Alliance wars

ETNETN Member Posts: 4 ★
in General Discussion
These wars are ridiculous. Same impossible to fight champs all over : same 6 champs. This is nonsense. They either need to grant way more points for diversity to entice a change or even penalties when more than 3 champs of the same are in. Like 10k loss if you put more than 3 of the same champ.
There seriously need to be a change and something needs to be done or we will literally end up fighting a whole Onslaught team.
Ridiculous

Comments

  • GrabmeMCOCGrabmeMCOC Member Posts: 178 ★★
    Would a defender ban help you? Maybe 1 per AW? Would that settle you down a little?
  • ETNETN Member Posts: 4 ★
    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    I see your point but that works as long as you HAVE the counters. And knowing the way the game gives you champs, that is not happening.
  • ETNETN Member Posts: 4 ★
    GrabmeMCOC said:

    Would a defender ban help you? Maybe 1 per AW? Would that settle you down a little?

    Ban champs is ridiculous just as your way of not rewarding diversity enough nor penalizing repeats. Try again ****
  • Wakandas_FinestWakandas_Finest Member Posts: 873 ★★★★
    Definitely a low tier war issue but understandable because players on lower tiers generally have less diverse rosters and they also tend to rank up the same 6-10 champs as everyone else on their level because of the tier lists floating around.

    Diversity already accounts for more points than attack bonus and isn’t an issue in higher tier wars so Kabam is unlikely to make that kind of scoring change since they’d have to change it for all.
  • ETNETN Member Posts: 4 ★
    edited March 30
    Wakandas_Finest said:

    Definitely a low tier war issue but understandable because players on lower tiers generally have less diverse rosters and they also tend to rank up the same 6-10 champs as everyone else on their level because of the tier lists floating around.

    Diversity already accounts for more points than attack bonus and isn’t an issue in higher tier wars so Kabam is unlikely to make that kind of scoring change since they’d have to change it for all.

    I see your point. But basing the rules on the 1% is literally what is **** up the world all around. So even though it is ruining it for 99%, let’s just do in game just like irw. Why bother for the 99% anyways right ?
  • SkyfawSkyfaw Member Posts: 243 ★★
    ETN said:

    These wars are ridiculous. Same impossible to fight champs all over : same 6 champs. This is nonsense. They either need to grant way more points for diversity to entice a change or even penalties when more than 3 champs of the same are in. Like 10k loss if you put more than 3 of the same champ.
    There seriously need to be a change and something needs to be done or we will literally end up fighting a whole Onslaught team.
    Ridiculous

    They’re already penalized for having dupes of the same defender already. They fixed that issue a long time ago. Think the math on it was if I remember correctly, you get 270pts per diverse defender and 260 for full AB. So even if that duped defender manages to get at least 3 kills (anymore then that doesn’t matter) they’ll still lose more points from not having full diversity. So it’s never worth it. If you guys are losing with such an advantage it’s definitely on yall not getting it done.
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 6,144 ★★★★★
    Skyfaw said:

    ETN said:

    These wars are ridiculous. Same impossible to fight champs all over : same 6 champs. This is nonsense. They either need to grant way more points for diversity to entice a change or even penalties when more than 3 champs of the same are in. Like 10k loss if you put more than 3 of the same champ.
    There seriously need to be a change and something needs to be done or we will literally end up fighting a whole Onslaught team.
    Ridiculous

    They’re already penalized for having dupes of the same defender already. They fixed that issue a long time ago. Think the math on it was if I remember correctly, you get 270pts per diverse defender and 260 for full AB. So even if that duped defender manages to get at least 3 kills (anymore then that doesn’t matter) they’ll still lose more points from not having full diversity. So it’s never worth it. If you guys are losing with such an advantage it’s definitely on yall not getting it done.
    It’s 270 for full attack bonus (90x3). So getting max kills evens out to having a unique defenders.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    edited March 30
    No alliance places any duplicates at all once at a certain level of progression in the War Rating system - your alliance hasn't progressed there yet is all
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    edited March 30
    But! If you have any questions regarding troublesome placement - there are a lot of us here to offer advice
    Take your opponents duplicates and turn the tables on them by proving to them it's a flawed strategy
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    ETN said:

    These wars are ridiculous. Same impossible to fight champs all over : same 6 champs. This is nonsense. They either need to grant way more points for diversity to entice a change or even penalties when more than 3 champs of the same are in. Like 10k loss if you put more than 3 of the same champ.
    There seriously need to be a change and something needs to be done or we will literally end up fighting a whole Onslaught team.
    Ridiculous

    As for a whole map of Onslaught.. this would be my response

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,125 ★★★★★
    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    edited March 30
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well

