that was blocked and parried, but a heavy?? That one perplexes me.

Comments

  • TerminatrixTerminatrix Member Posts: 2,939 ★★★★★
    Cloudddey_bro said:

    Stand your ground mastery.

    Doesn't Stand Your Ground make them withstand a heavy attack and resist block break? That's happened before, but not being parried and stunned.
  • Coach_G1Coach_G1 Member Posts: 51 ★
    That just happened to me as well, I never been parried/stunned on a heavy.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,057 ★★★★★
    If its a single hit heavy ir gets resisted, 2 or more hits might get u stunned.
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    Brought it up in march, no response. No where does the stand your ground mastery say it is a well-timed block and the parry mastery specifically says "if contact is made by a basic attack, inflict a stun debuff" which a heavy is not a basic attack as far as I am aware. This to me is a bug that has been in the game a long time now

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/363301/parried-on-heavy-resist#latest
  • BigTuna_2054BigTuna_2054 Member Posts: 126 ★★
    There’s definitely something wrong. My relic striker has been getting dexed and parried as well.
  • TerminatrixTerminatrix Member Posts: 2,939 ★★★★★
    edited September 18
    BringPopcorn said:

    If its a single hit heavy ir gets resisted, 2 or more hits might get u stunned.

    The first hit in her heavy is when she was stunned. There was no "resist" text showing near Serpent either.
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    This would explain the basic attack part so heavy is included as a basic attack from what this says

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/229148/question-what-exactly-is-a-basic-attack

    Still doesn't explain the well-timed block part
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,057 ★★★★★
    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

    Are you going to explain that or just make statements
    I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 488 ★★★
    This isn’t bugged behavior. Stand your ground lets you block heavies. If you can block the attack, then there’s nothing stopping that block from being well-timed (and as we’re all aware, the ai is quite good at doing well-timed blocks these days). If you perform a well-timed block against a basic attack that makes contact, including a heavy, you can inflict parry stun. This is theoretically something you can do as well, not just the ai, it’s just that no one is insane enough to ever try given the multitude of factors going against you (heavies can be charged for a random amount of time so it’s difficult to time the parry, stand your ground isn’t guaranteed, you’re eating a big hit if you mess up or the luck doesn’t turn out in your favor).
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    edited September 18
    BringPopcorn said:

    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

    Are you going to explain that or just make statements
    I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?
    Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

    Just as delusional as ever

    Also I did half your job for you!
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    edited September 18
    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 488 ★★★
    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
    If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 488 ★★★
    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
    If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different
    Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,505 ★★★★★
    A heavy attack is a basic attack and thus they can be parried if you have Stand your ground
  • PantherusNZPantherusNZ Member Posts: 2,184 ★★★★★
    lol no - I honestly don't remember the last time I had a heavy attack parried.
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
    If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different
    Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.
    The code would have to determine if it is one or the other
    • if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
    • if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
    • and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block
    It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

    Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

    Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is
  • Archit_1812Archit_1812 Member Posts: 588 ★★
    Definitely legit. Stand your ground mastery resists heavy attacks, and in the minor event that you hit a heavy into block and your opponent activates said resist, you get parried. It's happened with many people before. That's one of the main reasons I have to ban Doom in BGs. With his personal Resist, Crit Resist, along with stand your ground makes almost all your knockdowns invalid. I've had doom rush in to the last hit of my special 2 because he resisted knockdown.
  • Childish_AlminoChildish_Almino Member Posts: 50 ★
    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
    If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different
    Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.
    The code would have to determine if it is one or the other
    • if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
    • if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
    • and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block
    It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

    Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

    Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is
    With the statement „all well-timed block are blocks but not all blocks are well-timed blocks“ you can see that the well-timed blocks are a subset as they cannot exist without the block feature, meanwhile blocking can exist without parry.

  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 610 ★★★
    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

    Are you going to explain that or just make statements
    I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?
    Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

    Just as delusional as ever

    Also I did half your job for you!
    Ok, this might be too advanced for a beginner like you, but I'll try anyway. There is this mastery you can unlock called Parry. Using this, you can stun you opponents if you block basic hits in a certain interval. And as the game is designed, heavy attacks are also basic hits. So if you block a heavy attack at the perfect time, you can stun the opponent.
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    Average_Desi said:

    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    Grub88 said:

    BringPopcorn said:

    This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

    Are you going to explain that or just make statements
    I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?
    Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

    Just as delusional as ever

    Also I did half your job for you!
    Ok, this might be too advanced for a beginner like you, but I'll try anyway. There is this mastery you can unlock called Parry. Using this, you can stun you opponents if you block basic hits in a certain interval. And as the game is designed, heavy attacks are also basic hits. So if you block a heavy attack at the perfect time, you can stun the opponent.
    Well done you can read, now go back in the thread and find where I was the first one to point out that a heavy attack is a basic attack. Don’t hurt your brain while your at it
  • Grub88Grub88 Member Posts: 360 ★★★
    Childish_Almino said:

    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Squidopus said:

    Grub88 said:

    Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

    I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

    Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

    It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.
    If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different
    Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.
    The code would have to determine if it is one or the other
    • if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
    • if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
    • and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block
    It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

    Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

    Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is
    With the statement „all well-timed block are blocks but not all blocks are well-timed blocks“ you can see that the well-timed blocks are a subset as they cannot exist without the block feature, meanwhile blocking can exist without parry.

    Here is some AI to explain it to you so I don’t have to

    “A subset is a set whose elements are contained within another set. In other words, a set A is a subset of another set B if all elements of the set A are elements of the set B. This means that the set A is contained inside the set B.

    For example, if we have a set A = {1, 2, 3} and a set B = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5}, then A is a subset of B because all elements of A are also elements of B.”

    So while block can be a subset of well-timed block because well-timed block contains all the elements of block, well-timed block can’t be a subset of block because well-timed block contains elements that block does not have I.e. parry

    Why we are talking about subsets is still beyond me, I highly doubt that the block interactions are programmed in anyway that relates to subsets
  • Chuck_FinleyChuck_Finley Member Posts: 1,208 ★★★★★
    Have been parry stunned on heavies in BG’s and even got heavy parried in Arena this morning. Super fun interaction.

    Any time I get parried in BG’s - 9 times out of 10 my defender was nuked and I was losing on time anyway. Right or wrong - I feel like it’s the AI just putting me out of my misery sooner.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,443 ★★★
    Grub88 said:

    Brought it up in march, no response. No where does the stand your ground mastery say it is a well-timed block and the parry mastery specifically says "if contact is made by a basic attack, inflict a stun debuff" which a heavy is not a basic attack as far as I am aware. This to me is a bug that has been in the game a long time now

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/363301/parried-on-heavy-resist#latest

    It's not that stand your ground is an auto block, it's that they perfectly timed a block to parry, stand your ground activated on the heavy hit and parried it.

    All non special attacks are basic attacks, even evade counterattacks
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