    The issue is that lower tier alliances are weighting the difficulty of certain defenders too much and banking on it causing an issue - the solution: learn to beat these defenders at even a 1/3 bonus and you've won that point exchange.. from there you'll eventually progress to a War Rating bracket that doesn't employ this method of defense.. or, you'll win against alliances who do.. win/win
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,125 ★★★★★
    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well
    How many times is that the deciding factor of the War?
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well
    How many times is that the deciding factor of the War?
    I sincerely don't understand the question
    No one we face uses duplicates, therefore it's impossible to answer that question?
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 7,814 ★★★★★
    Man wth is this post lol...
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    Idk.. I just saw a post having to do with AW and had to open it:)
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 8,363 Guardian
    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well
    How many times is that the deciding factor of the War?
    If you're exploring the whole map and you have perfect diversity, you'll win just about 100% of wars if their diversity is trash. For example: the war I'm in right now, they have 7 enchantress on the map. I fought 3 of them and died to none of them. That is the equivalent of 6 perfect wins in terms of points because they lost 540 points per enchantress I soloed. If they had perfect diversity, they would have only lost 270 points per champion.

    The whole reason why low tier places dupes of annoying champions is because they either don't care, or they are making the map as miserable as possible for the opponent in hopes they don't beat your boss.

    Where my alliance sits in wars, (like tier 9) wars are typically decided by whoever takes out a boss since no one cares to do war in this tier and we just have defenders for free loyalty at this point.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well
    How many times is that the deciding factor of the War?
    If you're exploring the whole map and you have perfect diversity, you'll win just about 100% of wars if their diversity is trash. For example: the war I'm in right now, they have 7 enchantress on the map. I fought 3 of them and died to none of them. That is the equivalent of 6 perfect wins in terms of points because they lost 540 points per enchantress I soloed. If they had perfect diversity, they would have only lost 270 points per champion.

    The whole reason why low tier places dupes of annoying champions is because they either don't care, or they are making the map as miserable as possible for the opponent in hopes they don't beat your boss.

    Where my alliance sits in wars, (like tier 9) wars are typically decided by whoever takes out a boss since no one cares to do war in this tier and we just have defenders for free loyalty at this point.
    Right, with the use of essentially free (1 Loyalty) revives.. you can technically clear any map and win.. it would just take effort haha
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,125 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Furrymoosen said:

    Putting a duplicate champ is essentially the equivalent of giving your opponent three free attack bonuses. If your opponent has a bunch of duplicates, they're already putting you at a significant advantage if you have full diversity.
    On top of that, a defense with less variation in champions means that less counters are required, which overall can actually make AW easier, especially if a lot of your teammates have counters for those champs. Onslaught is a pain, but he has counters and there aren't too many nodes that make him much worse than he is on any given day.
    The way AW is setup, a lack of diversity sets an alliance up to fail, but if you still can't beat them then you deserve to lose.

    That's the problem. Anything outside of top Wars, and Diversity isn't a tie-breaker. There is no Diversity now. Same few Champs that have been littered through the Map. I mean, it's helpful in a sense because you become really good at fighting them, but it's so monotonous now.
    I wouldn't say "at the top" my alliance is nowhere near the top lol.. and I feel there are several levels below us that use full diversity as well
    How many times is that the deciding factor of the War?
    If you're exploring the whole map and you have perfect diversity, you'll win just about 100% of wars if their diversity is trash. For example: the war I'm in right now, they have 7 enchantress on the map. I fought 3 of them and died to none of them. That is the equivalent of 6 perfect wins in terms of points because they lost 540 points per enchantress I soloed. If they had perfect diversity, they would have only lost 270 points per champion.

    The whole reason why low tier places dupes of annoying champions is because they either don't care, or they are making the map as miserable as possible for the opponent in hopes they don't beat your boss.

    Where my alliance sits in wars, (like tier 9) wars are typically decided by whoever takes out a boss since no one cares to do war in this tier and we just have defenders for free loyalty at this point.
    It's the same here in Tier 8 or 7, but that's half the problem. People spam the same Defenders. It's not an enjoyable experience. My guys have all but lost the interest in playing. Unfortunately that's one of the problems with the War setup. You have 20 Tiers, and the vast majority of changes have centered around the top.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,125 ★★★★★
    No one wants to keep playing the same Champs 3 times a week.
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,393 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    No one wants to keep playing the same Champs 3 times a week.

    The idea is that you win said wars.. and then advance in the system?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 37,125 ★★★★★
    edited March 30
    hungryhungrybbq said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    No one wants to keep playing the same Champs 3 times a week.

    The idea is that you win said wars.. and then advance in the system?
    With an Alliance that can fill one BG, and half of them are losing interest, that's the point. Their concerns at Tier 7 and 8 are not invalid just because the point is to win. I'm sure everyone is aware that's the point of War.
    Regardless, I don't know what the solution is. I could think of one if I spent time, but I'm more or less affirming that is the experience at the moment. 3 and 4 Bullseyes, Serpents, Enchantresses, and Onslaughts. Throw a few others in there.
    You lose interest after a while.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 7,814 ★★★★★
    Sp give up before trying?..
    You see same multiple defenders and just clearing the nodes is basically an automatic win, unless you lose ABs on every other node lol...
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